I saw this song mentioned recently but can't recall in what thread. For various reasons Brian Jones has been foremost in my mind lately when it comes to the Stones. His guitar playing. Or to be exact: his role as guitar player in the Stones. I've seen it said that he was not much of a guitarist,and I guess I probably agreed with that. But I have come to see it differently. We know that Brian was a pretty unique musician. I guess we can all agree on that.
Did he spread himself too thin? Maybe at some point in his life; when he wasn't doing much spreading at all, but from all accounts he was very focused in the early years, and yes towards the end again.
He was surely a master harmonica player. Flute, marimbas he not only played them well, but he wrote the parts. And these were integral parts to the song, not some little tinkering as window dressing. You can say that when Brian was involved in the band he made them a much better band. No he did not write, he did not sing, but he was one of the key ingredients in the Stones' sound, and creativity.
So why would he be a weak guitarist? It doesn't compute? I think Brian did exactly what the song called for on guitar - in those times. The right part. This is the key IMO. In 63 and small car radios, the audiences were not ready to hear music as dense and tight and busy as today. The ear is taught. The studios were not equipped to record two equal guitars , plus vocals and piano, and bass & drums.
Would the early songs have suffered from guitar overload?

But I guess I should talk about the subject line. I always believed that MAJ was all Keith on guitar. Now I ask myself if the second guitar could be Brian. Not the opening distorted guitar, but the other one that plays the lead-like lines in higher register. When that guitar follows the melody e.g on "the money invested in you" it is something I could see Brian liking.

All this recent Brian talk and great footage that's been shared *thanks again!* has made me re-think what I'd settled on believing regarding his abilities etc.

I've always been a fan, always marveled at the parts he's been confirmed as playing, but I think now that he's quite a misunderstood musician and that he did indeed contribute more than we realize.

Whether I've been aware of it or not, it seems that up to now I've automatically assumed anything upfront and solid post 1965 is played by Keith. I get the feeling I'm not alone in that, but maybe I'm wrong!?

The fact the band rarely mention names in relation to specific parts makes things a lot more difficult.

...

Regarding Miss Amanda Jones, the lead parts to me are most likely and most obviously Keith, but if you give the NME 65 Poll Winners concert a listen and focus on Brians playing during Around and Around, what he plays is very similar to what is heard on Mis Amanda Jones main riffing guitar. It's a hard call, what with late 66 being the period where Keith very much came forward with that rock/riffing berry style etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-21 20:46 by His Majesty.

I think Brian had far more of a role in the creative process than he is given credit for (by Stones fans and Keith Richards for that matter). Maybe some base their assumptions on the stoned out of his brain Brian Jones that we see in One Plus One. Always thought it rather odd and cruel that they included that in the film.

For my part, I think his contributions were integral to making a lot of songs something special (Under My Thumb and Ruby Tuesday as two examples).

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Palace Revolution 2000
I've seen it said that he was not much of a guitarist,and I guess I probably agreed with that.

Keith Richards was not much of a guitarist either. Once in 1980 Alexis Korner said to me: 'Keith Richards is the worst guitarist in the world but nobody could do it better than him!'.


And right he was!

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terraplane
I think Brian had far more of a role in the creative process than he is given credit for (by Stones fans and Keith Richards for that matter). Maybe some base their assumptions on the stoned out of his brain Brian Jones that we see in One Plus One. Always thought it rather odd and cruel that they included that in the film.

He doesn't really seem stoned out of his face in One Plus One though. Quite the opposite infact.

Wasn't there a bit where he could barely keep his eyes open - looked like he was about to drop off the perch? Sure it was in that movie.

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terraplane
Wasn't there a bit where he could barely keep his eyes open - looked like he was about to drop off the perch? Sure it was in that movie.

That's from 1967, used for We Love You film.

It was played along side the One Plus One footage in the 25x5 video for some reason. Guess they didn't have any footage of Brian out of it in 1968, so had to use that to highlight the point Mick etc were making in the documentary.

...and that is the footage that everybody seem to base their image of Brian on.

Brian didn't do that much drugs in 68 thanks to the trials and when he was threatened with jail he is said to have quit the drugs - he didn't even let his pals smoke joints in his house. Sadly he never gave up alcohol. In One plus One he looks alright I think. The saddest thing in that film is how they don't even look at him. He just sits in his sound proof square strumming away. It's like the RnR Circus.

Anyway, I also believe that Brian was more involved in the creative process than he ever will get credit for. Sometimes I believe he was involved to an extent were he even should have got some writing credits. Brian was a creative spirit with a huge passion for music and instruments. When he could I'm sure he would come with inputs and ideas for the songs - no doubt. That's how things work when being in a band.

I thought about Brian and the Stones some days ago when I was watching a documentary about Pink Floyd. David Gilmour spoke of when Syd was leaving and said something like "When you're a young man and eager for fame you don't always care enough about others. You walk right over them in your way to sucess - and then you got plenty of time feeling guilty about it."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-22 14:30 by tonterapi.

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tonterapi
...and that is the footage that everybody seem to base their image of Brian on.

Brian didn't do that much drugs in 68 thanks to the trials and when he was threatened with jail he is said to have quit the drugs - he didn't even let his pals smoke joints in his house. Sadly he never gave up alcohol. In One plus One he looks alright I think. The saddest thing in that film is how they don't even look at him. He just sits in his sound proof square strumming away. It's like the RnR Circus in a way.

I think he seems ok too. He's not really playing anything amazing, or needed imo, but for that day atleast he's nowhere near the out of it condition he was in for the We Love You promo.

Also, despite the apparent coldness in the One Plus One footage the band must have engaged with him well enough to allow him to play on 9 or so tracks from JJF/COTM/Beggars Banquet. There's also the magical Still A Foll from this period too.

Keno has an extensive lyrics section on his site. A lot of work has been put into it over the years and I used it many, many times to check his information on who plays what with that of my own ears and found it quite consistant, though not always perfect. But who am I to judge. At the same time, as an original fan I always saw the products of the Stones as a band effort. The final result is what counts (isn't that what Keith also always said?) and contributions always vary per song and in time. I feel very rich with my Stones music collection.

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His Majesty
Also, despite the apparent coldness in the One Plus One footage the band must have engaged with him well enough to allow him to play on 9 or so tracks from JJF/COTM/Beggars Banquet. There's also the magical Still A Foll from this period too.

I think that it was a strange year for them. According to Terry Rawlings Brian was really happy that the band would return to blues/rock after Their Satanic Majesties. He is said to have loved both JJF and COTM and returned a bit to his former self coming with input and being excited again. But he lost interest once more when Mick and Keith didn't listen to his ideas. They didn't want him there because they felt that he wasn't needed. He didn't always show up either and that surely pissed them off. Brian didn't want to be there because he felt that he was out in the cold and then he had his personal problems. A bad circle with zero understanding from both parts IMO.

I think that they felt that they had to engage him to do something. After all, he was a member. But there doesn't seem to have been any warm atmosphere when he was there. Jimmy Miller has said that when Brian came down to the studio Mick and Keith said that he should tell him to @#$%& off. Then there's also that famous episode where Brian is asking Mick: "What can I play?" and Mick says: "I don't know Brian, what can you play?".
In one way I can understand them. Brian still had problems that couldn't have been easy to cope with. But they didn't really encourage him and let him in when he showed interest. RnR Circus says it all. You can almost see the invisible wall between Brian and the band. One Plus One was the first thing that showed the cracks to the fans.

How can anyone say that Brian wasn't much of a guitarist. At the time, he was revered by everyone! Not only was he one of the only UK slide players who could actually play the blues, but he always brought an amazing flourish to everything he did. It's just a shame he lost it all and let the drugs and booze take over.