There pprobably are not too many Sitar experts here. On "Gomper" the bulk of the song consists of that long Raga-style jam. My guess is that this is the reason it is so often derided, the buttend of jokes, and just not taken seriously. Because the beginning part with the vox is actually quite good.
Anyway, it is pretty much accepted that Brian is playing all that stuff on a Sitar. Now I am no expert but to me this has never sounded much like a Sitar. If someone asked me I would probably say it was a Sitar too. but maybe only because I don't know what ELSE it could be; and Sitar comes closest. It is surely no Sarod, which is (I think) an instrument with a slightly lower register, a bit dryer; not as big a resonance chamber. Smaller gourd LOL (The outboard gear in an Indian recording studio consists of many different sized gourds...)
Maybe Brian's sitar was either not played the classicla way; i.e. he strum sit in an unorthodox manner and gets a different sound. Or they recorded it in a weird way. What I am missing are the drones. Sitar has a bunch of strings that only drone and they give that low twang and buzz. But as "Gomper" goes on the notes get fastre and shorter. They sound like these "quacks". "Quack quack quack". enough to give Ravi Shankar a headache.
Does anyone else know more about this?

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

Hey Chelsea....Maybe we could get Nora Jones to ask her dad...I reckon he'd know



ROCKMAN

The problem is, you have to listen to "Gomper" again in order to answer this question, which I don't want to do.

the first half of Gomper is most enjoyable to play on the mandolin. sounds quite alot like it, actually. maybe even a tad superior.

I LIKE Gomper, as I posted elsewhere today, I think...I find it engrossing, and what makes Brian a much more intersting sitar player than say Harrison is he uses it as a 'rock' instrument, as he used everything he picked up...Not intimidated by it's traditional usage, and no "Withinin You Without You" thank god..

I love this track too (& the whole album). Interesting question about which instrument is used but I can't help I'm afraid, though I shall look into it. Originally I only loved the beautiful dreamy start of the song and felt let down that it was abandoned for the jam but after a while I really got into the second half: it has a mesmerising effect if you surrender yourself; a shimmering hothouse haze which seems saturated with sound, an aural hallucinogen leading to sensory overload...

i read somewhere not too long ago about what was non-traditional about the way Brian played sitar ...
but i need to locate a lot more caffeine before i even try to remember where i saw that.

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

Who contributes that weird vocal part towards the end? It doesn't sound like Mick.

Sounds like he added his fave mellotron to the mix, or distorted or filtered some of the sound, but I also hear Brian's piercing flute & percussion, he clearly got involved in that song...Yes, I believe it's a sitar, & there's a guitar (KR) in there...Is this the one with claves???

You guys, stop teasing the dude...The whole thing was done with a $150.00 BOSS sound effects box bought at Guitar Center.....

Hahaha! Yeah, one light blue pedal set on 'endless repeat' and you accidetally hit one string and go home...

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

I don't believe this is sitar one bit.
The other poster makes me think this just might be a mandolin. There is a track on Johnny Winter's Second Winter entitled "I'm Not Sure", where he plays electric mandolin, and the timber is very similar to that lead instrument in Gomper's jam part.
Love Gomper BTW! Very pretty tune!

This is one mixed up song as per say were the skinny english cats at the time.

Brian Jones plays Tabla,Flute,Mellotron & sitars on Gomper.
Nicky Hopkins was on organ.
Lead vocal was Mick & background vocals Mick & Keith
Bass played by Bill Wyman and Keith on electric guitars
No sign of Charlie on this track

(Jagger, Richards)

By the lake with lilly flowers
Wallow away the evening hours
To and fro she's gently gliding
On the glassy lake she's riding
She swims to the side
The sun sees her dried
The birds hover high
I'd stifle a cry
The birds hover high
She moans with a sigh



The songs construction and the lyrics are total proof that this track was written /played in a drug fueled haze by the 'Stones in 1967 along with the other songs on TSMR during their psychedelic experience.
Gomper (originally 'The Ladies,The Lilies and the Lake is full of organ sighs and the mysteries of Tibet - a swamp of sound.
Gomper is in fact the Tibetan term for the journey some Tibetan monks make while under the influenze of hypnosis.

It's strange how Brian doesn't recieve songwriting credits for this track despite playing virtually every instrument.

ROCKMAN

Stone40:

>Brian Jones plays Tabla,Flute,Mellotron & sitars on Gomper.
Nicky Hopkins was on organ.
Lead vocal was Mick & background vocals Mick & Keith
Bass played by Bill Wyman and Keith on electric guitars
No sign of Charlie on this track<

Very interesting replies. But where does that info come from?

I've also read that brian differed from george in his approach to indian instruments, that he quickly found a way to play them the way he wanted to, while george took hours to play a few licks, because he was interested in doing it the traditional way. But that's an odd contrast to brian's devoted learning of the blues harmonica and slide guitar, isn't it? I guess he picked his deities, or he just changed his mind about how to approach new instruments.

"Gomper is in fact the Tibetan term for the journey some Tibetan monks make while under the influenze of hypnosis." I imagine you mean meditation here unless some Tibetan Paul McKenna does temple rounds.

Excuse the trainspotter in me but I think those lyrics are suspect too:
(sounds to me like) "While away the evening hours" & "I stifle a cry"

I always loved that original title 'The Lady, The Lillies & The Lake' which conjures up Arthurian images, Lady of Shalott, Ophelia etc. But I guess if they were trying to evoke the mysteries of Tibet (this is certainly true of 'The Lantern') then 'Gomper' is more apt.

sorry to be so obtuse, but what's Tibetan about The Lantern?

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

Hey Rockman, I somehow missed that article when I first scrolled down. It's fascinating (thanks for sharing it) & strangely bears out my fanciful Arthurian notions! Sounds like a great place to visit next time I'm in France.

with sssoul - umm, I may have overstepped the mark a bit as when I look at the lyrics again it's not as specific as I recall. However, the bell tolling at the beginning (universal symbol of enlightenment) , "we, in our present life" suggesting Buddhist reincarnation, conversing with the dead "talking to me through your veil" the cloak being "a spirit shroud" (I'm sure I read about a Tibetan reference in this line somewhere but will have to dig out old Stones books). The waking me "like a cloud" seems like a Buddhist image & of course the lantern light itself held high (by a spirit beyond death) could be the pure enlightenment that is the goal of the Tibetan journey. OK yeah, all as vague as hell but bear in mind the Stones had read 'The Tibetan Book Of The Dead' at the time...

Back in 1967 when pop critics were trying to comprehend what the earth 'Gomper
' was all about some knowledgeable people described it as being full of organ sighs and the mystery of Tibet.
At that particular mysterious phschedelic time who the hell really knew what this song was all about.
Songs by Jagger/Richards after 'She a Rainbow/2000 Light Years from Home were so indoctorated by the the events during 1967 which overtook the 'Stones' and landed 'Mick & Keith' in jail.
Mick has often described the 1st two as being really good songs but the rest were pure nonsense and they were bit part recording sessions when the 'Stones'
never recorded together but was interpersed with other peoples collaberations.
The end result was one of the 'Stones' least enjoyable or understandable albums and that remains so to this day.

Other peoples' collaboration? I hear Brian all over the place, and he was a member of the Stones, wasn't he? As far as TSMR being the least enjoyable Stones album, that's your opinion. I personally think it's interesting and pretty good.

Absolutely yes! TSMR is an excellent album from the era. I love the way it evokes a particular mood and set of emotions and experiences in a fantasy landscape. The perfect lp for 1967. Sure it wasn't "Surrealistic Pillow" but how many records were like that one? I first heard TMSR as a kid when I checked it out at the library on vinyl. It holds a special place in my heart. The mono version is especially worthwhile.

Charles Baudelaire
1821-1867

When ya opened the gate fold cover of the original vinyl release it always gave off a strange incense like fragrance...what was it? And how come they didn't include it on the SACD reissue...?



ROCKMAN

Haha! My old vynil album was steeped in patchouli. LOL, never got rid of the aroma on tht cover; actually even the disc itself.
I find TSMR very enjoyable; since this is the term we are using.The only tune I find boring for some reason is "Citadel". And Jagger must know more than anyone else if their sessions were hijacked. Or better: if they let themsleves be hijacked. Maybe Jagger feels that by there not being the traditional setup of guitars, bass, piano and drums, everyhting felt ...off. "Sing This.."has many horns and percussion. Was that really all Stones? Then you got Nicky and Brian really dominating "Rainbow", "2000 Lightyears","Show", "Gomper". "In Another Land" is barely Stones. That leaves a long jam, "2000 Man" and "Citadel". From the Outtakes"Satanic Sessions" one can plainly tell how much labored and tedious the "Citadel" sessions were.Doesn't sound like there was 'magic' in the air;like Keith's antennae was on LOL.
"The Lantern" tome doesn't sound at all Eastern. Although mystical it feel stotally European tome. Much like "Blue Jay Way" is not the sari.sitar kind of mystic, but the English foggy afternoon mystic.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

>> OK yeah, all as vague as hell but bear in mind the Stones had read 'The Tibetan Book Of The Dead' <<

thanks Tseverin - actually all those images/associations seem equally relevant to *any* belief system that includes a life-after-death concept,
and (to me) more like one with a "spirit world" type of afterlife concept, rather than reincarnation.
plus which that bell doesn't sound like a Tibetan bell - but far be it from me to try to limit the layers of meaning in an evocative lyric.
thanks for the interesting elucidation.

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

Any chance it's a tambura and not a sitar?

Ain't the tambura the upright instrument that does the drone behind, for instance, R. Shankar's improvisations?

The instrument Jones plays in that tune has a much "drier" tone I would say. Perhaps one of those indian instruments after all, but modified with some pick-up, or played with a mediator maybe...

Mick is not the best judge of his own music; few artists are, & the Stones as we know, tell us they dont grapple with the relative qualities of this or that record from their past ....I mean Keith's basement was humid, everyone strung out, hangers on, depressing environment, so Exile's not that great an album??
I HEAR a sitar, Brian's likely more involved in "Gomper" (mesmerizing) & "2000 Light Years" than most other tracks on this mostly very smart album that is hardly coming out of any lowest-common-denominator hippie sensibility. Plenty of satire on there too.

Mick chops & changes his mind about Satanic Majesties (amongst many other things). In the Whistle Test special from '85 where he is interviewed by David Hepworth strolling along a beach in Barbados, he counters Hepworth's assertion that it was a mistake saying he thought it was a very good album & that the Stones should make "mistakes" like that more often.

Rockman, were you floating with Lucy in the sky every time you went to play the album? This might explain the fragrance: sights becoming smells etc. Or perhaps there is a more naturalistic answer, the record shop you bought it from was probably a hippie hang-out with incense burning all day long & the smell seeped into the cardboard...