What do you guys think happened to 'A Bigger Bang' in the U.S.? Why did it do worse than 'Voodoo Lounge' and 'Bridges to Babylon' even though it's a better album by most accounts? Do you think it's been too long between albums? The fact that there's no video for any of the songs yet? I'm EXTREMELY saddened and perplexed,as I'm sure the Rolling Stones and Virgin are.
What else could they have done??????????

- Maybe the GREAT, IMPRESSIVE, MAGNIFICENT and SMART idea of putting the WHOLE album available online on the official website is not that GREAT, IMPRESSIVE, MAGNIFICENT and SMART idea after all.

- Maybe because the right release date was on Aug. 23 with the tour hype. The US #1 album during that week only sold 101k.
Who the hell will release an album two weeks after the tour start?
Only the Stones are on my mind.

- Maybe because a VERY smart idea of the Virgin team came out on late July:
"let's compete with the gang of rappers, we'll win against the guy with the current US #1 single."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-15 07:11 by georgelicks.

You are very wise, Mr. Licks. They really shot themselves in the foot.
I hope that with the tour going through March that at least it will be a STEADY seller and that the "enhanced" version will help sell some more.
I bought 12 copies to give out, myself, because I was so proud of it. Now everyone is going to read about "Stones Stumble In Sales" and "Popularity of New Stones Music Waning" and the like.
I really, really, truly and honestly think that we are seeing the end of the Stones because of this...I think it was important for them to stay SOMEWHAT current and if a new album from them after EIGHT years can't do better than this, then any succeeding albums will do worse and worse (look at the sales for Eric Clapton's new one...that's where the Stones will go).
If Paul McCartney does better with his new album, I'm off music for good. (it already kills me that a huge number of people find U2's records and shows more exciting than ones by the Stones).
I finally feel old...and I haven't even been to the two shows I'm going to see...I hope the band, therefore the audiences, are not dispirited by all of this. I was really looking forward to a show like the ones you guys who have attended have been raving about.
Maybe they'll work harder now and play more songs from 'A Bigger Bang'..."Streets of Love" is catchy..."She Saw Me Coming" on the B-stage with Ronnie, Keith and Chuck singing those ragged choruses (let Ron sing since this is it, probably....pull out all the stops...swing for the fences...what have you got to lose???????).

I agree that putting the whole album out on RS.com was wrong. It took away from the whole anticipation and from more people actually going out to buy it. It is so odd to see the Stones in third place after a couple of thugs who possess no musical talent. It is so sad to see that true music is not even appreciated. It is ironic and it makes me angry when I realize that all these rappers sample true music and use it to sell their crap. People eat it up. They eat it up and do not realize that they are just hearing a great rhythm or beat from REAL MUSIC ! The music industry is in a sad state. The art of making records and making music is gone. Still, the Stones, as long as they have been around should be at least a little proud that they can still make an impression on the market. On the other hand, it just makes me want to vomit knowing that they were beat out by a couple of no talent, musically illiterate THUGS. It makes me SICK !!

Get over it people, the Stones will never have another #1. Doesn't mean they are any less great. I still love them irregardless. I don't think putting the album online hurt sales. Ånybody who likes the Stones enough to check out the new album before it came out probably bought it anyway. Does anyone know of someone who was going to buy A Bigger Bang when it came out, but then didn't when it was online in advance? Give me a break.

I do agree they could have been number one by coming out a few weeks earlier. Stupid move on their part, but I guess they didn't have it finished by then (it went down to the wire from what I understand).

I am glad there are still 129,000 hardcore Stones fans who bought ABB the first week. More than any other rock band; we're number one on the rock charts (if such a chart even exists). So what if Voodoo Lounge did 150,000 or whatever. Music sales are down in general. VL didn't go to number one either. Let's face it, with the average age of the Stones audience, 21,000 of the hardcore fans have probably either died or given up music since 1994.

The bottom line is the Stones have released a great new album, best since Some Girls IMO. And the guitars are up and the keyboards, etc. down on the new tour. The setlists have been good but not great and will get better. They are still the World's Greatest Rock 'N' Roll Band. As long as the mighty Led Zeppelin stays retired



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-15 08:15 by pafult01.

It's pretty simple:

1) The prime "album buying" age is probably 15 to 25. For these people the Stones is an interesting band, but it's not a "current" band like the rappers, pretty-girls, etc. that dominate teenage music today.

2) As or more important: ABB is getting VERY LITTLE RADIO PLAY.

I'm also surprised they didn't use a song in a commercial, like U2 and Jet did for iPod, I believe it was...it certainly got those songs heard before they were on the radio. Also, Michael McDonald had a surprise platinum seller a few years ago by putting a song in a commercial, even though nothing from that album ('Motown') got airplay. Even Dylan had a song (and himself) in a "Victoria's Secret" commercial.
Really bad planning all-around. I think that, if they intend to go on, they should leave Virgin, which I think I read is in some financial straits, and go somewhere that could market them differently.
I think the strong material is there....there's an audience there, judging from the concert attendance and the publicity...I just think they need a new team and new ideas. Playing 5 seconds of music from "Rough Justice" on an NFL commercial just doesn't cut it.

Just face it, album oriented rock is over. The Stones are one of the few bands who actually release albums that are meant to be heard in completion. That simply doesnt seem to appeal to the mass markets these days. People my age just want to download "this and that" from thousands of artists. I look through what others would call a "collection" and I find tons of artists, but only a handful of tracks of each artist. Kids these days arent loyal to one band, or one style, they're eclectic and manipulated by FM radio playlists. Whatever is hot, thats what they download, thats what they listen to. They dont care about albums.

The big mistake with this album was to release it AFTER the start of the tour. Very very bad move. Maybe its Virgin's fault. Maybe its just the fact that people are dumb.

Maybe its the cover art. (If I had done the art it would have been the dragon from the Pembrokes Castle poster - the concert that never happened - melting a red vinyl with huge flames!!! THE ROLLING STONES - ROUGH JUSTICE would be the only text on the front)

Of course, after all my ranting, I do realise that only THREE artists on this week's BILLBOARD charts sold more than 100,000 copies...and the Rolling Stones were one of them! The other two being new rap artists with smash hit singles on the radio. Really not bad for a 43-year-old rock 'n roll band! That would be like a big Dixieland jazz band that formed in 1930 having a #3 album in 1972 when the Rolling Stones were king!
And with album sales in general as bad as they are...
I guess it's a case of,"Is the glass half-full, or half-empty?"

Look to the rest of the sales in other countries. There we have so many number one shots.

In two words - bad marketing

I think the general trend is of less physical albums being sold for everyone, not just the Stones.

Also there is the power of Itunes....when you add the download sales to the physical record sales then I would guess it would be closer to the estimation in the article.

Lets face - if you buy the CD all you get is crap cover art and nothing in particular in the booklet - its very uninspiring this time - so you would not actually feel like you are missing much by downloading it...

Also the Stones on record are just not as popular as they once were....the majority of millions who turn-out for the concerts are corporate "fans" who distort the market and push the ticket prices beyond the reach of real fans....keep rocking the golden circle boys!

The album isn't number one because the average runny-nosed 19 year old has been programmed to listen to the tripe (I certainly can't refer to it as "music") that is popular today.

What difference does it make how many copies ABB sells, as long as it sells enough that the boys do another one.

This is very paradoxical. You can get the album for free on Rollingstones.com and in the same time you can read on the CD cover that there is copy control to limit the cd copy.
Perhaps is it a commercial approach. The guy who surfs on the website could see he has the possibility to buy ticket for shows and many others things like T-shirts, calendar... Don't forget they have created this website to make MONEY. This is just a STORE. Nothing is innocent!

i dont see a problem really,its a dam good album..its sold well in its first week. top 5 in most countys.....but as gazza said in another post, the goal post hase changed so much since the stones started out 43 years ago....technology has changed so to, what with people downloading and so.. and also the music taste have changed.but the stones are still here fighting and making an impression..one thing i will say, where was virgin when you need them...a few good tele adverts last week would have put the stones at no 1...it dont take a brain surgeon to get the marketing right...but i do think over time the album will sell well...because theres word of mouth..and you cant keep a good album down..plus the fact the tour will trundle on for a year or so.

Not really sure what you guys are talking about. The news release on Yahoo says the 129,000 copies are the "most ever for a Stones studio release". Let's face it, the Stones have never set sales records with their albums. Seems like #3 is pretty impressive in a market where the majority of buyers are 12-19 years old.

Karl

They've tried every marketing angle imaginable (the NeoCon 'hullaballo' which may well have hurt more than it helped, the NFL tie-in, behind the scenes interviews, mucho story placement by their crack PR team working overtime, etc)on top of the tour. Unfortunately there is no radio format to play a Bruce Springsteen or Rolling Stones in the United States anymore. The pop radio all skews too young and the so-called classic rock stations have nothing left but the dregs of their audience who don't want to hear a new song by anybody or it'll cut into their Skynyrd or Pink Floyd listening. The cream of their audience all bought satellite radio.

Two weeks ago "Rough Justice" got 408 spins throughout the entire United States over a seven day period.

"Streets Of Love" seems ready made for female friendly adult-contemporary stations but likely closer to Christmas might it be released to them.

"The news release on Yahoo says the 129,000 copies are the "most ever for a Stones studio release".

that statement is simply nonsense

I also dont think the problem with piracy and downloading will affect the Stones any more than other acts, nor should the fact that the band dont appeal to teenagers

Older people have more disposable income to buy Cds. they're also less likely to download or pirate music.

the Stones dont or shouldnt need to rely on kids or casual fans to help their Cds sell better. Fact is, that over a quarter of a million people have seen them in the US so far on this tour and at present theyve sold over 1 million tickets in that country. They'll play to about 1.25 million people in the USA before they finish there in March (I'm excluding the Canadians from this). That fanbase alone should be sizeable enough to guarantee them a number 1 record in the first week that their album came out as all of those people would be aware they have a new album. Despite shelling out hundreds of dollars on tickets, at least 90% of those people couldnt be arsed spending $12 or so to buy a CD.

The way this album has been marketed is insane. No promo video released to accompany the single and despite the fact that at Stones concerts you can spend a months wages on some of the tackiest,overpriced merchandise imaginable, you cant buy the band's ALBUM (so I;ve been told, anyway)

That fact alone shows that when it comes to sales, the band are their management are more concerned with selling t-shirts and anything they can put a tongue logo on than they are about promoting the band's music, which one would have liked to have thought was the reason for their continued existence. For those who doubt that these days the brand name is more important than the music, there's your proof

So you people really think that #3 in the US is that bad? I think it's a good accomplishment for the Stones!

"got to be worked on
don't have no bark nor bite..."

The albums are recorded for their own pleasure and fun.They have not something to prove. They pay people to fill in their bank accounts with different ways

Isn't ABB doing great in Europe? It's # 1 in many countries including Italy (for the very first time!). I see a lot of promotion around here: stores are packed with tongues and the radio is playing it very often...

That's the glass' half empty bul....t

N°3 is no N° 1 (yet) but is great, what a bunch of crap...Stumble my ar**

I just hope they start playing more new songs.

Wild Slivovitz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you people really think that #3 in the US is
> that bad? I think it's a good accomplishment for
> the Stones!


considering the amount it sold and the amount of fans who buy their concert tickets, yes, I'd consider it to have "under achieved"

# 3 in the US within a highlighted tour is a poor score. I would have hoped that this time with such potential blockbusters tracks they would have top the # 1 position by attracting the 30 years old people who remember Start me up and some tracks of Steel Whheels. Apparently it is not the case . Dommage....Because this album is one of the Stones we will listen top with great pleasure in the coming years.

I think that sales a greater than Stones have ever expected them to be!
#3 in USA, #1 in Canada and #1 in so many euro charts for a legendary band with a great new album is a great success.
Teenagers have always been the main music buyers, and Stones are no rap or boys band singers. Guys be real and don't care much about charts.

"Sales lower than expected?". Who expected more? And why? According to the first indications ABB will sell simply well in the USA and very, very well in Europe. That means an ADMIRABLE STABILITY, after so many decades...
OK, #3 is good, but don't take SO seriously the peak position. In other weeks ABB could be #1 with 100,000 copies or #4 with 150,000 units (rare case the second one of course, because the whole sales in the last years are very low). You can see on Billboard the albums of Foo Figthers and of Killers. The first is platinum with #2. The second one is 2platinum with #7. So look basicaly at the sales, not at the chart's position...

PS 1 Jack Knife wrote: "It already kills me that a huge number of people find U2's records and shows more exciting than ones by the Stones".
Of course U2 are the biggest rock "monsters" as album sellers, but the Stones remain the best selling and most popular live act in the world. You will see the whole numbers when the tours will be finished...

PS 2 Gazza wrote : "I also dont think the problem with piracy and downloading will affect the Stones any more than other acts"
Yes Gazza, not more, but not less too. I did a kind of "poll" asking 16 friends of mine who already have listened to ABB. Buying 5, downloading 11!! (All of them at the age of 20- 35, i'm the older guy between them...)

MUSIC SALES ARE DOWN DRASTICALLY overall....When Voodoo Lounge came out, there was no such thing as online file sharing. These days, if you want an album, you can download it for free in minutes. It's no shock if sales are lower than they were 10 years ago, THAT'S THE CASE FOR THE WHOLE MUSIC INDUSTRY.

I'll echo what others have already said about formatted corporate radio being a big factor - rock and roll as played on FM radio from the late 1960s on in the U.S. is dead and buried

HOWEVER

I think as the tour goes on and word of mouth praise spreads, the album sales will remain steady. I think it will probably sell more in the U.S. than Vodoo Lounge and Bridges to Overproduction in the end.

Gazza Wrote:
>
> The way this album has been marketed is insane. No
> promo video released to accompany the single and
> despite the fact that at Stones concerts you can
> spend a months wages on some of the
> tackiest,overpriced merchandise imaginable, you
> cant buy the band's ALBUM (so I;ve been told,
> anyway)
>
> That fact alone shows that when it comes to sales,
> the band are their management are more concerned
> with selling t-shirts and anything they can put a
> tongue logo on than they are about promoting the
> band's music, which one would have liked to have
> thought was the reason for their continued
> existence. For those who doubt that these days the
> brand name is more important than the music,
> there's your proof

Gazza: Don't think I ever before heard someone criticize the Stones for poor marketing! Everytime I've turned on the telly the past three weeks I've seen them on mortgage company ads, Fox News editorials, NFL football games, etc, etc, etc. If you feel they're pushing merchandise, at the expense of their CDs, well what really is the difference? Maybe I don't understand your disctinction between their "brand name" and the "music"?

Even the CD sales numbers are somewhat irrelevant in that they have in effect sold many copies of the disc via their Fan Club membership fees. Plus, they are no doubt going to release a "collector's" version of ABB around Christmas, with a DVD or whatever. If this isn't profit-maximization ("marketing"), I don't know what is!

Karl




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-15 17:18 by KSIE.

One thing that you don´t mention: ABB is a good album but it does not have SINGLES on it. I mean, "Mixed Emotions" was a single, "Anybody seen my baby" (it flopped anyway...) was a very comercial song and "Love is strong" was a great song IMO not a single, but a very cool song and video. Now, "Streets of love" it´s just a mediocre ballad with no radio airplay, no video, nothing.....they don´t even play it live(not that i want that, i hate the song...)on this tour.