The recent Beach Boys thread, with its tangential links to Sgt. Pepper stuff, got me to thinking...

Just think if George Martin could've overridden Brian Eptein's objections and included the "first" Sgt. Pepper session songs--Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane--on that album. An already stunning album becomes somehow...beyond amazing.

This type of situation seems to apply almost exclusively to 60's era groups back when the single was considered a somewhat standalone commodity apart from an album.

Tying this back to the Stones...imagine a Beggar's Banquet with a Jumpin' Jack Flash or a Let it Bleed album with a Honky Tonk Woman. Wow. The inclusion of those songs make those "seminal" albums just off-the-charts great. Hindsight being 20-20...they should've done this.

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rocker1
Tying this back to the Stones...imagine a Beggar's Banquet with a Jumpin' Jack Flash or a Let it Bleed album with a Honky Tonk Woman. Wow. The inclusion of those songs make those "seminal" albums just off-the-charts great. Hindsight being 20-20...they should've done this.

Yes, I agree 100%. Does anyone know the story behind why these songs weren't included on those albums? Was it just because singles weren't considered 'part of' an album back then, or was there some other reason? Because even previous albums like Aftermath and Between The Buttons had the singles included on at least some releases of the album.

Originally, the concept was to make an album about their childhood and Liverpool...but as with so many of their ideas it ran out of steam. And they wanted something out immediately and only had Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane ready. They worked long and hard on those two, with Lennon in his obsessive mode, going over SFF over and over again. And yes, Brian was not a fan. He felt the entire thing slipping away from him, and the psychedelia and more introspective writing had no place for a handler or manager.

Albums that could have been. Lifehouse by The Who. What an album that would have been. They had just released a double album, so their management wasn't too keen on another entire double album, and Pete's close friend Kit Lambert just didn't get it and thought Townshend's idea was off the wall. So what was Who's Next and a lot from Odds and Sods would have made the double album.

The Stones, Live '72. What a shame they didn't release that. ABCKO corruption made the stones shelve it...I love the cover for that one, the concert poster of Jagger dancing. Lovely.

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rocker1
The recent Beach Boys thread, with its tangential links to Sgt. Pepper stuff, got me to thinking...

Just think if George Martin could've overridden Brian Eptein's objections and included the "first" Sgt. Pepper session songs--Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane--on that album. An already stunning album becomes somehow...beyond amazing.

This type of situation seems to apply almost exclusively to 60's era groups back when the single was considered a somewhat standalone commodity apart from an album.

Tying this back to the Stones...imagine a Beggar's Banquet with a Jumpin' Jack Flash or a Let it Bleed album with a Honky Tonk Woman. Wow. The inclusion of those songs make those "seminal" albums just off-the-charts great. Hindsight being 20-20...they should've done this.

With that thought in mind....try to imagine Aftermath with "Paint It Black" as the lead track....that alone makes a seminal album off the charts great!

Oh wait. They already did it. On the U.S. version. The better Aftermath...

I think most 60s albums (Beatles, Stones, Kinks, The Who, Beach Boys, Dylan, Pretty Things & many others) could've been improved by the addition of singles.

Actually, I like the whole idea popular in the 60's with "unique" singles not included on the albums. That's the way it should be. There really is no greater format than the vinyl single -- play one side and flip it over. That said, I also appreciate EP:s. Four great songs. Neat and concise. Oh yeah.

I feel that one too many an album suffers from exaggerated length: especially since the introduction of CD. The ideal, as I see it, is propably like eight songs clocking in at a total, say, 35 to 40 minutes. Short and effective. That's the way I dig it.

I had been kind of hoping that when the Beatles remasters were released a couple years ago, instead of collecting all the stray non-album tracks on "Past Masters", they would make those tracks bonus tracks on the albums their original release date comes closest to. For instance, Paperback Writer and Rain could have been bonus tracks tacked onto the end of Revolver.

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loog droog
With that thought in mind....try to imagine Aftermath with "Paint It Black" as the lead track....that alone makes a seminal album off the charts great!

Oh wait. They already did it. On the U.S. version. The better Aftermath...

Yeah, that was a blunder, but how much can one fit? Me, I prefer and own the British release. FAR better, more tracks.

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Sleepy City
I think most 60s albums (Beatles, Stones, Kinks, The Who, Beach Boys, Dylan, Pretty Things & many others) could've been improved by the addition of singles.

What I found annoying is the ditching of good tracks in favor of a single. Case in point, "FWiW" replacing "Baby Don't Scold Me" on Buffalo Springfield's first. How about putting BOTH on it?

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tatters
I had been kind of hoping that when the Beatles remasters were released a couple years ago, instead of collecting all the stray non-album tracks on "Past Masters", they would make those tracks bonus tracks on the albums their original release date comes closest to. For instance, Paperback Writer and Rain could have been bonus tracks tacked onto the end of Revolver.

Yeah....but, the problem is with "bonus" tracks is that most of the time there is no separation between them and the album proper.

For that matter, I wish companies had built in a little more space between songs that appeared on different vinyl sides. Coming to the end of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" and going instantly into "Here Comes The Sun" robs the abrupt ending of the first song of it's power. There's no time to digest the sudden stop, with the "intermission" between the end of side one and the first song on side two no longer existing on CD.

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Turdontherun
Actually, I like the whole idea popular in the 60's with "unique" singles not included on the albums. That's the way it should be. There really is no greater format than the vinyl single -- play one side and flip it over. That said, I also appreciate EP:s. Four great songs. Neat and concise. Oh yeah.

I really wish The Rolling Stones had continued releasing non-album singles after they left Decca. That way they could've still been considered a "singles" act, just as Paul McCartney & Cliff Richard (often) continued to be.

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Sleepy City

I really wish The Rolling Stones had continued releasing non-album singles after they left Decca.

Awhile back I was thinking how interesting it would have been if they had released "Hot Stuff" as a single during the TOTA in '75. It could have been included as a "new" track on Made In The Shade, and given the '75 tour it's own identity with an up-to-the-minute hit signaling a new R&B direction as well as giving the fans a memorable summer soundtrack

Although I do not have the source handy, I recall reading something Mick said that the idea of not including the single on the LP was people would have been buying it twice, feeling ripped off.

Which doesn't add up to having a hits album - if they own the singles, they still buy them again if they buy Through The Past Darkly (at the time, of course). That's OK to do instead of having it on Beggars (JJF) or Bleed (HTW)? Very poor logic. But great logic for selling a hits album!

It is unique that there were some LPs without the big singles. But can anyone imagine Sticky Fingers without Brown Sugar? Or Exile without Tumbling Dice? Tattoo You without Start Me Up?

Fortunately one can put the singles on those albums nowadays, and with Let It Bleed being a perfect example, not only Honky Tonk Women but Jiving Sister Fanny and I Don't Know Why. Beggars can have the other songs that were done for it and so on.

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DragonSky
Although I do not have the source handy, I recall reading something Mick said that the idea of not including the single on the LP was people would have been buying it twice, feeling ripped off.

Which doesn't add up to having a hits album - if they own the singles, they still buy them again if they buy Through The Past Darkly (at the time, of course). That's OK to do instead of having it on Beggars (JJF) or Bleed (HTW)? Very poor logic. But great logic for selling a hits album!

The big difference of course is that real fans already had everything on the hits albums, so didn't need to buy them if they didn't want them...that was until albums such '40 Licks' started ripping people off, instead of releasing the 4 new songs on 2 singles or an EP.

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loog droog

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tatters
I had been kind of hoping that when the Beatles remasters were released a couple years ago, instead of collecting all the stray non-album tracks on "Past Masters", they would make those tracks bonus tracks on the albums their original release date comes closest to. For instance, Paperback Writer and Rain could have been bonus tracks tacked onto the end of Revolver.

Yeah....but, the problem is with "bonus" tracks is that most of the time there is no separation between them and the album proper.

For that matter, I wish companies had built in a little more space between songs that appeared on different vinyl sides. Coming to the end of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" and going instantly into "Here Comes The Sun" robs the abrupt ending of the first song of it's power. There's no time to digest the sudden stop, with the "intermission" between the end of side one and the first song on side two no longer existing on CD.

On most of the CDs I've heard that have bonus tracks, there is the kind of separation you're talking about. A few extra seconds of silence, letting the listener know that this is where the original album ends and this is where the bonus material begins. But I almost never hear that same kind of separation between album sides. It would be nice if there were a few seconds of silence, equal to the amount of time it would take to flip the record over. This has a lot to do with our own baby boomer nostalgia. We want to experience the music the way we heard it when we were kids. But also the artists themselves, post-1967, at least, probably did think in terms, not just of albums as a whole, but also of album sides as distinct entities with well-thought-out beginnings and endings. And, as you say, that's something that's unfortunately been lost in the compact disc era, just as the idea of "albums" will soon disappear altogether as more and more people just want to download individual songs.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-28 02:24 by tatters.

Where would JJF fit on Beggars Banquet..... It's perfect as it is.

Albums are way too long nowadays............ABB would have made a nice EP !

sc uk

i did my own cdr of all decca cd's with singles & ep's as bonus.and the metamorphosis tracks (not the a.l.o orch trax.)

Personally, I prefer singles to be unique releases. The Stones were a fabulous singles-act throughout the 60's. Jumpin' Jack Flash doesn't belong on Beggars Banquet. If some of those great 45's appeared on the Stones long player's, it would have diminished the importance of the single. The single used to reign supreme. It wish it still did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-28 14:02 by Big Al.

I think Miss You would've made a great single only track. It never really fit on SG, & it would've been even more successful.

I totally agree with putting the singles on the appropriate era album. Putting Child of the Moon, Dandelion, We Love You on TSMR would have made it a stud instead of a dud. Putting JJF on Beggar's Banquet would have made the album even better. Same with Let it Bleed having HTW.

I agree with all the Beatle albums having the singles on there also. Lady Madonna & Hey Jude on The White Album. Paperback & Rain would have made Revolver even more spectacular as would SFF and Penny Lane on SPLHCB instead of Magical Mystery Tour. But what would you do with Magical Mystery Tour, I Am the Walrus, Blue Jay Way, Flying, All You Need is Love & Baby You're a Rich Man just let it be an EP or combined it with the 3 Yellow Submarine tracks (Hey Bulldog, It's All Too Much, Only a Northern Song). I think the latter would have been fine and separate the album from the 2 movies.

The next Lynyrd Skynyrd album.

They had grown musically so much with Street Survivors and the addition of Steve Gaines was a huge plus as a writer, singer, and player.

stonesrule may have some more insight into this.

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bigmac7895
But what would you do with Magical Mystery Tour, I Am the Walrus, Blue Jay Way, Flying, All You Need is Love & Baby You're a Rich Man just let it be an EP or combined it with the 3 Yellow Submarine tracks (Hey Bulldog, It's All Too Much, Only a Northern Song). I think the latter would have been fine and separate the album from the 2 movies.

The Magical Mystery Tour LP (as released in the USA at the time) was a great round-up of all the "spare" 1967 tracks...& there were 4 new songs on the YS album (you forgot All Together Now).

Is it true that SFF and PL were originally slated for Sgt Pepper? If so, they would have totally elevated the album. While Magical Mystery Tour is a fun listen, songs like the aforementioned 2 are almost too good to be on it. I'd have loved to have seen MMT as an EP and Sgt Pepper including SFF and PL in place of, say, 'Good Morning Good Morning' and 'She's Leaving Home'. Then the album really WOULD have lived up to its reputation, which I think is often overrated due to its ratio of filler to actual great songs.

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rocker1
The recent Beach Boys thread, with its tangential links to Sgt. Pepper stuff, got me to thinking...

Just think if George Martin could've overridden Brian Eptein's objections and included the "first" Sgt. Pepper session songs--Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane--on that album. An already stunning album becomes somehow...beyond amazing.

This type of situation seems to apply almost exclusively to 60's era groups back when the single was considered a somewhat standalone commodity apart from an album.

Tying this back to the Stones...imagine a Beggar's Banquet with a Jumpin' Jack Flash or a Let it Bleed album with a Honky Tonk Woman. Wow. The inclusion of those songs make those "seminal" albums just off-the-charts great. Hindsight being 20-20...they should've done this.

It wasn't so much Epstein's "objections", it was that it had been ages since their last single and they needed to put something out, so they "sacrificed" those two tracks. In those days it was considered not good value to put singles that were alreay purchased by fans on albums, so hence these were left off Sgt. Pepper, "Hey Jude" was not on the White Album, etc. My, how times have changed.

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71Tele

It wasn't so much Epstein's "objections", it was that it had been ages since their last single and they needed to put something out.

It had been six months, which was considered "ages" in the record business of the 1960s.

How we think today and how it was then are very different mind-sets.

Elmo brought up Skynyrd and certainly there have been a number of artists who died before their time. In a sad, strange way I have always felt the same about Jimi Hendrix and Ronnie Van Zant, Against all odds, each of them accomplished so much in a short time. Really rather miraculous. And consoling to some degree. They got what they wanted, and so few people do.

Through sheer will and determination, they each proved themselves to be worthy of that mis-used word -- artist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-29 00:36 by stonesrule.

Just think if George Martin could've overridden Brian Eptein's objections and included the "first" Sgt. Pepper session songs--Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane--on that album. An already stunning album becomes somehow...beyond amazing.

..with 'Tell Me' as track no 1 on 'Their Satanic Majesties Request' it would have been a top-album...

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