Has Bill ever spoken about why he didn't go with the rest of the band to Cotchford Farm to talk to Brian? Are there any quotes that suggest that he disagreed with the rest of the band? Or maybe that he didn't know what was happening?

There were rumours around that time about Bill leaving (and being replaced in some complicated way by Eric Clapton, I think) and Andy Johns has mentioned Mick musing about dropping Bill during the making of Exile. But maybe that's just the sort of thing that's often said in the Stones without meaning much.

"Bill's position generally"

Missionary I guess...

Bill said in Rolling with the Stones he decided to stay home the day Mick, Charlie, and Keith met with Brian and that they decided to go on the spur of the moment. Sounds like he knew it was coming, but might not have known specifically about the meeting until after.

Nothing I've ever seen suggests he didn't agree with the decision, seems like he saw it as necessary as the others.

I think this is a great question. It could be, as courtfieldroad suggests, that the trek was spontaneous and he just didn't come. Or feel like going. Did poor Brian know what was coming when he heard their car(s) coming up the drive? was he happily swimming or playing music? or lying in a squalid bed in a daze?

I haven't read about That fatal Day in a long time so don't remember what the Stones were doing immediately beforehand (recording or rehearsing, I think), what time of the day or night it was.

- swiss

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swiss
Did poor Brian know what was coming when he heard their car(s) coming up the drive? was he happily swimming or playing music? or lying in a squalid bed in a daze?

He knew that he was going to get sacked since he hadn't been in contact with the rest for a long time by then. Brian was paranoid and insecure and to be fair he had reason to be that to some extent. The meeting between Mick, Keith, Charlie nad Brian is said to have been handled well by them all. It was a mutual agreement.

The day after the meeting Brian is supposed to have been writing to Les Perrin's wife Janie that read:

I'm very unhappy, so unhappy. I've done things. But I've sorted out things
financially and morally. I've done the best I can for the people I love. I love you and Les very much.

Janie got worried and called him only to find that Brian was happy again. Aleksis Korner say that Brian was very relieved after he had left the Stones and that he was working hard to get a new band together. People around him tend to describe as happier and more positive than ever. He didn't do any illegal drugs at that point and didn't drink as much alcohol as he had been before. Things were looking good and then the poor guy drowned.

Ah, thanks, I haven't read Rolling With the Stones. I must. I don't think he mentioned that in Stone Alone, but I may be forgetting.

I have the impression that by this time Bill had withdrawn a little from the other Stones, apart from Charlie. That he stopped trying to get songs accepted after Downtown Lucy and concentrated on his playing while letting the crazies get on with whatever they felt they had to do.

But then there are so many versions of what was happening at that time.

I'm pretty sure I remember Keith saying that he and Brian spoke every day but I can't remember where he said it (the 1971 Rolling Stone interview, perhaps?) and that's not what seems to be suggested by other accounts. Bill's said that Brian would visit them during recording sessions (the interview's in 25x/5).

In Stone Alone Wyman writes that he always felt that his future with the Stones was very uncertain, that shows that he must have felt somekind of pressure for a long time.

He was sacked because he wasn't present in the band anymore - he was unable to play, both in studio and on stage.

If Stones had contiued with Brian - it would have been a "4 member band" with Brian fooling around, and in the end the death of Stones, because of Keith's condition.

It was a correct decision. I don't think Bill questions the decision. He knew of Brian's status in the studio thumbling around in a corner, drunk or on drugs.

I think that's why I have an extra fondness for Bill. He just did his job; through all the craziness and egos and wild personalities and drugs and every other extraneous bullshit that had nothing to do with the wonderful music they created. And the added bs of them possibly wanting to sack him because his image may have not been quite right, or he didn't want to stay up for three nights straight with Keith. (It seems like Bill just wanted a good snog and hit the hay). And the biggest irony of all is that he was every bit the musician any of them were. I think we saw Keith and Mick and Brian as immature little shits who didn't grow up with the post-war privations he endured. He served in the military, he had a family to support, and had a real job. Seems like they should have imitated him a bit more than the other way around.

In Stone Alone, Bill made it more or less clear that the Stones ended with Brian's departure. Deep down inside, I think we all know that. The Faces ended without Ronnie Lane, the Who ended without Moonie. As a musician, I know that changing even just one band member always changes the entire complexion of the band, so think what happens when you take away the soul of the band like Jones, Lane or Moonie.

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24FPS
I think that's why I have an extra fondness for Bill. He just did his job; through all the craziness and egos and wild personalities and drugs and every other extraneous bullshit that had nothing to do with the wonderful music they created. And the added bs of them possibly wanting to sack him because his image may have not been quite right, or he didn't want to stay up for three nights straight with Keith. (It seems like Bill just wanted a good snog and hit the hay). And the biggest irony of all is that he was every bit the musician any of them were. I think we saw Keith and Mick and Brian as immature little shits who didn't grow up with the post-war privations he endured. He served in the military, he had a family to support, and had a real job. Seems like they should have imitated him a bit more than the other way around.

Well, he didn't do drugs, but he certainly was a womanizer / scored lots of women - which he profited from being a Stones member

Brian was getting himself together. He was happy that he left the Stones. A short time after the other Stones left for France to evade taxes. I always have to laugh when i read that Anita was annoyed at Keith in France as he ignored her due to his increasing heroin addiction. After seeing the latest pics of Ms. Pallenberg Brian would have been appalled at her appearance. She and Keith look far older than their years. Brian was off all drugs and was paranoid that another bust would happen. He was pissed that Anna Wholin brought drugs when she came to live with him. Personally, if Brian was murdered I think Tom Keylock did it. Keylock saw his meal ticket ending and he was sacked after Brian died. Bill Wyman kept it together all those years as did Charlie but Charlie did have some drinking problems in the 90's and he said he almost lost his wife Shirley because of it.

'Charlie did have some drinking problems in the 90's'. Charlie also admits to a serious heroin problem in the 80s when the band was going to seed. I think Wyman admitted to smoking a lot of pot at one point, if you can call that a serious addiction. That boy was poontang addled is what he was.

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24FPS
And the biggest irony of all is that he was every bit the musician any of them were. I think we saw Keith and Mick and Brian as immature little shits who didn't grow up with the post-war privations he endured. He served in the military, he had a family to support, and had a real job. Seems like they should have imitated him a bit more than the other way around.

yeah, that would have been awesome, if all the Stones had been in the military. Rock and roll!

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BeachGirl
Brian was off all drugs and was paranoid that another bust would happen.

He was paranoid about another bust. Nothing says he was completely off drugs though, Anna herself said (pre-book) he was taking at least a couple valiums a day in trying to "get off drugs", presumably illegal drugs, and he died with amphetamine in his system...

Just keeping it real.

Spur of the moment as in ''yeah, lets go and deal with this now''.

What with Brian and the other stones voicing the possibility of parting beforehand and a hot new song with another guitarist in the can the future was screaming to Mick, Keith and Charlie to act now!

Viewing their decision without any thought about the tragedy that was about to happen, continuing without Brian was the right thing to do for the band, just as leaving the band was the right thing to do for Brian.

Although leaving the stones was probably very painful for Brian, I think deep down that he would have been happy that the band carried on it's musical evolution without him.

It's a real shame Brian didn't get the chance to realize a new future for himself too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 12:34 by His Majesty.

I recall Bill and Mick Taylor both talked about quitting during the Exile sessions.

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Carnaby
In Stone Alone, Bill made it more or less clear that the Stones ended with Brian's departure. Deep down inside, I think we all know that...

I don't. Fantastic music with Brian, his contribution was enormous but Bleed, Sticky,Exile, Girls and Tattoo are (in my opinion) their best albums alongside Banquet and I'm not sure how much of a contribution Brian made to that.