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barbabang
Everytime I Break Her Heart sound very much like an Undercover session outtake to me.

Why would Mick want to redo "Far Away Eyes" 5 years later?
But ETIBHH does sound like "In Your Hand" (same heavy flanger effect) hence your suggestion it's from 82.

RE 1997 :
Herr Zentgraf has updated his page about this year.
[nzentgraf.de]

See for yourself... I don't wanna spoil his revelations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-06 22:02 by dcba.

The long thread in Tell Me has a lot of ideas about sources/dates:
[iorr.org]

some ideas

don't lie to me
could this be long view farm 81 it just sounds right to me

20 nil
could this be from the sex drive sessions in 91 does anyone hear wyman here

ivy league
could the vocals be from b2b seems like there can't that much quality stuff from the voodoo sessions left after 10 disc of outtakes

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dcba

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barbabang
Everytime I Break Her Heart sound very much like an Undercover session outtake to me.

Why would Mick want to redo "Far Away Eyes" 5 years later?
But ETIBHH does sound like "In Your Hand" (same heavy flanger effect) hence your suggestion it's from 82.

Nico has it in 1977 as early Far Away Eyes.

But sonically it sounds 82.

Si Nico has allocated all the unknown songs to the B2B sessions, works for me. No wonder they thought of releasing that "Tattoo You II" album between 1999 and 2001, there was a lot of good stuff and there should be more to come based on the known tracks that have yet to surface.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
If Nico has allocated all the unknown songs to the B2B sessions, works for me.

That would match the claim that nothing here is post-2002.
Imho there's a possible way to tell 93 outtakes from ones made in 97. In 93 the drum sound was organic/natural and very wide. In 97 it was much more processed.

Nico gives a 1979 date for "Trouble's a Coming" (and we can forget the former "Break Away" title).
Same for "Dog Shit" from 83 which becomes "Big Truff".

01- Nobody's Perfect
Nobody's Perfect
19850716-0817 RPM Studios, NYC

in my ears this is absolutely no DW outtake. Jagger´s singing is so much solo stuff sounding, also musical arrangements are much more 1985/1987 solo sessions. Nothing compareable to the rather rough sounding DW outtakes.
Nevertheless not a bad tune

About "Don't Lie To Me" :
It's probably not from 72 (Burbank pre-tour rehearsals or Dallas 1972-06-23 session). I strongly doubt it's from the 1987-10-20 Country Club "gig" with Jeff Back (Beck couldn't play that restrained, ever!).

A possibility is the early 85 DW sessions : Nico mentions this tune was played/rehearsed that year. My bet is it's from a loose/informal session to get the back band in motion after 2 years of inactivity where traditionnally they play covers to "oil" the band machinery.
Another thing : the piano playing is extremely generic/uninventive here, which points us directly toward... CHUCK!
1985 then?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-07 00:59 by dcba.

Quote
dcba
About "Don't Lie To Me" :
It's probably not from 72 (Burbank pre-tour rehearsals or Dallas 1972-06-23 session). I strongly doubt it's from the 1987-10-20 Country Club "gig" with Jeff Back (Beck couldn't play that restrained, ever!).

A possibility is the early 85 DW sessions : Nico mentions this tune was played/rehearsed that year. My bet is it's from a loose/informal session to get the back band in motion after 2 years of inactivity where traditionnally they play covers to "oil" the band machinery.
Another thing : the piano playing is extremely generic/uninventive here, which points us directly toward... CHUCK!
1985 then?

1985 is also my favourite. NZ seems to do a lot of updates in the moment. We can find new entries daily, fitting to this CD collection. DLTM in 1985 is new.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-07 10:01 by BlueTurns2Grey.

And Nico dates "Walk With Me Wendy" as coming from 1970.
It's really interesting then bacause, to me, this song really sounds like the Stooges studio sessions circa 1973-74, that is with James Williamson on guitar.

The Stones really were pioneers and inventors!

Yeah it sounds like "Travellin' Man" and "I'm going down" so absent studio logs it's probably going to stay the best guess. Need to try to decipher the lyrics, can't say I heard "Walk with me Wendy" very distinctly yet. Maybe it's "Old Glory" or "Toss The Coin" ? ;-)

Makes sense that "Don't Lie to Me" would come from the same sessions as "Putty In Your Hand".

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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dcba
About "Don't Lie To Me" :
...A possibility is the early 85 DW sessions : Nico mentions this tune was played/rehearsed that year. My bet is it's from a loose/informal session to get the back band in motion after 2 years of inactivity where traditionnally they play covers to "oil" the band machinery.
Another thing : the piano playing is extremely generic/uninventive here, which points us directly toward... CHUCK!
1985 then?

I agreed with it. Listen to Putty In You Hands and Don't Lie to Me in a row and it's quite the same sounding and voice.

HMN

The bunch of 1985 tracks give us a very interesting picture of what the DW sessions were like :

- "Don't You Lie To Me" : Jan.85? A band that sounds very weak and rusted and in need to re-start the engine hence the cover track. Unlike 82 where they were fresh from a tour and still sharp in Jan.85 they were rusted and it shows here.

- "Putty in your Hands" : Feb.85? Another cover but this time the band sounds much more assured. I think PIYH stems from the same period that gave us "Loving You".

- " I Can't See No One Else aka I Can't See Nobody III". April/June'85. Original material now and a bit of the song that'll end on "One Hit".

- "Deep Love II". NYC July/Aug'85. Obviously they listened to the Paris sessions and Mick has decided to rework this Keef song.

- "Nobody's Perfect" NYC July/Aug'85. Looks like Mick tries here to write a 100% commercial, blatantly radio-friendly song. Was he looking for an exit = a solo career? It's hard to think that this track with its slick production could be on the raw-sounding DW.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-07 16:04 by dcba.

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Honestman

Quote
dcba
About "Don't Lie To Me" :
...A possibility is the early 85 DW sessions : Nico mentions this tune was played/rehearsed that year. My bet is it's from a loose/informal session to get the back band in motion after 2 years of inactivity where traditionnally they play covers to "oil" the band machinery.
Another thing : the piano playing is extremely generic/uninventive here, which points us directly toward... CHUCK!
1985 then?

I agreed with it. Listen to Putty In You Hands and Don't Lie to Me in a row and it's quite the same sounding and voice.

Don't Lie To Me sounds exactly the same as Fancy Man Blues from 1989 -the Music Man Silhouette guitar Keith used for just about all tracks.

Mathijs

Quote
Dorn
01- Nobody's Perfect
Nobody's Perfect
19850716-0817 RPM Studios, NYC

in my ears this is absolutely no DW outtake. Jagger´s singing is so much solo stuff sounding, also musical arrangements are much more 1985/1987 solo sessions. Nothing compareable to the rather rough sounding DW outtakes.
Nevertheless not a bad tune

Imo it comes from Primitive Cool sessions

Quote
KRiffhard

Quote
Dorn
01- Nobody's Perfect
Nobody's Perfect
19850716-0817 RPM Studios, NYC

in my ears this is absolutely no DW outtake. Jagger´s singing is so much solo stuff sounding, also musical arrangements are much more 1985/1987 solo sessions. Nothing compareable to the rather rough sounding DW outtakes.
Nevertheless not a bad tune

Imo it comes from Primitive Cool sessions

You might be right, but the only hint I found comes from Nico's 1985 Website: [www.nzentgraf.de]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-08 15:53 by BlueTurns2Grey.

This (the outtakes) sounds all very odd

Like Mick singing over old recordings ?

The Mix is very mediocre also - lots of bass and "modern" -

Rest sounds like Jagger solo in the 80ies ...

Foxes in the boxes sounds like the Stones - this one not at least for me.....

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KRiffhard

Quote
Dorn
01- Nobody's Perfect
Nobody's Perfect
19850716-0817 RPM Studios, NYC

in my ears this is absolutely no DW outtake. Jagger´s singing is so much solo stuff sounding, also musical arrangements are much more 1985/1987 solo sessions. Nothing compareable to the rather rough sounding DW outtakes.
Nevertheless not a bad tune

Imo it comes from Primitive Cool sessions

As much as I respect Nico it does sound like a solo track with its horrible FM production and its slick charts-friendly sound.
But otoh there are no tracks on this triple set from solo ventures.

Wyman also lists it as being recorded during the DW sessions in his second book and he would know for sure, so that's a fact. Now maybe it was reworked later for PC but that's pure conjecture.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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Mathijs

Quote
Honestman

Quote
dcba
About "Don't Lie To Me" :
...A possibility is the early 85 DW sessions : Nico mentions this tune was played/rehearsed that year. My bet is it's from a loose/informal session to get the back band in motion after 2 years of inactivity where traditionnally they play covers to "oil" the band machinery.
Another thing : the piano playing is extremely generic/uninventive here, which points us directly toward... CHUCK!
1985 then?

I agreed with it. Listen to Putty In You Hands and Don't Lie to Me in a row and it's quite the same sounding and voice.

Don't Lie To Me sounds exactly the same as Fancy Man Blues from 1989 -the Music Man Silhouette guitar Keith used for just about all tracks.

Mathijs

You're probably right but I stick to 1985 just because the Stones were trying numerous covers of well known tracks at that time.

- These Arms of Mine
- Putty In Your Hands
- Needle in a Haystack
- All Shook Up
- Don't Be Cruel
- Thirty Nine And Holding
- Teddy Bear
- Betty Jean
- Careless Love
- Claudette
- The Dock Of The Bay
- Dust My Blues
- Good To Me
- Hello Mary Lou and so on see Nico's site for the complete list.

By the way, just a guess too.

HMN

[www.thesun.ie]

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dcba

Quote
KRiffhard

Quote
Dorn
01- Nobody's Perfect
Nobody's Perfect
19850716-0817 RPM Studios, NYC

in my ears this is absolutely no DW outtake. Jagger´s singing is so much solo stuff sounding, also musical arrangements are much more 1985/1987 solo sessions. Nothing compareable to the rather rough sounding DW outtakes.
Nevertheless not a bad tune

Imo it comes from Primitive Cool sessions

As much as I respect Nico it does sound like a solo track with its horrible FM production and its slick charts-friendly sound.
But otoh there are no tracks on this triple set from solo ventures.

.
my first thought was that MJ brought this version as a leftover from his STB works into the DW sessions but i agree with you - sounds more like PC production. for sure this version here is no RS recording

Quote
dcba
The bunch of 1985 tracks give us a very interesting picture of what the DW sessions were like :


" I Can't See No One Else aka I Can't See Nobody III". April/June'85. Original material now and a bit of the song that'll end on "One Hit".

= Beside you (DAC 159) take 3 ?

Quote
Dorn

Quote
dcba

Quote
KRiffhard

Quote
Dorn
01- Nobody's Perfect
Nobody's Perfect
19850716-0817 RPM Studios, NYC

in my ears this is absolutely no DW outtake. Jagger´s singing is so much solo stuff sounding, also musical arrangements are much more 1985/1987 solo sessions. Nothing compareable to the rather rough sounding DW outtakes.
Nevertheless not a bad tune

Imo it comes from Primitive Cool sessions

As much as I respect Nico it does sound like a solo track with its horrible FM production and its slick charts-friendly sound.
But otoh there are no tracks on this triple set from solo ventures.

.
my first thought was that MJ brought this version as a leftover from his STB works into the DW sessions but i agree with you - sounds more like PC production. for sure this version here is no RS recording

Of course it is as you can clearly hear Keith and Charlie and most likely Ronnie on the solo (sure ain't Jeff Back or Jimmy Rip). Anyway why would there be a sole MJ solo track mixed with 49 bona fide Stones tracks ? ;-)

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
...
Of course it is as you can clearly hear Keith and Charlie and most likely Ronnie on the solo (sure ain't Jeff Back or Jimmy Rip). Anyway why would there be a sole MJ solo track mixed with 49 bona fide Stones tracks ? ;-)

Well, I wouldn't call Too Many Cooks a bona fide Stones track.

Every rule needs an exception...like someone popping up only two weeks ago on IORR and already mixing it with the experts ;-)

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Just noticed you had "Fast Talking" in 1972, it's now known to be from 1974, must be on NZB.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
Just noticed you had "Fast Talking" in 1972, it's now known to be from 1974, must be on NZB.

Thanks again for your info !

Good job with this thread, BlueTurns2Grey!

It's interesting how productive the Stones were in the '77–83 period, even the latter part of the 80s.

I gotta say, though, that the Stones made great choices when selecting tracks for Some Girls and to a lesser extent the albums that came after it. I guess a bunch of outtakes with the Stones are bound to have a lot of generic blues rock in them.

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LieB
Good job with this thread, BlueTurns2Grey!

It's interesting how productive the Stones were in the '77–83 period, even the latter part of the 80s.

I gotta say, though, that the Stones made great choices when selecting tracks for Some Girls and to a lesser extent the albums that came after it. I guess a bunch of outtakes with the Stones are bound to have a lot of generic blues rock in them.

Thank you. I think there is enough material for a Tatoo You II album or for some deluxe editions, which hopefully will come to light.