I hope no one was hurt or killed, and also that no family, band members or staff from the Stones camp were on board either. There were 250 + passengers on board, but some or all got out, don't know for sure yet, some people were seen jumping from the plane. Any word from Toronto based fans?

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-03 01:12 by LISMM63.

Isn't the stage being built in a Pearson hanger?

More info on TV now.

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)

Yeah report just coming thru....Was also wondering if any of Stones on board?

Just saying they believe everyone has escaped the burning aircraft.

ROCKMAN

ya ,,14 minor injuries ,,,seems cool

Yeah, the news said people were seen jumping from the plane. that means some musta got out, but what about the piece of plane that fell off, what about people close to that?

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)

I hope there were no fatalities.

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-03 01:13 by LISMM63.

Steve Shaw, a vice president of the Greater Toronto Airport Authority, said there were 297 passengers and 12 crew aboard the plane. He said the jet overshot the runway by 200 yards and that he believed the fire broke out after the passengers were evacuated.

We can smell the burning aircraft fuel
from the crashed Air France jet at
Pearson Airport at my nearby
apartment, here in Toronto,
as I sit here and type.

The aircraft crashed and burned
during a thunderstorm around 4pm
this afternoon. The survivors made their
way to the nearby highway and were waving down
cars for help. Current news reports suggest
everybody escaped the crash before the
wreckage started to explode. I
understand 50 people are in
hospital including a young
baby in a coma. My heart
goes out to anyone on
the plane or their relatives
back in France.

If you need any more info, and I can help,
please email me, I'll tell you what I know.

Ongoing news coverage here
has been live, with traffic cameras
showing much of the post crash action
on CP 24 t.v., lots of witnesses calling
in on their cell phones. One lady on
the plane phoned her husband from
the side of the highway, and said
the aircraft suddenly dropped from
the sky as it approached the runway,
and overshot it, bouncing and skidding
off into a ravine. There were a lot of
passengers with broken bones, and bashed
up pretty bad, but they all seem to have
gotten off.

One doubts the Stones will be rehearsing
onstage at their hanger, unless of course,
they are already there. If it is
the Air Canada hanger, near Centennial
Park, it was fairly close to the crash site.
The airport is shut down tight for now, and
the air and car traffic pretty badly snarled.

Bigger Bang apparently refers to the big bang
theory and has nothing to do with this or
the London bombings. Therefore it would be
foolish to change the title, except for
publicity purposes.

Everyone survived, 14 injuries, minor..

Thats´s incredible, must be historical good news in such catastrophy a plaincrash is.
"Let´s drink to the hardworking people", of Toronto, especially the rescueteams, I admire them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heroes all over the line.

Anders, Norway

I will drink to that!!

It is a miracle everybody survived...

It's still smoking and burning like
crazy. They are warning residents
with breathing problems to close
their windows and stay indoors.

We went down to the crash site tonight; saw
the cracked up smoldering Air France jet
on it's side in a ditch. Firemen still
trying to hose it down. Smoke belching out.
Everyone onboard certainly had a horseshoe
up their butt to survive that one.

Unbelievable. Whew! Apparantly everyone is alive + well.

A group of survivers were standing on the side of the
nearby busy 401 highway for twenty minutes after escaping
from the crash. The downed jet in the ditch just behind them
on fire. A bus driver saw them standing there, pulled over,
and gave them a ride back to the airport terminal. I suppose
after what they went thru, anything now is a bonus!

Sometimes life is stranger than fiction......

Stones should write a song about this.....

So thankful it wasn't worse, I hope the baby is okay, as well as everyone else.

Great rescue teams, the news said the pilot (?) said everyone has about 90 seconds to flee such a disaster.

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)

Air France #358 Charles de Gaulle (CDG) - Toronto Pearson (YYZ) - Airbus A340. Over-ran run landing in heavy rain/lightning. At this time, from an account of a passenger, lightning struck the aircraft after touching down. Aircraft over-ran end of runway, front end (First Class - THE WAY I *ALWAYS* GO -- TAKE THAT, MATIES!) into ditch, back third of aircraft broke off and fell to ground, resulting in fuel-based fire.

All aboard survived, those w/minor inujuries taken to local hospitals. First Officer walked away from crash scene, hailed a motorist on Highway 401, demanded to be taken to a local hospital, violating International Law by leaving the scene of an accident.

And why are the lives of Stones employees any more important than the lives of those otherwise aboard? I simply do not understand!

"The wonder of Jimi Hendrix was that he could stand up at all he was so pumped full of drugs." Patsy, Patsy Stone

AND A BIG BIG BIG Tip of my hat TO TORONTO EMERGENCY SERVICES FOR BEING AT THE CRASH SITE ****40**** SECONDS AFTER IMPACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GUYS ROCK MY WAIRLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The wonder of Jimi Hendrix was that he could stand up at all he was so pumped full of drugs." Patsy, Patsy Stone

The airport is reopened
so the Stones should be
able to get back to the
stage set up in their
hanger for rehearsals.

Naw, you can't get anywhere close
even at the best of times, I've tried.....;-0

Could still smell the burning jet fuel late into
the night. The survivor's tales, as they are interviewed
on local t.v. are unreal/ surreal. One dude sitting in a bar
with a beer talking about how he walked away from it
in particular. Is like an Episode from the old
Twilight Zone series, by all probabilities he
should be dead, the news full fo grief.

Yeah, sometimes good things still happen.

And I guess Canada is still a pretty safe
place to be. A friend of mine worked on the
recent provincial emergency planning task force.
I suspect we see some of that in play yesterday in the
way the emergency rescue forces were quickly deployed
at the airport, to contain the blaze, redirect
traffic. Shit! It was lieing 100 meters from
the 401, our equivalent of the autobahn.
The potential for an epic disaster
here was mindboggling!

Who said the Stones/crew were more important? No one, some of us expressed concern, because the Stones weren't far away, crew/family could be flying in, the hanger/crew members there etc.

The Menace of Mayfair wrote:
"And why are the lives of Stones employees any more important than the lives of those otherwise aboard? I simply do not understand!"

Thanks Divido and others for the update.

Fantastic that so many were able to walk away. I read a really interesting book about death that described what generally happens to crash victims. The main point was that plane crashes, occuring near take-off or landing, could be much more survivable if jet fuel wasn't so extremely flammable, and if the fuel storage area was more sturdy. Military planes, for instance, use much stronger enclosures for their fuel tanks.

Karl

'Don’t forget, if you’re on your bike, wear white'

When I was on my way to one of the Stones shows in Spain on the last tour we were landing in Madrid airport in heavy thunder and lightning. It was flashing and thundering everywhere on the airport. Then just seconds before the wheels of the plane touched ground the captain aborted the landing and did a very hard raising of the airplane. Later he told us the airport just closed as we were about to land. Then we circled around Madrid until the thunder was gone. You can't land in thunders because the air is not stable so you can get knockeds to the ground. Or the lighning can make trouble. Not so much airborne but close to the runway more trouble.

This could happen anywhere, and as I travel often I am so happy every time they tell the passangers to keep emergency exits and all other paths free so that an evacuation is possible. Still people complain. Why do they have to keep seatbelts on? Why do you have to put on your jacket if you are on an emergency exit? Why can't kids and elderly people sit there? And so on. Most safety rules make senese and in this case they saved a lot of lives.

Bjornulf

First....I'm glad everbody made it....rare.....but just great...reports would have to give full marks to the crew on the evacuation.

Second....as an ex commercial pilot....the pilots F###ed up. I have usually been able to pinpoint the problem from the first days accounts and this one sounds bad. First it sounds like it was the same conditions as BV described with the visibility being at the cutoff point for airport closure. If you are going to proceed with an approach when the limits could change quickly (unstable air, thunder activity) it can go either way. Sounds as if they elected to make a questionalble approach, missed the TDZ, could not determine the remaining runway length because of visibility and overshot. Accidents are rarely one thing gone wrong, in this case pushing a questionable approach, missing the glide path, not aborting when the TDZ was missed, by the time he the wheels where on the pavement his options are bad and slightly worse as to try and get it airborne again or is there enough runway left in that fog. How mang chances do you like your pilot to take? In all fairness it is practical to 'attempt' an approach and back off...it's when to do it.

Hi Mark!

For what it's worth I'm five miles from the crash site.
At the time was sitting on my tenth floor sheltered balcony,
had to come inside coz we were getting hit with a monsoon
like thunderstorm; I got drenched.

Pearson Airport had been on red alert off and on all day.
Apparantly at 4pm or so, two flights, KLM and an Air France
jet decided to take a run at it. Witnesses nearer the airport
who saw them coming in said they thought the KLM pilot must
be crazy, it was quite harrowing, but he got down safely.
The Air France jet, by a few accounts, seemed to be
way to high for an approach.

Pearson officials claim it was up to the pilots to decide
if they wanted to land at that point in time, but apparantly
nobody else tried it.

Course I don't understand all the technicalities here,
but would seem to verify, at least in some small part
what you are saying?

They are rescueing the blackbox now, and of course they got
the crew and passengers alive as witnesses. I suppose this
time we might just find out exactly what happened?

BTW I hear the Stones aren't rehearsing at the anger this
week anyways, unless that changed over the past few days.

The Rolling Stones rehearse at a central Toronto city location. The much talked about rehearsals at Pearson is for building stage, i.e. crew rehearsals.

Bjornulf

Hi KSIE!

I read an interesting psychological profile on
disaster victims. It claimed 70% of those involved
do little or nothing to save themselves, and just basically
engage in muddled thinking. 15% panic, scream and try to
thrash their way to safety any way possible. Only 15%
calmly try to come up with a plan to save their ass,
and hopefully those around them too.

Seems the final 15% pervailed in this case, tho no doubt
a well trained air and ground crew new what to do in
an emergency. It still seems miraculous that they got
everybody out in under 10 minutes!

I'm surprised how often, when I've arrived on a jet,
folks all scramble for the exits, rather than wait
their turn, which is inconsiderate, dangerous, and
absurd, considering the usual tight seating
and aisle space. But everone got off alive
this time!

Hey David (got any new Proper sets?),

Interesting info, and I think you're right, the crew must have made a big difference in this case. Another source of high fatalities in plane crashes is that often the seat brackets come loose and break passenger shins. This obviously makes escape more difficult.


Karl

I ALWAYS take the card with the diagram of the equipment and pay attention during the safety briefing, although I know how to disarm doors, &c. I shows respect for the cabin crew, who are there to save your lives in the event of a disaster (and to serve me drinks -- if they don't then *I* have a disaster!).

Mark, what's 'TDZ' mean? You know, in 1989 a Martinair MD-11 landing in Spain pulled the same stunt as the pilots of AF 358, only when they threw the dice lives were lost. Ooh, easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but I am afraid that what you said about taking chances by the pilots may be true in this case.

If that is so, a multimillion $ Airbus A340 is toast and lawsuits are going to start flying (no pun intended), + the pilots will be working on the Champs d'Elysees, saying, "Bienvenue a McDonalds"...

"The wonder of Jimi Hendrix was that he could stand up at all he was so pumped full of drugs." Patsy, Patsy Stone

Hi Karl!

Yes, the crew deserves kudos, but as Mark
suggests, the pilots may have a lot to
answer for................

Apparantly there are often a lot of injuries
from passengers breaking their ankles and
legs coming down the escape shute. They
tell you to take your shoes off first
but not everybody does!

Air france says everybody was off the plane
in 90 seconds to 1 minute. I find that
hard to believe from a logistics
point of view but if they say so........

BTW yes, I got the Proper Box Doughboys
Western Swing 4 cd boxset, worth it for
"Pusy Pusy Pusy" alone! ;-) and the
Maddox Bros + Rose double, once again
quite excellent/ definitive.

Hi BV!

But wouldn't the Stones want to visit the stage
set up at Pearson to see how preparations are
coming along and perhaps choreograph some of their moves?
I remember watching Jagger checking it out as it was
being set up in a stadium once in a video.

TDZ is Touch Down Zone.

The glide path is a electronicly generated route (vertical) that places you on a path to the TDZ, a zone at the begining of the runway considered the optimum place to put your tires down if you want to stop in time (those heavily painted stripes you want to see just under your butt as you cross the threshhold).

"Witnesses nearer the airport
who saw them coming in said they thought the KLM pilot must
be crazy, it was quite harrowing, but he got down safely.
The Air France jet, by a few accounts, seemed to be
way to high for an approach."

Davido...I know it's just semantics but the biggest points to get out of your comments are " he got down safely".....wrong....folks were correct...he was crazy...this does not make it safe...it means he risked the flight and they were nothing more than lucky. Running off a runway usually means missing that TDZ so again the glide path would have to be too high.....time to back off then.

All the talk about a lightning strike and blackout before landings are misleading at that point. Lightning hit's aircraft daily and rarely creates life threatning conditions. As my previous point said there are usually several contributing factors, let your problems build up, like I'm too high, the last guy just made it, it's not looking good, Oh no the lights went out, Oh they are back on....not realy the time to think about extra problems.

"Pearson officials claim it was up to the pilots to decide
if they wanted to land at that point in time, but apparantly
nobody else tried it."

It is always the final decision of the PIC (pilot in command). The tower only passes on information. Given the advisories mentioned, the fact that the previous aircraft would have reported his difficulties, all others had declined......do you want to fly with this guy?

I hate to be negative and if one person had died I would have backed off out of respect and let Transport Canada define the incident, but this kind of blatant disregard for all that is good about flying ticks me off. So much focas is spent on the incidents and the few heroic victims that survive these things that we do not get to hear for a couple of years the official determination which in most cases is pilot error, the error that killed the others. The Canadian flight that glided to that island is a prime example, saved all these peoples lives, great, two years later it's pilot error that got them into it.

Classic case: worked with a South African airline pilot who worked with a national promoted because of race to fly 747. He was late for a flight to London and ordered the fuel crew to stop fueling so he could get going. All weather reports indicated London would be down for fog for the day...he left anyway. Got to London and he was declined planding because the visibility was "0". He declared an emergency because he did not have the required fuel on board to fly to the alternate, as required. He was declined because the airport can not clear you for disaster. The only saving grace is at the time the 747 was the only aircraft that could actualy land it'self minus retarding the throttles and applying the brakes. His instruments put the plane on the runway and he comes to a complete stop, but can not even see the ground from the cockpit so they stop dead in the middle of the runway. A truck is set out to guide him into the ramp but the truck runs into the nose gear due to the fog. The pilots hear a noise below and decide to drop a service hatch located above the landing gear to check out the noise and the hatch drops on the widsheild of the truck breaking it, the only damage. Now in South Africa the guy was declared a national hero for saving lives...he was banned from Europian airspace though.

Hi Mark!

Yeah we're only apartment balcony lawnchair
observer critics out here by Pearson Airport,
so I appreciate your expert insights.

No doubt the news likes heroes who saved the day,
but as you clearly point out it may be waaaaaay
to actually determine that!!!!

Apparantly the general europhia of unbelievably surviving this
crash is beginning to wear off now, and many of the survivors
are walking around in shock. No doubt there will be lots
of law suits and Transport Canada investigations to sort
this one all out.