"The Rolling Stones' 18th studio album was released in 1986, having been recorded under the toughest possible circumstances. It is astonishing that it was ever made. Less astonishingly, it's a superbly accomplished set of songs that once again proved the Stones' critics wrong."

WHAT??!! A "superbly accomplished set of songs that once again proved the Stones' critics wrong."?????/

HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Really?

[www.rollingstones.com]

They have...24 studio albums, right? But it says they have 29? Or is that including UK and US separate releases of the same album?

I frankly wish that they had exercised some judgment and discretion and NOT made this album under those "difficult circumstances" (at least three of the band members having serious substance abuse problems at the time, and the band's two leaders barely on speaking terms). If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted. There are some things remixing cannot salvage.

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71Tele
I frankly wish that they had exercised some judgment and discretion and NOT made this album under those "difficult circumstances" (at least three of the band members having serious substance abuse problems at the time, and the band's two leaders barely on speaking terms). If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted. There are some things remixing cannot salvage.

Its all a matter of points of view.

I will never say that this is an essential Stones album, yet it is a good one.

At the time it was released I was 18 and into Prince, Talking Heads and similar, so I wasn't annoyed at all by the production. The songs were fun and I enjoyed them. Still do.

C

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71Tele
If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted.

That is PHUNNY!

and sadly, so true.

POSITIVE THINGS I WOULD SAY ABOUT THE LP:

"One Hit (to the Body)" - great guitar work
"Fight" - nice guitar break (also enjoyed it on their prior LP)
"Harlem Shuffle" - best track on the LP (musically and production-wise)
"Hold Back" - the insturmental part towards the end is pretty good
"Too Rude" - one of the highlights on the LP (another cover...see a trend?)
"Winning Ugly" - umm, I'm still thinking...24 years isn't enough time
"Back to Zero" - nice bridge, better than the track before it
"Dirty Work" - great guitar work, drumming is better than most of the LP
"Had It With You" - one of the highlights on the LP
"Sleep Tonight" - one of the highlights on the LP


NEGATIVE THINGS I WOULD SAY ABOUT THE LP:
Most of the production
Most of the vocals
Most of the drumming
Most of the lyrics
Most of the keyboards

Like BRIDGES TO BABYLON, this feels more like Mick and Keith solo sessions cobbled together to form a Stones LP. I don't hate it. It isn't worthless. UNDERCOVER stands as their final band statement and, in "Too Much Blood" the launching of Mick as a solo artist. In some ways, I like DIRTY WORK better than STEEL WHEELS. Maybe it's easier to say they have distinct strengths and weaknesses.

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71Tele
I frankly wish that they had exercised some judgment and discretion and NOT made this album under those "difficult circumstances" (at least three of the band members having serious substance abuse problems at the time, and the band's two leaders barely on speaking terms). If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted. There are some things remixing cannot salvage.

substance abuse contributed mightily to some of the greatest rock and jazz music ever. please reconsider.

Ha ha - it's certainly the soundtrack of what not to do when a band is not getting along and essentially dying for a good song.

You want an example of being in a permanent argument? Play The Rolling Stones' Dirty Work!

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liddas

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71Tele
I frankly wish that they had exercised some judgment and discretion and NOT made this album under those "difficult circumstances" (at least three of the band members having serious substance abuse problems at the time, and the band's two leaders barely on speaking terms). If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted. There are some things remixing cannot salvage.

Its all a matter of points of view.

I will never say that this is an essential Stones album, yet it is a good one.

At the time it was released I was 18 and into Prince, Talking Heads and similar, so I wasn't annoyed at all by the production. The songs were fun and I enjoyed them. Still do.

C

This is a good point. There were certain artists that meshed well with, and even benefited from, that notorious 80's production sound, and if you came of age during that time, you likely enjoyed it.

I don't think it really worked for the Stones though.

Not Duran Duran enough.

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skipstone
Not Duran Duran enough.

no mas no mas

...yeesh i was 16 when that piece of crap came out...i had trouble looking the clerk at the store in the eye when i bought it because of the cover...at least it was sealed in red plastic...but was it worth saving my school lunch money for a week???....no...

sadly it's better than the one that came after it though...

the songs that you TRY to like off of it just in reality aren't that great compared to their "great" work...just sounds like they are going through the motions...

it was a pathetic time for them...the trend-setters following the trends...and obviously it doesn't hold up...

remixing might help but there is no saving garbage like "Back to Zero", "Winning Ugly" and that useless remake of "Harlem Shuffle"...and if Mick was "saving his best stuff" for his solo records then it's not saying much for what they were capable of at the time anyway...

i still love 'em though...

IN fact, it's saying nothing positive if he truly did keep his 'good stuff' for his solo albums.

Funny how a lot of people don't like Harlem Shuffle. I've always thought they did a very faithful rendition of the tune and it is possibly the best song on the album.

Same here, but I didn't enjoy the live version on the STEEL WHEELS tour. Same arrangement Mick used on his solo tour and not to my liking. Ditto the live version of "One Hit" on those tours.

I like the album! What you think is another story, really...

yeh i'm losing rolling stones as a facebook friend over this. i saw the nice featurette they had on between the buttons and thought this is so cool. a little while later all this miserable hype instead of a clear WARNING>
good press release i suppose but so totally out of whack with almost the universal agreement that this was not a record to be proud of. i was glad i had it on cassette so i could tape over the slots and at least get some middling blank tape out of it. there is ALWAYS something fascinating to me bout almost anything they do; a reedemable track and interesting played sequence or whateve. true here too. but all in all a horrible horrible bit of noise. who ever produced this including the glims were so careless and even evil at the complete lapse of any kind of sensibility in the recording of the drums. the guitars are steely and edgy not in a good way. in a disturbing thin edgy way...muffled distortion turned up loud. the songs are crap for the most part imo. the vocals are super charged character mick screamy screamy but no dimension phoned in vokes. a mess. that's my extemporaneous write up. they were not into it but had an album to deliver on their contract or something...

I listen to Dirty Work more often than Bridges or Steel Wheels. I like the record.

Like "Beelyboy"...i'm the guy who tries to find something positive in everything that they do...and usually i can...but "Dirty Work" just depresses me...damn the 80's and that production style...plus with Charlie being on the arm dope and Ronnie co-writing a lot of it...what can you expect...i guess the best song on it is Stu's part as the LP fades out...of course i'm being facetious with that..."Sleep Tonight" is the only "true" Stones song on that LP in my opinion...

"Steel Wheels" was the final nail in that 80's coffin...another LP that jackasses people like Kurt Loder and David Fricke compared to 'their best work...hearkens back to Exile"...which is just wishful thinking and a load of crap...when you go back and listen to it - it certainly does not...geez i remember them bragging about how fast they wrote that LP and how many great songs they left in the can...i guess one of them was "Sex Drive"...yeesh...

they have always done better when they have someone kicking their ass and telling them what to do...ala' Jimmy Miller...until he got sucked into trying to be one of them...just like Don Was is doing now...i thought he started out great...now they could walk in with a symphony composed on spoons and water glasses and he would say 'man...it's just like Beggar's Banquet"...

hopefully if they do record again...they will have a sympathetic producer who will tell them to 'keep workin on it...and it needs a bridge'...

but like i said before...i love 'em...and i buy anything that they make...no matter how bad it is...cuz the good outweighs the bad...

seems like some ppl - still 25 years later now - listen to stuff like this even though they don't like it? maybe that's not the case. i don't like it, and like all things i don't like - i don't allow myself to listen to it, cos it's no fun to listen to stuff you don't like. i'm like that.

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StonesTod
seems like some ppl - still 25 years later now - listen to stuff like this even though they don't like it? maybe that's not the case. i don't like it, and like all things i don't like - i don't allow myself to listen to it, cos it's no fun to listen to stuff you don't like. i'm like that.

I don't listen to it, not because I don't like it, (and I don't), but because you have so many people trying to convince you to like it.

I don't like pushy people, so I'm not listening to it, because I don't like it, but because of spite.

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treaclefingers

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StonesTod
seems like some ppl - still 25 years later now - listen to stuff like this even though they don't like it? maybe that's not the case. i don't like it, and like all things i don't like - i don't allow myself to listen to it, cos it's no fun to listen to stuff you don't like. i'm like that.

I don't listen to it, not because I don't like it, (and I don't), but because you have so many people trying to convince you to like it.

I don't like pushy people, so I'm not listening to it, because I don't like it, but because of spite.

you said spite, so....you can't return the purchase....or something...

it is amazing how often it comes up for the ritual of abuse and defense. What would we do without it?

I think there have been more threads devoted to this album, and Undercover, in the past year than to any other album besides Exile... and to the ongoing evaluation of ABB, now 5 years old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-19 01:37 by cc.

Great and singular in the Stones catalog, DW vividly exposes the 80s culture of greed/Thatcher/Reagan etc & is just as unforgiving and harsh exploring the fractious state of the Stones. Jagger never sounded less feline, more direct Minor irritations in the production, but the record's power is undiminished imo.

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StonesTod

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treaclefingers

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StonesTod
seems like some ppl - still 25 years later now - listen to stuff like this even though they don't like it? maybe that's not the case. i don't like it, and like all things i don't like - i don't allow myself to listen to it, cos it's no fun to listen to stuff you don't like. i'm like that.

I don't listen to it, not because I don't like it, (and I don't), but because you have so many people trying to convince you to like it.

I don't like pushy people, so I'm not listening to it, because I don't like it, but because of spite.

you said spite, so....you can't return the purchase....or something...

OK, yes, you caught me, that theft was directly from Seinfeld. I'm getting ready for my 11th row seats for the Aug. 20 show in Vancouver.

What was he returning anyway?

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treaclefingers

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StonesTod

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treaclefingers

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StonesTod
seems like some ppl - still 25 years later now - listen to stuff like this even though they don't like it? maybe that's not the case. i don't like it, and like all things i don't like - i don't allow myself to listen to it, cos it's no fun to listen to stuff you don't like. i'm like that.

I don't listen to it, not because I don't like it, (and I don't), but because you have so many people trying to convince you to like it.

I don't like pushy people, so I'm not listening to it, because I don't like it, but because of spite.

you said spite, so....you can't return the purchase....or something...

OK, yes, you caught me, that theft was directly from Seinfeld. I'm getting ready for my 11th row seats for the Aug. 20 show in Vancouver.

What was he returning anyway?

a jacket. spite didn't fit into one of their categories as a condition for returning. and they had to go with his first response, too. it's important to get it right the first time....that's a lesson to all you kids out there....

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liddas

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71Tele
I frankly wish that they had exercised some judgment and discretion and NOT made this album under those "difficult circumstances" (at least three of the band members having serious substance abuse problems at the time, and the band's two leaders barely on speaking terms). If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted. There are some things remixing cannot salvage.

Its all a matter of points of view.

I will never say that this is an essential Stones album, yet it is a good one.

At the time it was released I was 18 and into Prince, Talking Heads and similar, so I wasn't annoyed at all by the production. The songs were fun and I enjoyed them. Still do.

C

We have different definitions of the word "good". Mine does not encompass "things that are crap". But if you enjoy it, it matters not if I do.

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StonesTod

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71Tele
I frankly wish that they had exercised some judgment and discretion and NOT made this album under those "difficult circumstances" (at least three of the band members having serious substance abuse problems at the time, and the band's two leaders barely on speaking terms). If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted. There are some things remixing cannot salvage.

substance abuse contributed mightily to some of the greatest rock and jazz music ever. please reconsider.

Certainly not in this particular case. Specifically having Charlie join the junkie club tipped the balance in the wrong direction, IMO...

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john r
Great and singular in the Stones catalog, DW vividly exposes the 80s culture of greed/Thatcher/Reagan etc & is just as unforgiving and harsh exploring the fractious state of the Stones. Jagger never sounded less feline, more direct Minor irritations in the production, but the record's power is undiminished imo.

This would all be fine if the actual songs didn't SUCK.

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StonesTod

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skipstone
Not Duran Duran enough.

no mas no mas

LOL!

Great line.

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71Tele

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StonesTod

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71Tele
I frankly wish that they had exercised some judgment and discretion and NOT made this album under those "difficult circumstances" (at least three of the band members having serious substance abuse problems at the time, and the band's two leaders barely on speaking terms). If they ever release a "Deluxe" edition of DW, it will be the only album in history where some of the original tracks are deleted. There are some things remixing cannot salvage.

substance abuse contributed mightily to some of the greatest rock and jazz music ever. please reconsider.

Certainly not in this particular case. Specifically having Charlie join the junkie club tipped the balance in the wrong direction, IMO...

charlie ain't the prob with the album, unless he wrote the tunes this time...