Quote
kleermaker

Quote
71Tele

Quote
kleermaker
<It looks like a terrible career move from this distance (which it was)>

I don't think it was from Taylor's point of view, just for the reason you gave, without the "possibly". Musically, for the band and for us it certainly was.

Well, financially it certainly was. Again, I don't want to put myself in Taylor's head, but I don't think he could think of a way to continue in the band given the dynamics in the group at the time.

As far as I know Taylor never was that much interested in money as the Glimmers. You know he wasn't happy with the tax exile move in 1971. And he was never poor, just wanted to play. Well, he has played a whole lot! But I have the same thoughts as you. He must have felt pushed in a corner when he handed that resignation note to Jagger. I don't know Taylor at all, but he seems a sensitive person to me, and a kind one too. But maybe my fantasy is getting the upper hand now.

I think to say he was not as motivated by money may be true but misses my point a little bit. leaving thr goup meant he has had to struggle financially for the last 35 years. It would not have been the case had he not left, but as Taylor himself has said, he did not envision the band carrying on nearly as long as it did.

Tele, don't you think you exaggerate 'a little bit' when you say "he has had to struggle financially for the last 35 years"? What standards do you apply? I think most people who really have to struggle financially would love to 'struggle financially' like Taylor "has had to".

Quote
kleermaker
Tele, don't you think you exaggerate 'a little bit' when you say "he has had to struggle financially for the last 35 years"? What standards do you apply? I think most people who really have to struggle financially would love to 'struggle financially' like Taylor "has had to".

I think, dear Kleermaker, you may be overestimating the earning capacity of a musician without high record sales or publishing income "a little bit".

Who would you rather share a hot tub with - Ron Jeremy or Ron Wood?

Quote
71Tele
From accounts I have read, Keith was rather cruel toward Taylor, and Taylor's drug use was spiraling out of control. It takes a strong ego (or a very passive one like Bill's or Charlie's) to be in a group with those two personalities. Taylor was also urged to leave by his wife at the time. It looks like a terrible career move from this distance (which it was), but at the time he possibly thought there was no other way out.

Keith is cruel to everybody. Just look at all his comments on Mick J. If Mick had to react on his comments like you are suggesting, Mick Jagger should have left Stones long time ago.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
kleermaker
Tele, don't you think you exaggerate 'a little bit' when you say "he has had to struggle financially for the last 35 years"? What standards do you apply? I think most people who really have to struggle financially would love to 'struggle financially' like Taylor "has had to".

I think, dear Kleermaker, you may be overestimating the earning capacity of a musician without high record sales or publishing income "a little bit".

Tele, I admit that I have no knowledge of Taylor's earning capacity during the last 35 years, but it's hard to believe that he's been struggling financially all those years, as you stated. Which in fact means that he had to fight poverty. That's the reason why I asked for your standards (which you didn't let me know). When you mean that he had to work to earn a decent living, well, that's not so special because most people in the richest parts of the world have to do so 5 or 6 days a week. And most of them don't have the opportunity to earn their living by practising their beloved hobby.

Do you remember that article from the English The Daily Mail (if I'm correct), about 'Taylor's' ruined house and shabby car and the terrible circumstances in which poor Taylor had to live? I had my doubts. So I really don't now about Taylor's financial matters but I doubt that he's (been) living on the border of poverty all those years.

To your point, he's done well enough to not have to get a job in the real world. He's still fortunate enough to make a living doing what he loves.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
To your point, he's done well enough to not have to get a job in the real world. He's still fortunate enough to make a living doing what he loves.

And he could travel to Japan to play, travel to US to play and is according to rumours going to Brazil to play. Not the cheapest in regards to travel costs.

Quote
mtaylor

Quote
71Tele
From accounts I have read, Keith was rather cruel toward Taylor, and Taylor's drug use was spiraling out of control. It takes a strong ego (or a very passive one like Bill's or Charlie's) to be in a group with those two personalities. Taylor was also urged to leave by his wife at the time. It looks like a terrible career move from this distance (which it was), but at the time he possibly thought there was no other way out.

Keith is cruel to everybody. Just look at all his comments on Mick J. If Mick had to react on his comments like you are suggesting, Mick Jagger should have left Stones long time ago.

I think Mick & Keith have their own thing - which no one else can be a part of. This allows them to be cruel to each other without the ramifications it has on other people who might challenge them.

You are right!!!!
Mick and Keith are more like brothers..They love each other, hate each other at times, but at the end of the day
they have a connection that no one other than a brother can have. And not even a wife, other bandmates, etc. could break!

Kleer - I have talked to people close to Taylor and back in the early 2000's
he was struggling financially. Not to the point in the rag mag but he isn't
"well off" by any means... he could use the financial "zolt" a re-connecting
with the Stones would bring - right about now..
And I'm not saying: re-join ther Stones - just sit-in on a couple of shows,
video tape one of them, etc.

MLC

Here is something about Mick Taylor leaving:
[www.myspace.com]

And from Wiki:
In January 1974, while the band began recording the LP It's Only Rock 'n Roll at Musicland Studios in Munich, Taylor missed some of the sessions whilst he underwent surgery for acute sinusitis.[11] When he arrived, he found it difficult to work with Richards. At one point during the Munich sessions, Richards confronted him, and said, "Oi! Taylor! You're playing too @#$%&' loud. I mean, you're really good live, man, but you're @#$%& useless in the studio. Lay out, play later, whatever." Richards erased some of the tapes where Taylor had recorded guitar parts to some of the songs for It's Only Rock n' Roll [12] Taylor was, however, present at all the sessions in April at Stargroves, England, where the LP was finished and most of the overdubs were recorded.[citation needed]

Not long after those recording sessions, Taylor went on a six-week expedition to Brazil, travelling down the Amazon River in a boat and exploring Latin music.

Just before the release of the album in October 1974, Taylor told Nick Kent from the NME magazine about the new LP and that he had co-written "Till the Next Goodbye" and "Time Waits for No One" with Jagger.[citation needed] Kent showed Taylor the record sleeve, which revealed the absence of any songwriting credits for Taylor. In an interview with Gary James, Taylor later said: "I was a bit peeved about not getting credit for a couple of songs, but that wasn't the whole reason [I left the band]. I guess I just felt like I had enough. I decided to leave and start a group with Jack Bruce. I never really felt, and I don't know why, but I never felt I was gonna stay with the Stones forever, even right from the beginning.[5] In a 2009 interview, Taylor said: "We used to fight and argue all the time. And one of the things I got angry about was that Mick had promised to give me some credit for some of the songs – and he didn't. I believed I'd contributed enough. Let's put it this way – without my contribution those songs would not have existed. There's not many but enough, things like "Sway" and "Moonlight Mile" on Sticky Fingers and a couple of others."[13]

In December 1974, Taylor announced he was leaving the Rolling Stones. The bandmates were at a party in London when Taylor told Mick Jagger he was quitting and walked out. Taylor's decision came as a total shock to many.[14] The Rolling Stones were due to start recording a new album in Munich, and the entire band was reportedly angry at Taylor for leaving at such short notice.[15].

Mick Jagger, in a 1995 interview with Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone magazine, said Taylor never explained why he had left, and surmised that "[Taylor] wanted to have a solo career. I think he found it difficult to get on with Keith." In the same interview Jagger said of Taylor's contribution to the band: "I think he had a big contribution. He made it very musical. He was a very fluent, melodic player, which we never had, and we don't have now. Neither Keith nor [Ronnie Wood] plays that kind of style. It was very good for me working with him ... Mick Taylor would play very fluid lines against my vocals. He was exciting, and he was very pretty, and it gave me something to follow, to bang off. Some people think that's the best version of the band that existed".[4] Asked if he agreed with that assessment, Jagger said: "I obviously can't say if I think Mick Taylor was the best, because it sort of trashes the period the band is in now."[4] Charlie Watts stated: "I think we chose the right man for the job at that time just as Ronnie was the right man for the job later on. I still think Mick is great. I haven't heard or seen him play in a few years. But certainly what came out of playing with him are musically some of the best things we've ever done".[16][page needed] Another statement, made by Keith Richards, is: "Mick Taylor is a great guitarist, but he found out the hard way that that's all he is".[17]

In an essay about the Rolling Stones, printed after Taylor's resignation, music critic Robert Palmer of The New York Times wrote that "Taylor is the most accomplished technician who ever served as a Stone. A blues guitarist with a jazzman's flair for melodic invention, Taylor was never a rock and roller and never a showman."[citation needed]

Taylor has worked with his former bandmates on various occasions since leaving the Rolling Stones. In 1977 he attended London-based sessions for the John Phillips album Pay Pack and Follow, appearing on several tracks alongside Jagger (vocals), Richards (guitar) and Wood (bass) - taking notable solos on the songs "Oh Virginia" and "Zulu Warrior". A possibly apocryphal story is that after Taylor played a particularly jaw-dropping solo in the studio, Richards half-jokingly exclaimed, "That's why I never liked you, you bastard!"

On 14 December 1981 he performed with the band at their concert at the Kemper Arena in Kansas City, Missouri.[7] Keith Richards appeared on stage at a Mick Taylor show at the Lone Star Cafe in New York on 28 December 1986, jamming on "Key to the Highway" and "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"; and Taylor is featured on one track ("I Could Have Stood You Up") on Richards' 1988 album Talk is Cheap. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducted Mick Taylor along with the Rolling Stones in 1989.[18] Taylor also worked with Bill Wyman's Rhythm Kings in the early 1990s.

In March 2010, it was leaked by several sources that, at Mick Jagger's request, Taylor contributed guitar work on the upcoming Exile on Main Street special edition release. This release includes 10 outtakes/alternate versions of songs (some of which are likely to contain Taylor's new overdubs). The release is also slated to include the first official home video release of the Ladies and Gentlemen: The Rolling Stones concert film from the 1972 tour (it has been officially shown in theaters before).

As can be seen, they worked together after the split in 1977 in a John Phillips project: [mick.us] - result is on John Phillips record Pussycat / Pay Pack & Follow.

The problems with Keith are without doubt because of Keiths immense drug use, where he didn't know what he was doing and saying. Later Keith and Mick T. have been working well togtether - both on stage for Stones, for Mick T and in studio.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-31 22:37 by mtaylor.

Quote
mtaylor
The problems with Keith are without doubt because of Keiths immense drug use, where he didn't know what he was doing and saying.

I agree with that, and it would be very difficult to be in a band with someone in it in that state, I can see why he left. Who would have thought at the time they'd still be active in 2010?

Its amazing they were able to carry on, and that Keith survived, because many people around the band didn't. Taylor was very lucky as well, in my opinion. Its a shame that after leaving the Stones, things didn't work out for him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-31 22:54 by urbanjungle90.

Citation needed.

REALLY?

He didn't conform it because it isn't true.

Don Was is a putz...

WHy Mick doesn't understand he needs to get as far away from Was as possible I'll never understand

Guess he just trusts him

Quote
skipstone
Citation needed.

REALLY?

Just copied from Wiki - not me requiering )

Quote
AngieBlue
It seems that MT was looking for a Jagger/Richards/Taylor trifecta that just wasn't going to happen. There is an interview done in Holland in '73 where that seems very apparent to me. He should have known better given what had happened with Brian, but I'm sure youth and talent wouldn't hear it. Still a shame he left the way he did.

how much was generally known then about brian's (lack of ) credits? he wasn'n much of a stones fan.
obviously the stones were the perfect vehicle for mick t's talents , without a doubt. a shame indeed.

Quote
straycatblues73

Quote
AngieBlue
It seems that MT was looking for a Jagger/Richards/Taylor trifecta that just wasn't going to happen. There is an interview done in Holland in '73 where that seems very apparent to me. He should have known better given what had happened with Brian, but I'm sure youth and talent wouldn't hear it. Still a shame he left the way he did.

obviously the stones were the perfect vehicle for mick t's talents , without a doubt. a shame indeed.

Not obviously. It's very difficult to fit in their music for a guitar player like Taylor, especially in the studio. On stage is another matter, but though. As he said himself he liked to play on stage the most.

If you want to know how Taylor is doing financially, check Nico's site. When he has money he does...not much. Leaving the Stones (I assume with some money), take most of the remaining decade off. Cut a record? Get an advance? Take the next year or two off (and do not actually perform any songs from the album until 7 years later!). Tour with Dylan? Take '85 off. Keith is right in a way, but he is being hypocritical. Taylor may not be always motivated, but he did not have Jagger to do the leg-work.

But money aside the fact remains that Taylor has done more in his life than most of us have. He's brought pleasure to many people. If he is happy, more power to him. I would just like to feel some inspiration from him (and some new songs).

He certainly brought pleasure to many people and even more than that. He still has many fans. When you take a look at YT you can read so many positive comments on him. He seems a very interesting person to me. Would be wonderful to meet him and even more being friends with him. I suppose.

I found it interesting that Mick mentions in the Rolling Stone article that some of the licks that he and Keith thought were great and were Mick T from back in the Exile time were actually BB King from around 10 years ago.......wonder how those tracks sound???

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
71Tele

Quote
kleermaker
<It looks like a terrible career move from this distance (which it was)>

I don't think it was from Taylor's point of view, just for the reason you gave, without the "possibly". Musically, for the band and for us it certainly was.

Well, financially it certainly was. Again, I don't want to put myself in Taylor's head, but I don't think he could think of a way to continue in the band given the dynamics in the group at the time.

As far as I know Taylor never was that much interested in money as the Glimmers. You know he wasn't happy with the tax exile move in 1971. And he was never poor, just wanted to play. Well, he has played a whole lot! But I have the same thoughts as you. He must have felt pushed in a corner when he handed that resignation note to Jagger. I don't know Taylor at all, but he seems a sensitive person to me, and a kind one too. But maybe my fantasy is getting the upper hand now.

I think Taylor wouldn't have quit, being in the same situation,after all those years.

Quote
Marhsall
Why on earth should Ron Wood be hurt for MT playing some overdubs on these old takes? I mean, they are not overdubbing on Some Girls outtakes ...


VERY good point! AGREE 100%

I also never heard Ronnie complaining about keeping Mick Taylor's solo in Tops when they released it seven years after he replaced him.