The Irish Times - Saturday, February 26, 2011

Faithfull has spent a long time avoiding talking about her five-year relationship with Mick Jagger. If she did speak about him, the conversation was often pierced with thinly veiled barbs. While she says she doesn’t have a nostalgic bone in her body, she finds herself looking back at the relationship more fondly now. “I’ve got much better recently. I realised that we had a really wonderful time. It was really creative. He helped me learn my lines for my roles in The Three Sisters and Hamlet and I helped write his songs . . . I couldn’t cope with his sexual freedom and infidelity but I see that more as my flaw. I was too young. If I’d been older, I am sure I would have been able to cope. He was the king of rock’n’roll and of course he was f**king every chick he could. He was a boy who just couldn’t say no, every man would do that if he could.”

Looking back, she says: “The sort of relationship we had, he couldn’t have with any of those chicks. Where we could sit down and write Sister Morphine together. Or I could show him a book, The Master and Margarita , and he could write Sympathy for the Devil . Where he could play Hamlet to my Ophelia. It was magic.”

What she always forgets, she says, is that they were so young. She was 19 and Jagger 21 when she left John Dunbar, with whom she had a son, Nicholas, to be with him. The Marianne Faithfull tabloid legend began in earnest when, during a drugs bust in 1967, she was found in Jagger’s company, naked except for a large fur rug. This incident spawned those nefarious and untrue Mars Bar rumours. She did not come out well from the press coverage. Instead of refuting her new reputation, she opted for a defiant embodiment of the ensuing broken, corrupting tabloid image.

The couple were in Australia together in 1969 when she took a deliberate overdose of sleeping pills and survived, after six days in a coma, inspiring a classic Stones song when she eventually woke. “I don’t remember but I believe Mick. He says he said ‘don’t go, don’t go’ and I said ‘wild horses couldn’t drag me away’. We were very poetic like that, very lyrical, living on a higher plane. We were young. You couldn’t do it older, maybe up to 24 then it becomes really stupid.”

When they split up in 1971, she “banished” him from her life. “I am unfortunately like that, I wish I wasn’t,” she sighs. “I am not like that now but I was. It’s so ego driven. You’ve hurt me so I banish you and the only person I hurt was me. There came a proper time after a few years where we really could have made friends and I wouldn’t have it.” They are friends again now. “We’ve forgiven ourselves a lot I think, Mick and I, we were so young,” she says.

[www.irishtimes.com]


What's going on? Marianne all of a sudden says nice things about Mick.

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proudmary
What's going on? Marianne all of a sudden says nice things about Mick.

There is nothing "all of a sudden" about this.
If you read the books that she wrote, and the books that are written about her, you will find lots of good thinks she has to say about Mick

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Keep On Rolling

Yeah, sorry Mary, but nothing new here. Marianne flip flops in her affection for Jagger and she's always talked "poetically" about that time...(his Hamlet to her Ophelia etc...) Marianne has always been melodramatic and very mindful of her persona.
It always comes off as slightly self-serving. She was his only muse, don't ever doubt it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-02 02:56 by stupidguy2.

That his todger is not as tiny as reported?

It's human nature to not want your lover making love to another, and to be there for YOU when you need him, young or old, rich or poor--no matter what profession! That's not a "flaw", as she calls it. They may have had a better chance if Mick took another line of work and had a chance at a lot less infidelity. It's water under the bridge. The main thing is that Marianne is coming to terms with it all and finally getting her much needed emotional healing. She had a rough run. Her road may be getting smoother and brighter.

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stupidguy2
Yeah, sorry Mary, but nothing new here. Marianne flip flops in her affection for Jagger and she's always talked "poetically" about that time...(his Hamlet to her Ophelia etc...) Marianne has always been melodramatic and very mindful of her persona.
It always comes off as slightly self-serving. She was his only muse, don't ever doubt it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-02 02:59 by stupidguy2.

In her 2007 book MEMORIES, DREAMS AND REFLECTIONS she's nice to Mick. (This book flew under the radar compared to her 2000 book FAITHFULL that got a lot more attention).

Two books? So now Jagger is the subject of six books from former loves?
Marsha Hunt, 2
Jerry Hall, 2
Marianne, 2
Oh, I know the books are about their lives, their art, their ...etc....
But its really all about Mick isn't it?

>But its really all about Mick isn't it?

No.

I have about 10 albums with Marianne Faithful, most of them very good musically... so she has done more than being a rock-stars chick..she deserves the same respect that Laurie Anderson have...or...

Here is the Marianne Faithful I saw in concert 1980..I stood right in front of her and she was just two big hands..so thin..but with powerful music..



2 1 2 0

Five year relationship? It was more two years, no? From 67 to mid 69.

She gets more annoying by the day. Nice words about Mick? No, it is all about aggrandising herself and overemphasising her role in his life. Without her, Mick would not have been embroiled in the disastrous court case, where he took the hit for her amphetamine tablets found in his jacket pocket (had she been wearing the jacket?). As to her being his literary guide, Mick was being sent books by the owner of a specialist book store, he didn't need her input. People tend to forget the absolute explosion of art, cinema, music and literature of those times, how accessible and accessed everything was.

In my estimation, Sister Morphine is one of the worst songs the Stones ever did; turgid, tuneless and melodramatic. She would have done us all a favour in NOT helping him write it, if indeed she did.

Since I have little doubt that Marianne will read this thread, hopefully she will do us all a favour, and get a clue.

Bliss, why bother to "contribute" to a thread about Marianne if you don't appreciate her? Just to bitch?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-02 09:25 by Glam Descendant.

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riverrat
It's human nature to not want your lover making love to another, and to be there for YOU when you need him, young or old, rich or poor--no matter what profession! That's not a "flaw", as she calls it.

That depends on what your values are; I think it's cool for a woman to see it as a flaw. But I doubt that it can help you much in relationships. It's the general involvement that counts most; sexuality is only a small part of that.

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Glam Descendant
Bliss, why bother to "contribute" to a thread about Marianne if you don't appreciate her? Just to bitch?

I was unaware that this was a 'Marianne Faithfull appreciation thread'.

I consider my contributions, based on my extensive knowledge of Stones history, to be of value, irrespective of my personal views.

Marianne speaks .................. zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz.

Dear o dear, when WILL this woman stop peddling her two cents worth (and dwindling) of recollections and memories and just fade away and get on with whatever else she wishes to do with her life, something that hopefully doesn't involve yet another rinse recycle of the same laundry ? She really is most tedious.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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Glam Descendant
Ignorance is Bliss!

Glam Descendant, are you implying that I am ignorant in general, or in particular with regard to Marianne Faithfull?

With regard to MF, I can assure you that I am indeed well-informed, having listened to a considerable amount of her music, read her first book plus the biography written about her, and a very large number of her interviews. Whilst you may not agree with my negative views of the merits of her work or her alleged contributions to the Stones, (views shared by others here), I can truthfully assert that they are definitely not based on a lack of awareness or understanding.

I liked Marianne F. It struck me that Courtney Love tried to mimic Marianne in her lifestyle in the same sense as Charlie Sheen thought he could out party Keith!!!!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-02 16:37 by ChrisO.

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proudmary
The Irish Times - Saturday, February 26, 2011

Faithfull has spent a long time avoiding talking about her five-year relationship with Mick Jagger

Yeah, two or three days?

- Doxa

She is so full of herself! Were her comments about Mick taken out of context? I hope so, because I think she sounds ridiculous if not.

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Bliss
She gets more annoying by the day. Nice words about Mick? No, it is all about aggrandising herself and overemphasising her role in his life. Without her, Mick would not have been embroiled in the disastrous court case, where he took the hit for her amphetamine tablets found in his jacket pocket (had she been wearing the jacket?). As to her being his literary guide, Mick was being sent books by the owner of a specialist book store, he didn't need her input. People tend to forget the absolute explosion of art, cinema, music and literature of those times, how accessible and accessed everything was.

In my estimation, Sister Morphine is one of the worst songs the Stones ever did; turgid, tuneless and melodramatic. She would have done us all a favour in NOT helping him write it, if indeed she did.

Since I have little doubt that Marianne will read this thread, hopefully she will do us all a favour, and get a clue.

I love this song, I'd say one of the best rather than one of the worst songs

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pgarof

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Bliss
In my estimation, Sister Morphine is one of the worst songs the Stones ever did; turgid, tuneless and melodramatic. She would have done us all a favour in NOT helping him write it, if indeed she did.

I love this song, I'd say one of the best rather than one of the worst songs

I'd say a classic Stones song with an original arrangement that is reasonably well performed on record. But as a song, for instance Dead Flowers is better.

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Bliss

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Glam Descendant
Bliss, why bother to "contribute" to a thread about Marianne if you don't appreciate her? Just to bitch?

I was unaware that this was a 'Marianne Faithfull appreciation thread'.

I consider my contributions, based on my extensive knowledge of Stones history, to be of value, irrespective of my personal views.

Ditto.
And Glam, its all mostly about Mick.
I flip flop about Marianne all the time. I want to like her, she can be witty, is intelligent....but then she'll annoy me again. Seriously, I'll read an interview with Marianne and Jerry Hall ain't so bad. Then Jerry Hall will annoy me and I think, 'She's no Marianne or Bianca...' so what to do?
MF's self-congratulatory ruminations of Life With Mick have amused me since I was 13 years old. They change with the wind, or her current state of mind. Because I was an obsessed Stones fan, I read everything about everybody connected to the Stones, like most of us here. We're all "experts".
Its actually refreshing to read critical observations of people like Marianne because for years, she's been a sort of Stones sacred cow who fans seemed to romanticize ...seemed to get off on the idea of some weary decadance, or the idea of it. The fragile waif eaten by the ravenous, hard-hearted Jagger or the mythical creature who left Jagger an empty shell of a man who could only forlornly seek some elusive romantic ideal with lesser women, a Muse who left Jagger an empty shell of an artist left only to go through the motions with some less worthy muse... the angel to his devil, the Ophelia to his Hamlet...only to be left ravaged by life, her own frailty.....etc....Please. It all seemed so flaky to me. How many times do I have to read that she, and only she, inspired Mick to create. His work suffered in her absence, she has actully claimed that several times over the years. How arrogant and self-absorbed can you be?
And two books, a film....what's next? As for Morphine, I love the acoustic guitar and Ry Cooder's slide, but the lyrics are silly. I never doubted MF's hand in this song because melodramatic lines like 'Lying in my hospital bed....the doctor has no face...' had Marianne written all over it.
As for 'Wild Horses', Keith said it was his line, not Marianne's. Yeah, I know, who to believe, two delusional former junkies staking a claim.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 02:27 by stupidguy2.

Sister Morphine a bad song Bliss? Come on. That is a great tune very dark and edgy. love the vibe. As for Marianne I am indifferent I'm sure putting up with Mick's infidelities was tough but she must have had some inkling of what she was getting into with him. He's had women throwing themselves at him since 1964.

I like her Broken English album and her take of As Tears Go By is charming 60's pop though not as good as what the Stones did with it after her version came out.

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slew
putting up with Mick's infidelities was tough

Maybe not because she was banging other men throughout their relationship.

I actually think Chrissie Shrimpton was Jagger's most interesting early muse. Chrissie was volatile, and pre-fame Jagger was probably not as cocky as later on so he probably got beat up on a regular basis, figuratively and literally.... and those early songs were so combative and full of energy and youthfull discovery of the opposite sex. So I would love to hear from Chrissie. 'Show me the boy and I'll show you the man' or something like that. Chrissie is the underdog here in terms of inspiration. Marianne was hipper, but Chrissie seemed pretty fierce.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 02:46 by stupidguy2.

His majesty - True - did she really sleep with Keith is the question

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slew
His majesty - True - did she really sleep with Keith is the question

Before she was with Mick yes, during, no. Well, this is according to Marianne.

Keith seems to have made up the story about him screwing Marianne in 68/69 to help him save face due the supposed Mick - Anita thing during Performance.

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lsbz

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riverrat
It's human nature to not want your lover making love to another, and to be there for YOU when you need him, young or old, rich or poor--no matter what profession! That's not a "flaw", as she calls it.

That depends on what your values are; I think it's cool for a woman to see it as a flaw. But I doubt that it can help you much in relationships. It's the general involvement that counts most; sexuality is only a small part of that.

Really?? I see sexuality has a huge part of the "general involvement" of a relationship. Otherwise, all you have is a good friendship and are living like roommates. I guess if that's what you're looking for....I'll pass on that.

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riverrat

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lsbz

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riverrat
It's human nature to not want your lover making love to another, and to be there for YOU when you need him, young or old, rich or poor--no matter what profession! That's not a "flaw", as she calls it.

That depends on what your values are; I think it's cool for a woman to see it as a flaw. But I doubt that it can help you much in relationships. It's the general involvement that counts most; sexuality is only a small part of that.

Really?? I see sexuality has a huge part of the "general involvement" of a relationship. Otherwise, all you have is a good friendship and are living like roommates. I guess if that's what you're looking for....I'll pass on that.

No, that's not what I said. Without sexuality there's not much point of seeing a woman, and certainly no real relationship. But I could just as well be annoyed if she spends too much time with her children or work. It is my experience that relationships in practice suffer more from those two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 08:58 by lsbz.