I've only heard about it. When I was in high school a guy mentioned this old Stones bootleg concert moment that was "hilarious because the Stones repeatedly start SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL but keep breaking down and starting again, until Mick finally yells at the band for their ineptitude."

Anyone heard this? Know where it was? Know where I can hear it?

Sounds like a boot of Godard's film which isn't hilarious so much as frustrating. Jagger does get mad (at Charlie, I think) and says "F*ck it. Not again" or something similar. The movie itself has funny parts (the interview with the model, the Black Panthers with the mannequins, the dramatic reading of Mein Kampf) but the studio portions never struck me as anything other than maddening.

Yeah Godard movie & pretty sure first boot heard on was vinyl ANGIE - CBM 1014 Contra Band Music

B- side Stones on Don Kirshiner Rock Concert TV show 1973...





ROCKMAN

I had a boot years ago on vinyl where it was lots of starts and stops of Sympathy -- very early takes, barely recognizable as Sympathy but for the lyrics. I remember Jagger not getting mad at the band but at himself for butchering the lyrics.

T@3

T@3, I bow to your memory over mine in this instance. I remember Jagger getting pissed, but not the specifics. I love everything on BEGGARS so I prefer not to listen to alternate takes of the finished songs.

"Still a Fool" on the other hand was good enough to make the grade and its criminal that it was left off of METAMORPHOSIS - probably because Muddy's publishing rights were not with ABKCO.

Jagger gets mad at Charlie. He goes something like "F*ck it Charlie, you got to come in the bit..". Charlie is still playing the pre-samba beat, the slower one. And where he keeps messing up is that extra bar it does right before going into "Please to meet you.." He tries to work a fill in there but doesn't have the feel down yet. Jagger had the words right from the get-go.

Might be SM's "Sympathy" album too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-09 23:28 by Palace Revolution 2000.

Thanks, Palace Revolution. You've restored an old man's faith in his mangled memory.

To be fair both Mick and Keith continually balls up the change to B as well for awhile, giving contradictory instructions to Charlie.

Mick even gets puzzled by the change on the completed backing track when he overdubs his vocals later.

I think it shows how musically inept they could be, a simple explanation of "a bar of 8 then change" would have sufficed instead of "come in on that other bit Charlie".

Also it's actually Keith who messes the chord sequence at the start when the 3 of them are sitting with acoustics. They were playing it fine and right until Keith stays on E chord too long. Rather than follow Mick and Brian who are right, he keeps going out of sync until they change their playing to fit Keith's playing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-10 08:02 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
I think it shows how musically inept they could be

But isn't it charming and wonderful?
I've always liked these outtakes and the studio parts of the One plus one movie. It is
one of the rare moments when we can witness how a masterpiece like Sympathy was created.
Music from the heart, not the head.

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marcovandereijk

Quote
His Majesty
I think it shows how musically inept they could be

But isn't it charming and wonderful?
I've always liked these outtakes and the studio parts of the One plus one movie. It is
one of the rare moments when we can witness how a masterpiece like Sympathy was created.
Music from the heart, not the head.

Absolutley!

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
marcovandereijk

Quote
His Majesty
I think it shows how musically inept they could be

But isn't it charming and wonderful?
I've always liked these outtakes and the studio parts of the One plus one movie. It is
one of the rare moments when we can witness how a masterpiece like Sympathy was created.
Music from the heart, not the head.

Absolutley!

Like Marko says, it is ultimately the 'real' way music should be done. Because it allows everyone to arrive at their arrangement at their own private inner language. And then - it is there for good.
This was a major revolution for myself in rehearsals. I will at any time spend an extra two hours on a certain passage or so, just to be sure that everyone gets there themselves. You can't get in someone's face and yell:" 4 bars in C then a 3 count and bang! to the E flat". I mean - you can, and I do it, it is done, but it is lightyears more rewarding IMO to get there organically. I mean - that is what playing music is all about IMO.

There's many ways to make ''real music'' and changes don't have to be yelled to be understood easily. Not pointing it out in a clear straightforward way could also lead to people getting in a rut about something and wasting lots of time and energy on it.

It's kinda funny how such a simple thing seems to elude them for so long though, one of the entertaining parts of One Plus One for me.

Yes HM, now that one definitly. The Sympathy change is totally easy, and I have never understood why they have such a hard time with it, LOL

When I used the word 'yell' I meant it more metaphorically. As in, the concept of coming in and instructing the guys what to play basically. And yes, of course there are many ways to get good music together. That is why I am making a point to say this was a personal lesson learned.
I have to be honest actually; we got more done with me being a dictator. Faster, tight, in and out. But I ended up with a lot of tears and bruised egos, and me myself I was missing out on what I consider the ultimate musical experience.
You put 4, 5 guys in a room, get an idea going, or you might have a full song, and there comes a point when it all clicks. When the world is perfectly balanced for a second, and everyone in the room looks at each other and knows it, and knows that you know it.

There was a vinyl boot from TMOQ called "Our Demonic Invocation" that had outtakes or recordings of the movie Sympathy For the Devil. Two sides were outtakes and the other 2 sides were mixed with live material and rare recordings. Inbetween the songs there was a strange narration... creepy.

I've seen a few covers of this boot.

It has been about 25 years since I heard it, so Palace may be right.

I think the vinyl boot I had it on was a single LP, maybe called "Smooth?"
T@3

it's true, one of the problems with working in a band of non-trained musicians is that everyone has their own what Palace calls private inner language for describing what's happening (and when it's supposed to happen!). And actually introducing technical terms that once understood would at least make things clear, tends to seem arrogant to non-music-reading rockers, so you have to come up with a translation into common terms, but sometimes these have different interpretations.... though even here there's potential for misunderstanding: I would have said the extra bar is 4, not 8!

Didn't they do this at Altamont as well?

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cc
I would have said the extra bar is 4, not 8!

Depends where You start counting... The last word of the verses lands on the E chord/first beat of the 8 bar count like so...

Washed his hands and sealed his fate 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

Pleased to meet you etc etc

Up to that point in the verses the last word of each phrase begins a 4 count up till the next phrase starts hence why I say a bar of 8 for above change to B. It's twice as long as the rest between vocal phrases during the verses.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-10 19:00 by His Majesty.

ah, I got it This is like being in band practice!

Quote
cc
it's true, one of the problems with working in a band of non-trained musicians is that everyone has their own what Palace calls private inner language for describing what's happening (and when it's supposed to happen!). And actually introducing technical terms that once understood would at least make things clear, tends to seem arrogant to non-music-reading rockers, so you have to come up with a translation into common terms, but sometimes these have different interpretations.... though even here there's potential for misunderstanding: I would have said the extra bar is 4, not 8!

That is so true CC. I think there are most definitely situations where using a proper musical term could bring out resntment in a guy who you really want to feel good because he is a natural, but really speaks the language of "that extra bit after the other bit". Then you might have horn players there, who think in $, and have no time for 'bits'.

So this is all in that movie, what y'all are talking about? I tried to watch it but it was one of the worst things I've ever seen and it put me to sleep it was so stupid, all the shit interrupting the Stones.

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skipstone
So this is all in that movie, what y'all are talking about? I tried to watch it but it was one of the worst things I've ever seen and it put me to sleep it was so stupid, all the shit interrupting the Stones.

+1

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