This song has been a blind spot in my Dylan collection for years (I have known of its existence but never actually heard a decent copy of it) -- anyway, INFIDELS outtake w/Mick Taylor, "Julius And Ethel":

Julius & Ethel is a good rocker; but just like "Man Of Peace" - I think the song repeats itself way too much; and doesn't go anywhere.

>I think the song repeats itself way too much; and doesn't go anywhere.


Not unlike "Like A Rolling Stone", no? or (insert many 60s Dylan song titles here)?

I like that " Infidels " album very much.

Backed with Sly & Robbie & MT & Knopfler it got some fantastic tunes.

I&I ,Jokerman or Neighborhood Bully I could listen to every day.

Of course I don´t but it´s a brilliant album just before his
Bobness went somewhere I didn´t follow ( for some time ).

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Glam Descendant
>I think the song repeats itself way too much; and doesn't go anywhere.


Not unlike "Like A Rolling Stone", no? or (insert many 60s Dylan song titles here)?

Strongly disagree with you. A boogie riff on 2 chords, as Julius & Ethel, gets tiresome after 4 minutes. Don't see any reason to compare it with other Dylan songs - and especially not Like A Rolling Stone. Where do you see any similarity in them?
"Julius & Ethel" is like a "part of a song", played over and over again - it's obviously not finished or release-worthy, I'd say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-03 10:44 by Erik_Snow.

Well I guess it depends upon whether you're referring to lyrics or music ... musically, I find most of BD's songs written in a repetitive/circular fashion (not a desultory observation I should add); even in his lengthiest songs (e.g., "Sad-Eyed Lady Of The Lowlands", "Highlands", "Black Diamond Bay") one will find very little variance in the melody line; Hell, he frequently even doesn't bother to include a bridge lol.

So... I guess you're referring to some lyrical quality? not a challenge, I might add : )

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Glam Descendant
So... I guess you're referring to some lyrical quality? not a challenge, I might add

Both lyrical and musical. If you took a song like "Bob Dylans 115th Dream", which also has 2 chords only....and then made every 2nd sentence end with the words "Bob DYlans 115th Dream; Bob Dylans 115th Dream"....then it would be an annoying listen after a while. But as that song (115th Dream) actually is.....it has a plot; and it moves forward....the chords isn't that important.
But it also has something to do with the music....a repetetive line like "Julius & Ethel....Julius & Ethel" makes me restless; musically as well - it reminds me of a childrens song or something.
But...I'm in no position of telling Dylan how to write songs; LOL - but I can see why he left J&E on the selves....otherwise it would have to be reworked completely. I think Taylor sounds a bit bored as well....it's no "Jiving Sister Fanny" - he found out.

Duly noted but you do know what the song's about right? I think when Dylan was writing directly/non-elliptically about a specific social injustice (e.g., "Hurricane", "The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll") the musical counterpoint had to necessarily take a back-seat to the rhythmic urgency to more effectively convey the message...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-03 11:20 by Glam Descendant.

Yes I know what it's about, Glam Descendant. I still find it somewhat repetetive. But after writing all this, I almost feel guilty - in fact I'm gonna play it right now; it's not like I can't stand it - it's pretty good in some ways

Its just so sad that Mick Taylor wasted his time on Dylan. I'll never know this phase of his playing, because I just can't take Dylan.

When musicians play that type of song, 2 chords and very repetitive,the players get in a groove that a passive listener may not be able to get to. That being said, an artist has to be aware of its audience and if the majority of the audience is bored, it means that the song is not effective.But Dylan has made a career out of not been to concern about what his audience wants!
I like that song,although, yeah, it's quite repetitive.
Rock and Roll

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GNAT
Its just so sad that Mick Taylor wasted his time on Dylan. I'll never know this phase of his playing, because I just can't take Dylan.

your loss, not taylor's.

Sounds more like Travelin' Man to me and I think the guitar playing on that song smokes. Taylor can find variations in the simpliest of riffs.

As I heard Taylor tell the story, he was playing at the Roxy in early '82 during the Bluesbreakers Reunion tour (GREAT Taylor playing during THAT tour) when Dylan came backstage and asked him if he wanted to work together. That led to the studio work in '83 on Infidels with a leftover track on Empire Burlesque. The studio work led to Taylor playing on the '84 Dylan European Tour and the "Real Live" release. From a Dylan perspective that '84 tour is not a popular one. But from a Taylor perspective it is a treasure trove of RnR and ballad playing with some wonderful, wonderful solos.

Taylor is very proud of working with Dylan and considers it a highlight of his career.

If Bob Dylan had died after the release of Blonde On Blonde his place in musical history would still have been assured. From '62 to '66 his music changed the musical landscape forever. Taylor is justifiably proud to have worked with him.

i agree with the dylan '84 tour assessment. also agree with the '62 to '66 comment, but would add that if he had only done his last 3 albums, a place in music history would be secured as well...

[en.wikipedia.org]

julius and ethel rosenberg and their story....

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GNAT
Its just so sad that Mick Taylor wasted his time on Dylan. I'll never know this phase of his playing, because I just can't take Dylan.

yeah, he wasted a good year when he could have been rewriting history with Alvin Lee or Jack Bruce

My god, Dylan with Taylor was fantastic. They both challenged each other, and both came out with some incredible things. Taylor really added a new dimension to Dylan's standards during that tour. I love his playing on Maggie's Farm, and I and I. Fantastic!

License to Kill
( with the named above )

Nice comments Erik Snow.

Dylan has written more than one masterpiece but "Julius and Ethel" is essentially a fragment as opposed to a truly complete statement/song. Maybe he'll finish it one day.

Glam, you gotta listen to "Like Rolling Stone" again. If that song doesn't go someplace then no song does.

I believe that one of Bob's major strengths is his near lifelong motivation and affinity for words. Mick Taylor posesses a huge talent but his motivation and confidence are lacking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-04 08:49 by stonesrule.

Here is another Taylor/Dylan collobaration... Warning: VERY 80's...





- Doxa