Buy/Sell/Trade :  Talk
This is the place where Stones fans can advertise anything for sale, wanted, trade or whatever, from fan to fan. Advertisements are for free.
To see the old ads go here

Previous page Next page First page IORR home

For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.

What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 12, 2021 05:50

What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"

There is no indication of true stereo or electronically reprocessed stereo?

Do you know if Out of Our Heads SKL 4733 is true stereo? I cannot find where it says electronically reprocessed stereo.

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: gonzalo76 ()
Date: October 12, 2021 07:31

A question about stereo / mono [iorr.org]

Posted by: rootsman ()
Date: February 8, 2016 09:36
Only released in the terrible sounding "electronically reprocessed stereo".

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: October 12, 2021 10:50

Quote
exilestones

What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"

Decca Records:

ffrr = full frequency range recording - Wikipedia.

ffss = full frequency stereophonic sound - Wikipedia.

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: October 13, 2021 15:12

Quote
exilestones
What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"

There is no indication of true stereo or electronically reprocessed stereo?

Do you know if Out of Our Heads SKL 4733 is true stereo? I cannot find where it says electronically reprocessed stereo.

All tracks on UK - Out Of Our Heads, Decca SKL 4733 are in
Electronically Re Processed Stereo ! -
None of them are True Stereo.

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 14, 2021 13:48

To gonzalo76, Irix, & Henrik, Thank you.

++++

Hendrik,

Is there a way to identify Rolling Stones' true stereo, fake stereo, mono or mixed mono, and stereo albums? Are there markings on the albums or their covers indicating which albums are true stereo or fake stereo?

Is there a list of Rolling Stones' true stereo, fake stereo, mono or mixed mono, and stereo albums or singles?

Do you happen to know if Out of Our Heads they ever released in true stereo or which releases are fake stereo?

Can you give us the answer to exactly which US version of Out of Our Heads has the long uncensored "The Under Assistant West Coast Promo Man" with the different mix?

You know Abkco re-released the 1965 US long uncensored "The Under Assistant West Coast Promo Man" on "Stray Cats" (mono box 2016). The sound is not good. They must have copied the recording from a record and didn't do a great job on it. I think the only way to get a great-sounding recording of long uncensored "The Under Assistant West Coast Promo Man" with the different mix, is to transfer it ourselves.

Are you coming to Atlanta to see the Rolling Stones?

I hope you don't mind all of the questions.


++++

I believe SKL.4733, both releases are fake stereo?


Out of Our Heads - Decca SKL.4733 - 1965








+++++++

Out of Our Heads Decca – SKL.4733 Reissue






Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: October 14, 2021 17:06

Oh, - these questions are very interesting, - but not all easily answered.
So if it’s OK let’s do it step by step.

The UK-Out Of Our Heads does not exist in True Stereo, - as the material
wasn’t recorded in Stereo !
If the song wasn’t originally Stereo recorded, - there is no way it can
ever be released in True Stereo.

Aftermath was the first album where all tracks were recorded and released
in True Stereo.

So when it comes to ERPS/Fake-Stereo we are talking about the
Pre-Aftermath material, - with some few later obscure examples.

The “Great List” you are looking for, does not exist yet, (I think) -
but I am working very hard on it ! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
I’ll be back !

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 15, 2021 23:41

I haven’t found any quality downloads of any of the Teldec albums. It would be nice to have those albums digitally in great sound.

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 16, 2021 03:23

Quote
Irix
Quote
exilestones

What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"

Decca Records:

ffrr = full frequency range recording - Wikipedia.

ffss = full frequency stereophonic sound - Wikipedia.

Thank you

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 16, 2021 03:28

From 2011 [iorr.org]

Is this pre-Aftermath era True Stereo Rolling Stones still correct (after 10 years)?

Quote
midnrambler
These are the officially existing true stereo tracks from the pre-Aftermath era:

Around and Around
Empty Heart
If You Need Me
2120 South Michigan Avenue
It's All Over Now
Time Is On My Side
Heart Of Stone
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love
What A Shame
Play With Fire
I've Been Loving You Too Long
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Get Off Of My Cloud
Confessin' The Blues
Down The Road Apiece
Look What You've Done
I Can't Be Satisfied

Also the Chess Studio outtakes are available in true stereo:

Stewed And Keefed
Down In The Bottom
High Heeled Sneakers
Tell Me Baby
Lookin Tired (RCA Studios 1966)

Quote
rootsman
Also available in stereo:

My Girl (at least the basic track is pre-Aftermath)

Quote
rootsman
Also available in stereo:

My Girl (at least the basic track is pre-Aftermath)

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: October 17, 2021 18:07

Quote
exilestones
From 2011 [iorr.org]

Is this pre-Aftermath era True Stereo Rolling Stones still correct (after 10 years)?

Quote
midnrambler
These are the officially existing true stereo tracks from the pre-Aftermath era:

Around and Around
Empty Heart
If You Need Me
2120 South Michigan Avenue
It's All Over Now
Time Is On My Side
Heart Of Stone
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love
What A Shame
Play With Fire
I've Been Loving You Too Long
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Get Off Of My Cloud
Confessin' The Blues
Down The Road Apiece
Look What You've Done
I Can't Be Satisfied

Also the Chess Studio outtakes are available in true stereo:

Stewed And Keefed
Down In The Bottom
High Heeled Sneakers
Tell Me Baby
Lookin Tired (RCA Studios 1966)

Quote
rootsman
Also available in stereo:

My Girl (at least the basic track is pre-Aftermath)

Quote
rootsman
Also available in stereo:

My Girl (at least the basic track is pre-Aftermath)

I think the “True Stereo List” is still pretty precise !
- but of the 5 mentioned Chess outtakes, - only 1 of the songs
have had an official release.
“Tell Me Baby (How Many Times)” was released by
(intentional?) mistake on “The Rest Of The Best” - German
box set, - in 1983, - but in Mono !

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 18, 2021 03:05

Quote
HenrikBB
Quote
exilestones
From 2011 [iorr.org]

Is this pre-Aftermath era True Stereo Rolling Stones still correct (after 10 years)?

Quote
midnrambler
These are the officially existing true stereo tracks from the pre-Aftermath era:

Around and Around
Empty Heart
If You Need Me
2120 South Michigan Avenue
It's All Over Now
Time Is On My Side
Heart Of Stone
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love
What A Shame
Play With Fire
I've Been Loving You Too Long
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Get Off Of My Cloud
Confessin' The Blues
Down The Road Apiece
Look What You've Done
I Can't Be Satisfied

Also the Chess Studio outtakes are available in true stereo:

Stewed And Keefed
Down In The Bottom
High Heeled Sneakers
Tell Me Baby
Lookin Tired (RCA Studios 1966)

Quote
rootsman
Also available in stereo:

My Girl (at least the basic track is pre-Aftermath)

Quote
rootsman
Also available in stereo:

My Girl (at least the basic track is pre-Aftermath)

I think the “True Stereo List” is still pretty precise !
- but of the 5 mentioned Chess outtakes, - only 1 of the songs
have had an official release.
“Tell Me Baby (How Many Times)” was released by
(intentional?) mistake on “The Rest Of The Best” - German
box set, - in 1983, - but in Mono !

Thank you

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: October 18, 2021 18:17

To give an impression of why it is not that simple just to make “a list”
of “The Rolling Stones in Electronically Re Processed Stereo” - here is
a list of their first album, - Selftitled - No. 1 - The Rolling Stones -
or whatever we call it.

Their First album was never ERPS-released in the UK.

It was released in ERPS in :
1968 - Japan, - with 3 later rereleases (that seems identical in ERPS)
1968 - Holland (with relelease 1982) - (+ maybe Belgium ?)
1968/9? - Australia
1968/9? - New Zealand
1973 - France (Part of the L’âge D’or serie, called “Carol”)
1978 - Mexico
197?/198? - Brazil
- Those releases are different in the ERPS-production ! - and sounding
very different, - from the best and acceptable - to the absolute worst ! (Brazil)

To make the collectors life a complete nightmare, numerous re-releases have been
made marked STEREO - ESTEREO - FULL FREQUENCY STEREOPHONIC SOUND -
this goes for Germany, Brazil, Belgium, Scandinavia (UK-vinyl/Norway-cover),
and Portugal, -
all playing glorious MONO ! ! !

After THIS listing work is done, - you will have to deal with all the tracks from
the First Album that exists on the dozens and dozens of later compilations
released in ERPS.

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: October 18, 2021 22:36

Quote
HenrikBB
To give an impression of why it is not that simple just to make “a list”
of “The Rolling Stones in Electronically Re Processed Stereo” - here is
a list of their first album, - Selftitled - No. 1 - The Rolling Stones -
or whatever we call it.

Their First album was never ERPS-released in the UK.

It was released in ERPS in :
1968 - Japan, - with 3 later rereleases (that seems identical in ERPS)
1968 - Holland (with relelease 1982) - (+ maybe Belgium ?)
1968/9? - Australia
1968/9? - New Zealand
1973 - France (Part of the L’âge D’or serie, called “Carol”)
1978 - Mexico
197?/198? - Brazil
- Those releases are different in the ERPS-production ! - and sounding
very different, - from the best and acceptable - to the absolute worst ! (Brazil)

To make the collectors life a complete nightmare, numerous re-releases have been
made marked STEREO - ESTEREO - FULL FREQUENCY STEREOPHONIC SOUND -
this goes for Germany, Brazil, Belgium, Scandinavia (UK-vinyl/Norway-cover),
and Portugal, -
all playing glorious MONO ! ! !

After THIS listing work is done, - you will have to deal with all the tracks from
the First Album that exists on the dozens and dozens of later compilations
released in ERPS.
Thank you, Henrik for explanation. I always knew that ERPS is evil and vinyl are absolute evil winking smiley

Although, life of CD collectors is just a bit better, especially, if one tries to dig all editions from different part of the world. And here I have to tip to new rollingandre web site (nervous people should avoid this one)
[rollingandre.jouwweb.nl]

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: Ricky ()
Date: October 19, 2021 00:37

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
HenrikBB
To give an impression of why it is not that simple just to make “a list”
of “The Rolling Stones in Electronically Re Processed Stereo” - here is
a list of their first album, - Selftitled - No. 1 - The Rolling Stones -
or whatever we call it.

Their First album was never ERPS-released in the UK.

It was released in ERPS in :
1968 - Japan, - with 3 later rereleases (that seems identical in ERPS)
1968 - Holland (with relelease 1982) - (+ maybe Belgium ?)
1968/9? - Australia
1968/9? - New Zealand
1973 - France (Part of the L’âge D’or serie, called “Carol”)
1978 - Mexico
197?/198? - Brazil
- Those releases are different in the ERPS-production ! - and sounding
very different, - from the best and acceptable - to the absolute worst ! (Brazil)

To make the collectors life a complete nightmare, numerous re-releases have been
made marked STEREO - ESTEREO - FULL FREQUENCY STEREOPHONIC SOUND -
this goes for Germany, Brazil, Belgium, Scandinavia (UK-vinyl/Norway-cover),
and Portugal, -
all playing glorious MONO ! ! !

After THIS listing work is done, - you will have to deal with all the tracks from
the First Album that exists on the dozens and dozens of later compilations
released in ERPS.
Thank you, Henrik for explanation. I always knew that ERPS is evil and vinyl are absolute evil winking smiley

Although, life of CD collectors is just a bit better, especially, if one tries to dig all editions from different part of the world. And here I have to tip to new rollingandre web site (nervous people should avoid this one)
[rollingandre.jouwweb.nl]

Many thanks for the link !!!

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: October 19, 2021 15:37

“I always knew that ERPS is evil and vinyl are absolute evil winking smiley

I absolutely agree ! Evil - Evil - Evil ! - “Paint It Black, - You Devil !”
BUT :
It is out there ! - and therefore collectible, - and actually VERY interesting
when you dig into it ! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 20, 2021 02:52

I wish I could download some fake stereo. Anyone care to post some?

Can someone upload Milestones?

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: October 21, 2021 13:33

Quote
exilestones
I wish I could download some fake stereo. Anyone care to post some?

Can someone upload Milestones?

. . . Maybe you should simply get the records . . ? drinking smiley

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 23, 2021 02:56

I just got an old Hot Rocks CD and Old Flowers CD for the fake stereo tracks. I downloaded a Milestones but it sounded like shit.

I'd love to have great digital transfers of everything Stones. Especially these Teldec albums (MileStones, etc...) I can't take a turntable to the beach or play it in my car.

Sorry, I know you're a quality, high-fidelity vinyl guy!

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: October 25, 2021 10:52

Quote
exilestones
I just got an old Hot Rocks CD and Old Flowers CD for the fake stereo tracks. I downloaded a Milestones but it sounded like shit.

I'd love to have great digital transfers of everything Stones. Especially these Teldec albums (MileStones, etc...) I can't take a turntable to the beach or play it in my car.

Sorry, I know you're a quality, high-fidelity vinyl guy!

Actually I am not really a “High-Fidelity Guy” . . .
I have never seen The Stones as a High-Fidelity band, - they are too rough and unpolished ! They are nice to be played loud, - but in fact they don’t require much from the equipment . . . at least in my opinion . . .

I use a rather small laboratory set-up, - at least when checking ERPS’s -
that allows me to compare different versions and productions.

I am not sure of why you are looking for Teldec-releases . . ?
Several Teldec released albums might be marked “Stereo” - but they
play MONO, - and I have never understood this mislabeling . . .

If you want to go “Classic ERPS”, - why not start with the original UK’s. ?
Then you could continue to the first 3 Dutch albums, - No.1, Greatest Hits-
and /3 (UK-No.2), - they were all ERPS-released in 1968.
In general, - avoid the US-releases ! Many of them sounds Horrible Bad ! -
and I think they are the main reason for the bad reputation of ERPS . .
I mean, - I have never really heard of someone complaining about the
ERPS’s on Metamorphosis, - simply because they are so well produced, that
you hardly can tell it is ERPS.

Later, - in my project process, I will upload some of the ERPS-specialities I have found, - weird stuff, - like “2000 Light Years From Home” and
“Jumpin Jack Flash” in ERPS.

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: ds1984 ()
Date: November 3, 2021 22:21

Quote
HenrikBB

The UK-Out Of Our Heads does not exist in True Stereo, - as the material
wasn’t recorded in Stereo !
If the song wasn’t originally Stereo recorded, - there is no way it can
ever be released in True Stereo.

Excuse but I may think there is a confusion between recording and mixing.

A mono recording is a "only one track recording" and already at the time of the Rolling Stones, at least "two tracks" machines were widely used in studios.

So once you get the "multi-track" finished, then there is the mixing step
In the UK, it was common to produce a mono master mix in the first half of the 60's because with 2 and 4 tracks tape, stereo mixing was not adapted. Especially if reduction were made. When eight tracks machine became available the stero mixing was way easier.

BUT as long as the original "multi-track" is usable a true stereo mix can be released.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-03 22:26 by ds1984.

Re: What's the difference between "ffrr" and "ffss?"
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: November 10, 2021 23:28

Quote
ds1984
Quote
HenrikBB

The UK-Out Of Our Heads does not exist in True Stereo, - as the material
wasn’t recorded in Stereo !
If the song wasn’t originally Stereo recorded, - there is no way it can
ever be released in True Stereo.

Excuse but I may think there is a confusion between recording and mixing.

A mono recording is a "only one track recording" and already at the time of the Rolling Stones, at least "two tracks" machines were widely used in studios.

So once you get the "multi-track" finished, then there is the mixing step
In the UK, it was common to produce a mono master mix in the first half of the 60's because with 2 and 4 tracks tape, stereo mixing was not adapted. Especially if reduction were made. When eight tracks machine became available the stero mixing was way easier.

BUT as long as the original "multi-track" is usable a true stereo mix can be released.

Of course you are right about that there is a great difference between recording and mixing ! -
The early Regent Studio recordings might very well have been made on
2 or 4 tracks equipment, - but as it was exactly the same signal that
was recorded on the 2 (or 4) tracks, - these are de facto Mono recordings, -
and can never later be mixed to a True Stereo release.



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Online Users

Guests: 480
Record Number of Users: 189 on August 24, 2021 20:10
Record Number of Guests: 6295 on November 30, 2021 14:09

Previous page Next page First page IORR home