Quote
ironbelly
So called 'old US ABKCO' CDs are full of out-of-phase mono tracks. I do not know if they make it on intent or that was just mastering/manufacturing error. Anyway, for many of those tracks channels do not cancel out if one will make subtraction. There will be a residual signal (in many cases quite big one). Thus, you can call all those tracks either 'poorly balanced mono' or 'out-of-phase mono' or 'fake stereo'.

As an example - Got Live If You Want It! It supposed to be in mono. But this is not 100% pure digital mono (at some places it is clearly electronically reproduced stereo) and the mix does not correspond to the original LP mono mix. To make things more funny, this old ABKCO mix was reproduced almost identically for 2002 remaster.

Electronically Reproduced Stereo on other CDs (these are easily to get) and very obvious

Flowers [ABKCO 75092]

02-Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing in the Shadow?
09-Mother's Little Helper



Through The Past Darkly US version [ABKCO 80032]


05-Mother's Little Helper
10-Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadow?



Hot Rocks [ABKCO 66672]

07-Mother's Little Helper


More Hot Rocks [ABKCO 62672]



10-Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In the Shadow?



Little Red Rooster and Good Times, Bad Times on old ABKCO CDs are as good mono as you can get. The residual signal after channel subtraction is on the level ~ -45dB.

I think Little Red Rooster on Grrr! sounds great too!

Do you know of any more fake stereo on Old Abkco? I can't believe I'm buying these Old Abkco for fake stereo.

Another great hunt would be to gather every version of Hot Rocks to find out which version of which song is on each. Paint It Black (long, short, stereo or mono?), Heart of Stone (stereo intro then mono? WTF?) explain that one?

Hot Rocks is always a treasure chest and we never know exactly what is in it.

Quote
exilestones

I think Little Red Rooster on Grrr! sounds great too!

That is different mastering from different period and it is pure digital mono.

Quote
exilestones
Do you know of any more fake stereo on Old Abkco? I can't believe I'm buying these Old Abkco for fake stereo.

Apart of those two songs and complete 'Got Live' there are no obvious cases. The rest are 'poorly balanced' (and poorly mastered, per se) mono. I do not own those discs apart of Got Live, Flowers, More Hot Rocks and old Singles Collection. There is no need to purchase any of those old ABKCO, unless they have something unique. Poorly balanced mono and bad mastering is not something that I consider as 'unique'.

Quote
exilestones
Another great hunt would be to gather every version of Hot Rocks to find out which version of which song is on each. Paint It Black (long, short, stereo or mono?), Heart of Stone (stereo intro then mono? WTF?) explain that one?
Hot Rocks is always a treasure chest and we never know exactly what is in it.

We discussed Paint It Black a year or so ago. At the moment there is nothing to add to that discussion.

Hot Rocks case is a kind of easy one.
1. MFSL based mastering
a) West German discs from glass masters 01 and 02. PIB in stereo, short version. Apparently, initial A/D transfer.
b) West German discs from glass masters 03 and 04. The same A/D transfer but re-worked in 1988 (Do not ask me why, nobodys know the reason). PIB in stereo, short version with appr. 1 sec premature fade out.
c) Japanese P33L-25011, P25L-25047, POCD-1927. All are digital clones, all a based on initial A/D transfer, like case a). But final equalizing (low and high frequencies were rolled out) and peak values are different. A typical example of Japanese post-production mastering. PIB in stereo, short version, equivalent to case a).

2. ABKCO masterings
a) 1986 version, made by A.L. Oldham. On West Germany for USA discs [ABKCO 66672]. These are 'solid silver' Hanover-made CDs with matrices numbers CD1 606-1/1 2896 511 01, CD2 607-1/2 2896 512 01. PIB is poorly balanced and out of phase mono, long version. This version is approaching to the definition of 'fake stereo' and (IMHO) is the worst sounding one.
b) 1990 version, first appeared on UK 2CD Hot Rocks 1964-1971 [London 820 140-2] and afterwards was used on all pre-2002 editions of Hot Rocks all around the world (including post-1990 re-issues of US [ABKCO 66672]). PIB in mono, long version. Again poorly balanced mono, but a bit better than the previous case.

3. 2002 SACD remaster
This one was used for all post-2002 editions of Hot Rocks no matter country of origin and media (regular CD or SHM-CD). PIB in stereo, short version, re-master. Luke and Dave wrote '"Paint It, Black" is also in some ways better than the
London version, as its EQ more closely matches the EQ of the original, stereo vinyl version (the London version, by contrast, was somewhat murky and indistinct). It has its silent-channel "blacked out" during the intro, but that isn't too terribly distracting.'

The case with stereo intro/mono body Heart Of Stone is hazy. There is no pleasurable explanation for that deviation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-16 14:10 by ironbelly.

Quote exilestones
Another great hunt would be to gather every version of Hot Rocks to find out which version of which song is on each. Paint It Black (long, short, stereo or mono?), Heart of Stone (stereo intro then mono? WTF?) explain that one?
Hot Rocks is always a treasure chest and we never know exactly what is in it.

Quote Ironbelly
We discussed Paint It Black a year or so ago. At the moment there is nothing to add to that discussion.

I'll have to find that tread about Paint It Black. You gave a lot of great information. I never did make a list of all the
different releases of Paint It Black. I'm not talking about the different covers and catalog numbers, I'm talking about
the music; long version, short version, stereo, mono, mixes, etc... We're a few steps closer now. Thank you for your help!