I'm sure this topic has been done to death, but I was reading an interesting website last night ( [www.godgammeldags.nu] ) which gave Bill a lot more credit on playing the bass than he probably did. Don't get me wrong, I wish he played more on the albums, but if you peruse the site, it gives him additional bass credits for stuff that Keith definitely played on.

Anyway, it got me thinking - when exactly did the rift between Keith and Bill start, and what ended it? You always hear Keith constantly praising Charlie and, to a lesser extent, Ronnie, but he rarely, if ever, mentions Bill. I know toward the mid 80s he started to mellow out, and Bill even - shock! horror! - played bass on Keith's two self-sung songs on Steel Wheels, something that hadn't happened since 'You Got The Silver'. Was their rift ever patched up? Obviously, a whole new rift opened with Bill leaving the Stones, but that's not what I'm trying to get at.

I've also looked through a few of the books written about Keith, which hardly mention Bill, except to give the impression that he was a miserable person who left the band out of spite. I never really got that impression - I always believed that he wanted to go out on top, and he really did, I think. Though he admits the Steel Wheels / Urban Jungle tour wasn't his favorite, he still knew that significance and decided to bow out gracefully - and Keith, it seems, hasn't forgiven him since.

Anyone know the real deal here?

Bill did the right thing IMHO

From all the things I have read KR and BW just had different personalities from the get go. Bill was older, married and pretty "square" compared to MJ, KR, BJ.

From KR's point of view BW must have gotten even more straight when KR was smashed on the junk.

If you look back over their history I think its fair to say that Keith probably goofed on Bill in many different ways. Playing the bass part or overdubbing Bill's part did not help at all. KR may have also resented BW's musical knowledge...Bill could read music, he knew what notes were played,etc. He had the technical knowledge that KR did not.

I think Bill tolerated a lot of crap because he knew he was part of the gravy train. From his own book he was always counting pennies, I think he saw the projected income from Steel Wheels, cashed in and called it quits.

Will we ever know? Depends if you believe what you read. Some people just don't get on all that well...it's that simple

Milo, NYC
Pary high on a platter

Bill tolerated it??? lol....HE was a ROLLING STONE!!! in the band......he took care of kieth on many occasions...he hates to fly...no more concorde...........he left so be it.........i am sure they are still tight..and by the way any friend of Charlies is a freind of mine!!!

I was always under the impression (I think I've read it somewhere) that Bill and Keith were really close during Keith's rehab, that Bill was the closest to Keith... Am I wrong?

Who the f*ck is Mick Jagger?

I think they "reconciled" somewhat in the early eighties, probably once Mick started to drift away from Keith. I don't think they were as close as Ronnie and Keith were, especially considering Bill only plays bass on three tracks from Dirty Work, which is largely considered to be Keith's album, but I guess Keith realized that Bill was a pretty integral part of the band and started to respect him and his input more.

Well, they didnt talk for many years; but that seems to
have been a result of mutual misunderstanding, right?

Bill and Keith are poles apart, they have very little in common except for the band stuff. Bill says in his book Stone Alone, he wouldn't have chosen any of them as friends or buddies if he hadn't been in the band.
Keith resented Bill for having his own mind and leaving the band, Bill was sick of zero recognition for his part in the band. He detested Keiths drug problem, the hanging around, the never knowing what was going to happen next. Mr Wyman is a very orderly person, KR is about the opposite in every way.

And orderly persons dont become Great artists.
We also have to remember Bill was much older;
an age gap that must have been very obvious from the start...
They picked on Bill cuase he liked Elvis (but soon they all did);
he had a family and a 'life'. The parts in Stone Alone
where Bill describes the filth at Edith Grove is just wonderful imho.

The mix of personalities the Stones offer is great I think;
from Stu over Brian & Keith to Mick & Charlie; Ron,
Taylor - and all the satellites...

At one point, Bill was probably the most "professional" of the guys as far as being on time and being prepared. He has readily admitted in his books how Keith's unpredictable behavior, especially in his heroin days, drove him even further away than he had been. But no amount of professionalism could shake the axis of power that is the Gimmertwins. And junkies are notoriously impatient with "straights", they see structure as a threat and a put down. After all part of being a junkie is refusing to admit that your behavior may be inapproriate.Lilly Tomlin once quiiped, she was " afraid drugs were forcing us to be more creative than we really are."

Perhaps belatedly Keith did become effusive about how "his band" had the greatest rythym section in the world with Charlie and Bill. And yet, when Bill decided to leave, Keith belittled his part in the sound again for a while.

Hey, these are a bunch of guys that have played in a band many many times longer than most bands survived. They started as kids bonded by music and grew into very differnt individual adults. In one of the many video interviews , keitrh has even admitted that were he and MJ ever to divorce, they would be bonded by their "kids", the music. I think the big part of the divide is just that, the guys just grew up.

Bill says in UNCUT today that Keith still sends him a Xmas present every year, so I guess theyre hardly estranged (see the other recent "Bill" thread for more)

unless that Xmas present is a facsimile of KR's yearly pay statement....

I hope not as it's a candle!

In his book Bill says that they did not speak with each other for eight years from 1969 on and that Ron Wood brought them together on the 1978 US tour. If you feel you are a rock legend like Keith it is not uncommon to minimize other bans members' roles but on the other hand a band consisting of only Micks, Keiths and Brians could never have survived for so long. You also need some solid, unspectacular people who back up the 'stars' like Bill and Charlie.

They are just categorically different personalities. Once again I am reminded that truly great bands are made up of strong personalities on every front. Strong and also radically different. Of course they will disagree.
But even before Ronbnie supposedly brought them together, there is the story where Bill of all people went out to cop for Keith when he was dopesick in Canada. Even Jagger abnd Ron had flown the coop.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."