In the aftermath of her death, I've been reading the comments by many, not here, about how Amy was not in the "same league" as the 'Forever 27' club.
And why is Cobain accepted on that list and not her? Both came long after the exalted trifecta of Jimi, Janis, Morrison...not to mention Brian, Robert Johnson etc...but Cobain seems to be included on that list.
Why the hell not Amy Winehouse?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 04:25 by stupidguy2.

Because he was a leading figure in the whole Seattle Grunge movement that reinvigorated the entire music scene and he had a far bigger impact than Amy did.

You have good insight to picking a screen name.

'deleted post' I got the pun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 04:45 by whitem8.

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whitem8
Because he was a leading figure in the whole Seattle Grunge movement that reinvigorated the entire music scene and he had a far bigger impact than Amy did.

Ahh, but for whom? I liked Nirvana, appreciate Cobain's gifts as a songwriter, but Pearl Jam, Soundgarden etc... transcended the "movement". To me, the impact is more narrow outside its own time, place, genre.
Winehouse appealed to many people through her ability to make you feel what she was singing, like people who were moved decades ago by Billie Holliday - and her lyrics, edgy phrasing is so distinctively her own. She is mistakenly lumped into this whole retro thing.....but she turned that into something modern and original. Two complete albums, various EPs, demos, live radio performances...the shortened production of work is not so different than Cobain.
It would be harder to measure her impact as opposed to Cobain's, because there were so many Nirvana wannabees who wrote nihilistic lyrics.....and many were better, like Pearl Jam, Chris Cornell....
But even of the best of the current crop of soul artists who get likened to AW, no one comes close. It wasn't just a musical thing, popularity thing, it was an Amy Winehouse thing. My 50-year old sister loved her music. Nirvana was Emily Dickinson with a Marshall. He didn't invent morbidity in art. He just cranked it out on a guitar and recycled early Beatle-esque chord progressions and turned it up to 11.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 04:54 by stupidguy2.

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whitem8
Meaning what?

I'm sure he meant mine, as in Stupidguy...Ha Ha, get it?
And I often agree with Sicilian, but I digress.
Still didn't get an answer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 04:46 by stupidguy2.

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whitem8
Because he was a leading figure in the whole Seattle Grunge movement that reinvigorated the entire music scene and he had a far bigger impact than Amy did.

And she is the singer that inspired a whole raft of British female singers such as Duffy and Adele who have hit it big and are inspiring other British female singers such as Rumer etc.

Check out this article on the rise in British female singers and how it is directly attributed to the success of Back To Black:

[entertainment.timesonline.co.uk]

I know they are saying that the trend is/was coming to an end but the same thing happened with grunge and if Amy had got to release a third album she may have sparked things once again.

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whitem8
Meaning what?

I didn't quote you so it was meant for the author. What is means is that his screen name is as silly as the question posed in the topic. Nothing personal, just a hokey contrast.

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SoulPlunderer

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whitem8
Because he was a leading figure in the whole Seattle Grunge movement that reinvigorated the entire music scene and he had a far bigger impact than Amy did.

I know they are saying that the trend is/was coming to an end but the same thing happened with grunge and if Amy had got to release a third album she may have sparked things once again.

Exactly,
I just don't get why some so easily dismiss her legacy. I used Cobain as a comparison because as a post-80s artist, his legend seems so easily accepted along with the greats. And I don't see the disparity of the two. Is it because AW's music was more commercially acceptable, more accessable as opposed to Cobain and his box of pain? He wore his morose-ness on his flannel sleeve and pontificated on his disdain of fame....when he posed for countless magazine covers...
AW had those same misgivings about fame and she retreated into a private turmoil...she didn't whine about it, she played it off and put it into her music..
I could argue that she was a more authentic 'tortured artist' with all the hyperbole that entails....but it just less self-concious to me as opposed to KC.
And this is from someone who memorized In Utero, and rejected AW's retro stylings for a long time. I grew out of one, and opened my eyes to the other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 05:05 by stupidguy2.

Sure it comes to different tastes. But at the end of the day Nirvana was much more of an international phenomena than Amy...not saying either is better, just that Cobain has far more impact internationally and commercially than Amy did.

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whitem8
Sure it comes to different tastes. But at the end of the day Nirvana was much more of an international phenomena than Amy...not saying either is better, just that Cobain has far more impact internationally and commercially than Amy did.

Then I'll say it for you, Nirvana was and is 100% better than Amy Winehouse ever was.

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whitem8
Sure it comes to different tastes. But at the end of the day Nirvana was much more of an international phenomena than Amy...not saying either is better, just that Cobain has far more impact internationally and commercially than Amy did.

I was actually going to make the same argument for AW....
It could be argued, but we have no numbers or tangible evidence in favor of neither....
I will say this also:
I think people respond more to artists on a visceral level. To me, Nirvana was like a car wreck that you were morbidly fascinated by. If people get off on songs about hating everything, that's cool. But I never found any passion in Cobain's delivery, just angsty snarkiness and condescension toward anything outside his own narrow looking point, like he existed in a vaccuum. When you're a depressed 15-year old, that can be liberating. ANd it can also get old. I remember Mick's comment about Nirvana and what he though about them, he said something to the effect of "too negative..."
Outside of devotees, his music was not relatable to mass audiences. The persona might have inspired mass imitation, but lyrically, Cobain's lyrics were too esoteric to inspire beyond cold, dark rainy days where life just sucks.
ANd you're right, it has much to do with personal preference. Because despite her own troubles, AW sang with a real urgency, and lyrics like:
'Life is like a pipe,
and I'm a tiny penny rolling up the walls inside...'
are just as angsty and self-loathing as anything Cobain ever wrote. But they were delivered in a more musically empowering way, not sniveling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 05:19 by stupidguy2.

Sorry but there is no way that Amy Winehouse outsold and played to larger crowds than Nirvana. No way.

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whitem8
Sorry but there is no way that Amy Winehouse outsold and played to larger crowds than Nirvana. No way.

Not saying that. Nirvana was a bunch of guys who played really loud music. That's always going to be massive internationally.
I don't mean marketability, but relatability.

ALso don't agree with that. Nirvana had far more of an international impact on the youth. Creating an entire movement of Grunge. Styles of hair, clothing, it was a phenomena on a much grander scale than anything AMy did. She sold well and had success, but no where near the influence that Nirvana had on the music industry and the youth.

Like Hendrix, Amy Winehouse had real soul.
I don't believe in lumping dead people together. As though they weren't individuals.

Very good point stonesrule!

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whitem8
ALso don't agree with that. Nirvana had far more of an international impact on the youth. Creating an entire movement of Grunge. Styles of hair, clothing, it was a phenomena on a much grander scale than anything AMy did. She sold well and had success, but no where near the influence that Nirvana had on the music industry and the youth.

But that's style, and it faded. Their music is still stuck very much in its time.
But I also agree with Stonesrule,
Perhaps I'm making it all too acadmic, something I despise about critics. But I only wanted to make a case for AW as respectable addition to our pantheon of greats who died at a young age. Funny thing is, Cobain might have really dug AW.

Cobain and Nirvana started a whole movement in music and whether you were into that genre or not, you knew it was having a big impact on popular music and you could not help but know their music and that of the bands they had influenced. Whinehouse made more headlines for her addiction issues than her music; not to disrepsect her nor the dead but I have no idea what she actually recorded other than her song: going to rehab. I saw a video on MSN.com before she died and it was truly sad that she went on stage that way and was boo'd off the stage and then she was gone a couple of weeks later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 08:41 by georgeV.

I've been reading the comments by many, not here, about how Amy was not in the "same league" as the 'Forever 27' club.

There will always be sorry-assed persons who's not having a clue of what is genuin talent in music writing shit...Amy should have waited and joined The 86-club instead..would have been her and Anita O'Day in that one....

2 1 2 0

If Kurt Cobain can be mentioned with Hendrix then so can the Spice Girls.

The grunge movemet has been pretty much the last "revolutionary" movement in rock music so far. Sure, not that revolutionary as rock'n'roll in the fifties,not as The Beatles, The Stones and others in the sixties, but still... Nirvana was a leader and the main creator of grunge.

I absolutely don't agree thar Pearl Jam and Soundgarden "transcended" the movement, as stupidguy2 states. At that time it was Nirvana and all those other bands followed. Sure, they were big, but Nirvana was the true leader. I was a teenager at that time and remember it very well. Pearl Jam today are very well operating band, great live act, but they are a kind of "dinosaurus" too. No revolution any more. Nothing wrong with that,it is a natural process that any lon-lasting band goes throught. But that doesn't mean they transcended the movement.

Amy was an extremely talented girl, a rare appearance in today's showbussines, a true artist. She was original, but not revolutionary. I am not saying she deserves less attention than Cobain or anyone else, not at all. Just trying to explain the difference I see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 15:41 by Happy24.

Amy was an extremely talented girl, a rare appearance in today's showbussines, a true artist

..and to the people that not can see this: spend your time on golf instead of music...

2 1 2 0

Did she inspire Duffy and others or did the record companies see a 'trend' and just tried to cash in?

The 27 Club is not open to new members. There are only four.

Agree with FreeBird. Also, it seems kind of morbid to try to add people to this misfortunate club. Plus this all happened in 1970, minus Brian. However, I can understand saying it's strange these famous people died at the same age. That's the only similarity I see. Sidenote, hasn't it been said Cobain is as great as John Lennon? No offense to him or his fans but I don't see it. Maybe just a generation gap.

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The GR
Did she inspire Duffy and others or did the record companies see a 'trend' and just tried to cash in?

Probably both...

Record companies were looking for the new Elvis & the new Beatles (etc), but many artists were inspired by these anyway.

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whitem8
ALso don't agree with that. Nirvana had far more of an international impact on the youth. Creating an entire movement of Grunge. Styles of hair, clothing, it was a phenomena on a much grander scale than anything AMy did. She sold well and had success, but no where near the influence that Nirvana had on the music industry and the youth.

Nirvana - or any other Seattle band - didn't invent 'grunge'. The term is in tandem with 'sounds like shit' and pre-dates any music from the 1990s in Washington. Those bands were anything and everything but grunge. And, like the Stones after they got over trying to out do The Beatles, they wore what they wore. They didn't invent anything. That look already existed all over the cold territories. Hell, in New England people dress like that. It's not specific.

What if all of those bands were from Alaska? It would be whatever they would wear up there and it would be called moose rock or some shit.

And so on.

Amy, like Kurt, was a true genuine talent. Robert Johnson didn't sell out any arenas. So in this case size does not matter. Quantity has nothing to do with it. It might help in terms of 'how big are they' and all that. Everyone knew about Kurt's issues; Amy's issues were a bit more private. At least it seemed that way to me. I could be wrong.

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frankotero
Agree with FreeBird. Also, it seems kind of morbid to try to add people to this misfortunate club. Plus this all happened in 1970, minus Brian. However, I can understand saying it's strange these famous people died at the same age. That's the only similarity I see. Sidenote, hasn't it been said Cobain is as great as John Lennon? No offense to him or his fans but I don't see it. Maybe just a generation gap.

Cobain being compared to John Lennon is the biggest bunch of bull ever.

Cobain = a few moments of brilliance and killed himself.
Lennon = a career of brilliance and was murdered.

"No Anchovies, Please"

The Elephant Man was also 27 when he died...