just started a band and looking to buy a new effects pedal to get a exile era keith guitar sound, any suggestions?

I don't know, but you might find this thread interesting: [www.iorr.org]

I doubt you´ll get that sound with an fx pedal...
That sound is very much a result of the equipment used, and the surroundings the songs were recorded in. But good luck.

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

is the one disk Exile they are offering on RS.com a good deal for like 17 or 18 including shipping?

and is it the virgin version?


p

cheers for the help... does anyone know if a bigg muff is any good?

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Tropical_Disease
cheers for the help... does anyone know if a bigg muff is any good?

I myself like tight muffs

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

Topical, the Big Muffs are good. Actually all the Electro Harmonix pedals are good. But they have a ..certain sound. I think once you get the feel for EH boxes, you can always spot that sound, no matter which specific f/x is being used. The Muff gives sustain too; it is oldtime distortion, not the newer modern version that always seems to come with a chorus f/x already in it.
But as far as Keith's Exile sound goes...Vilhelm is absolutely right. This is one of the beauties and part of Keith's genius - his sound has hardly anything to do with stompboxes. (Except for the few obvious, almost gimmicky sounds e.g Satisfaction, Shattered) Keith is all about the guitar, the amp, the room, the recording technique, control - of volume, breathing room for notes and beats. Organic. The person.
You could probably give two different people the exact same setup: guitar, settings etc; and the sound will vary radically.
I would say, get a good chord change on top of a good drummer, and before you know it you will feel like your own Keith.

I think a Big Muff is quite a distance away from the sound you are seeking. I can't really say what would get you in the area of Exile, because everyone is right, it is all about the guitar, amp, room, etc.

However, a Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive will get you on the right track to Keith's more recent tone. In my opinion.

Wayne

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Palace Revolution 2000
Topical, the Big Muffs are good. Actually all the Electro Harmonix pedals are good. But they have a ..certain sound. I think once you get the feel for EH boxes, you can always spot that sound, no matter which specific f/x is being used. The Muff gives sustain too; it is oldtime distortion, not the newer modern version that always seems to come with a chorus f/x already in it.
But as far as Keith's Exile sound goes...Vilhelm is absolutely right. This is one of the beauties and part of Keith's genius - his sound has hardly anything to do with stompboxes. (Except for the few obvious, almost gimmicky sounds e.g Satisfaction, Shattered) Keith is all about the guitar, the amp, the room, the recording technique, control - of volume, breathing room for notes and beats. Organic. The person.
You could probably give two different people the exact same setup: guitar, settings etc; and the sound will vary radically.
I would say, get a good chord change on top of a good drummer, and before you know it you will feel like your own Keith.

The strange thing is that Jimmy Miller, Andy Johns and Chris Kimsey have all stated that Keith was never that much interested in the sound of his guitar and amp. It was either good, or not good. He plugged in to what ever was available, and that was it. He also didn't seem to overly interested in the recorded sound -it was good or not good. There's a long interview with Andy Johns that was posted in this board concerning this.

To get keith's sound on Exile is simple: buy an Ampeg V2, V4, VT-22 or VT-40 with sensetivity rocker switches and use limited overdrive. To get Taylor's sound buy a Fender Deluxe Reverb.

The only stomp box in my opinion that can get reasonable Keith sounds (albeit more of the later Boogie sounds) is the Barber Electronics LTD. This box is modelled to get that Fender or Boogie trebly country twang.

Mathijs

Stompboxes are almost becoming obsolete anyway. All the newer amps (beginning with the whole Line 6 line) have their own built in f/x. These include vintage samples of Fender 2x12 sounds, Vox, Champ etc. They have parameters that you can tweak then. The Vox amps have this too. Marshalls..I was mainly referring to the Fender Twang that is easy to get now.
Soon all you will need is one amp, no matter which. Maybe not even that - one "unit".
I am not sure if Keith's Exile sound is wrapped up in an Ampeg. What songs do you hear it on Mathijs?

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Palace Revolution 2000
Stompboxes are almost becoming obsolete anyway. All the newer amps (beginning with the whole Line 6 line) have their own built in f/x. These include vintage samples of Fender 2x12 sounds, Vox, Champ etc. They have parameters that you can tweak then. The Vox amps have this too. Marshalls..I was mainly referring to the Fender Twang that is easy to get now.
Soon all you will need is one amp, no matter which. Maybe not even that - one "unit".
I am not sure if Keith's Exile sound is wrapped up in an Ampeg. What songs do you hear it on Mathijs?

I´m thinking about purchasing the Line 6 Spider 75, only heard it at a guitar show, but liked what I heard. Anyone here tried it out and care to share their opinion?

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

The Spiders might be their premier line; not sure. But they make them from Micro size up to 150 W heads with 4x12 cabinets. IMO like most technology, guitar amps are radically changing too. Size has never mattered, and now matters even less. Only for small club live sound does size matter; recording or big arenas you might as well play a battery size amp and save $. The Spiders are great; yeah. Transistors but you can get any vintage tube sound.
I'm thinking in a way Keith's got it right. He still considers playing guitar a challenge.

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mickijaggeroo

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Palace Revolution 2000
Stompboxes are almost becoming obsolete anyway. All the newer amps (beginning with the whole Line 6 line) have their own built in f/x. These include vintage samples of Fender 2x12 sounds, Vox, Champ etc. They have parameters that you can tweak then. The Vox amps have this too. Marshalls..I was mainly referring to the Fender Twang that is easy to get now.
Soon all you will need is one amp, no matter which. Maybe not even that - one "unit".
I am not sure if Keith's Exile sound is wrapped up in an Ampeg. What songs do you hear it on Mathijs?

I´m thinking about purchasing the Line 6 Spider 75, only heard it at a guitar show, but liked what I heard. Anyone here tried it out and care to share their opinion?

Simply put: until this day I have not heard one digital amp, stompbox, modeller or whatever that actually sounds good for a longer period than 2 hours. All this Line 6 gear -it's amazing for the first hour, nice for the second hour, but than it starts to irritate. The sound is empty, hollow, metallic, and in the end: fake. I know one day it will, but until date digital can not replace analogue, and certainly not old fashioned valve/tube amps. The three dimensional, room filling sound of a good tube amp is unmatched to date.

Concerning Ampeg on Exile: my guess is that over 75% of all Keith tracks is recorded with an Ampeg VT-22. Examples: the main riff of Ventilator Blues, Turd on the Run, Casino Boogie are Ampeg for sure. The driving rythm guitar of Tumbling Dice and Stop Breaking Down is Ampeg crunch, the open G guitar of Rip This Joint and Happy are Ampeg. Rocks Off is a combination of Ampeg and Fender Twin or Deluxe. Keith's main guitar on All Down the line and Sould Survivor are Fender amps in my opinion. I think about all Taylor's tracks are, in my opinion, done on a smaller Fender with reverb, so a Deluxe Reverb or simular. Taylor has stated various times that he hated Ampeg amps, and that he couldn't use his prefered Marshall amp as Keith didn't like them.

Of course, they probably used many amps and the album in the end is mixed so that all tracks have the same sound and athmosphere, but the Ampeg stamp clearly is all over the album.

Mathijs

It's interesting that Taylor would make that remark about ampeg as he was using them in the early '80s when touring with John Mayall. Today he runs a Marshall and Fender Twin in parallel.

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terraplane
It's interesting that Taylor would make that remark about ampeg as he was using them in the early '80s when touring with John Mayall.

Are you sure? I thought he used a large Marshall stack and Fender Twin combo for the Dylan tour.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-12-28 15:40 by Mathijs.

Of course you're right about everything you say Mathijs. It is the same argument for dig vs analogue recording studio, CDs versus vinyl, MP3s versus a 'real' song recording, the final released version of Steel Wheels versus the warm, crunchy rough mixes. Nothing will ever beat the real thing. But it is a reality. The Vox Valvetronix line has some very good sounds on the amps.
I wonder how much of ABB was done on solid state amplification.

I'm with Mathijs on the subject of digital stomp boxes such as Line6. I own a Johnson J-Station which was great when I was living in a small flat in Paris. It still is amazing for quickly trying things out when you start adding guitar layers to a song - things like "maybe i should try a huge marshall sound on this one? Or get a Fender bassman rythm?"

However I would not be using this for a final take - a good guitar, a good amp, a good room, good mikes & preamp will still sound much much better.

My main issue with digital amp simulation is just that it seems to simply suck the soul out of the guitars. No matter how I play it, using the Marshall setting on the J-Station with my Telecaster will simply end up sounding like a Les Paul. Also all the subtle things that translate so well over a _real_ tube amp simply seem to vanish with digital simulation - like playing with the volume knob and attack.

I play in a band and we record and perform live and NOTHING will ever beat a tube amp and analog effects. NOTHING. Simulated sound is just that, simulated sound. It may sound cool or maybe even close, but in the long run it is not, and will never be, equal. Anyone seeking a "classic" sound needs a real guitar into a real tube amp and maybe a couple of analog effects. That's just about it. More modern music relies on solid state and some other effects that seem to work right in that genre.

I've tried Line 6 and aside from one pedal that I have (the leslie simulator) I find their simulations to be somewhat close but still quite far away.

Wayne

You know guys, I don't want to come off like a lobbyist for Line 6 dig equipment, LOL. I myself use as much tube analog dusty amps too. My point is, that l;ike it or not it is going to be what is coming. And that Line 6 leads the pack. And that IMO the amp settings are pretty good. But I do think pretty soon we will all just get a "unit".
Just like the phone/computer/fax/dvdplayer/gameboy/ipod gadget. Soon we all just carry one "thing" that does it all: communicate, illustrate, entertain and locate. It will be stamped into my collarbone...

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Tropical_Disease
just started a band and looking to buy a new effects pedal to get a exile era keith guitar sound, any suggestions?

You won't get it from any pedal or digtal modelling bollocks. Half the sound is in the guitar/amp rig...and the other half in what you do with them. ;^)

dont try to hard to sound like someone....just find the sound YOU like!
maybe its gonna be a lespaul junior and a mesa, maybe the sg and hiwatt is your combination. dont exprect too much from pedals. the "basic stuff" always sounds good (gibson, fender, gretsch, marshall, mesa, hiwatt). the rest is in your fingers.

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Mathijs
Concerning Ampeg on Exile: my guess is that over 75% of all Keith tracks is recorded with an Ampeg VT-22. Examples: the main riff of Ventilator Blues, Turd on the Run, Casino Boogie are Ampeg for sure. The driving rythm guitar of Tumbling Dice and Stop Breaking Down is Ampeg crunch, the open G guitar of Rip This Joint and Happy are Ampeg. Rocks Off is a combination of Ampeg and Fender Twin or Deluxe. Keith's main guitar on All Down the line and Sould Survivor are Fender amps in my opinion. I think about all Taylor's tracks are, in my opinion, done on a smaller Fender with reverb, so a Deluxe Reverb or simular. Taylor has stated various times that he hated Ampeg amps, and that he couldn't use his prefered Marshall amp as Keith didn't like them.

Of course, they probably used many amps and the album in the end is mixed so that all tracks have the same sound and athmosphere, but the Ampeg stamp clearly is all over the album.

Mathijs

Interesting! I'm gonna listen to Exile through headphones again to get my impression.

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Mathijs

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terraplane
It's interesting that Taylor would make that remark about ampeg as he was using them in the early '80s when touring with John Mayall.

Are you sure? I thought he used a large Marshall stack and Fender Twin combo for the Dylan tour.

Mathijs

Not sure about what he was using when he toured with Dylan. Possibly the Marshall/Fender combination as he was certainly using that set up by the late '80s. I'd have to check again but I'm almost positive he was using Ampeg on the Blues Alive DVD which was recorded with Mayall in '82 I think. It was a great sound.

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LieB

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Mathijs
Concerning Ampeg on Exile: my guess is that over 75% of all Keith tracks is recorded with an Ampeg VT-22. Examples: the main riff of Ventilator Blues, Turd on the Run, Casino Boogie are Ampeg for sure. The driving rythm guitar of Tumbling Dice and Stop Breaking Down is Ampeg crunch, the open G guitar of Rip This Joint and Happy are Ampeg. Rocks Off is a combination of Ampeg and Fender Twin or Deluxe. Keith's main guitar on All Down the line and Sould Survivor are Fender amps in my opinion. I think about all Taylor's tracks are, in my opinion, done on a smaller Fender with reverb, so a Deluxe Reverb or simular. Taylor has stated various times that he hated Ampeg amps, and that he couldn't use his prefered Marshall amp as Keith didn't like them.

Of course, they probably used many amps and the album in the end is mixed so that all tracks have the same sound and athmosphere, but the Ampeg stamp clearly is all over the album.

Mathijs

Interesting! I'm gonna listen to Exile through headphones again to get my impression.

It is a crapshoot for us to guess what amps were used where on Exile. But I have to say I agree much with Mathijs. I would say Soul Survivor" is an Ampeg too though. And "Turd" sounds Fender to me. But I agree on Casino, Ventilator, ADTL, Stop Breaking Down, TD, Joint.

I have no experience to distinguish a Ampeg from a Fender but I am guessing Keith would have used something smaller during the recording (eg, Fender Champ). Didn't they record in his basement? I'm thinking he wouldn't be able to get that warm overdriven sound at low volume with his Ampeg.

Anybody have any advice for "Raven" amps for kicking around for ones own enjoyment?

remember it's mick jagger playing the crunching rhythm on "Stop Breaking Down"... though it certainly might be through keith's set-up.