It was december 1966, when The Rolling Stones released their first live LP named "Got LIVE, if you want it" (*2). As you all know, it has nothing to do with their EP from 1965, which got the same title. To be honest, after listening to the "Ya-Ya's" album, there was no reason to put the "Got LIVE, if you want it" LP on my turntable. It had an unusual stereo mix with vocals featuring live audience noises on the left channel and instruments with audience sound on the right. Funny enough, two songs of the album have been recorded in studio and appeared with overdubbed live audience noises on this album. That didn't sound correct and in my ears, it sounded even mader in the early seventies, when DECCA (LONDON) released the "Gimmie Shelter" Album (yes, "Gimmie Shelter" instead of "Gimme Shelter", (*1) using studio songs and half the "GLIYWI" album to earn some money with the upcoming "Gimme Shelter" movie. We all know, this album got nothing to do with the movie.

But, i will go on and talk about the "Got LIVE, if you want it" album. It was laying there, unplayed for more than 20 years in my big record album, but then ABKCO released a digital remastered CD, which i bought (*3). I thought, you can't make it mader, but ABKCO did, because they faded every track in and out. Funny enough, this version is now no more available and collectors are looking foreward to get a copy of this raritie. Another 30 years later, I was reading an amazon review about a "Got LIVE, if you want it" download album. One of the authors wrote "This album got nothing to do with the 1966 album, it's a totally diffrent concert and a must have."

So I bought it for a third time and I was surprised. ABKCO mixed a new album in mono and for the first time, "Got LIVE, if you want it" sounded well in my ears.

But really a new concert? I wanted to know this exactly and so i compared the 1966 album, using "audacity" to see and not only hear the diffrence, from the 1966 lp with the 80ies CD and the 2017 download album. They did not only use a diffrent "Fortune Teller" version with overdubbs. The latest "GLIYWI" version got diffrent mixes, longer intros & outros, all done in mono and now it is sounding great (for me).


Here are the diffrences, that I recognised, from the 3 sources:


a) The 1966 LP "Got LIVE if you want it":

01 Under My Thumb - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo, short intro
02 Get Off Of My Cloud - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo mix
03 Lady Jane - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo mix
04 Not Fade Away - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo, longer guitar intro
05 I've Been Loving You Too Long - live backing overdubbed stereo version
06 Fortune Teller - III, live backing overdubbed version I, with harmonica
07 Satisfaction Intro / The Last Time - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo, long satisfaction intro
08 19th Nervous Breakdown - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo mix
09 Time Is On My Side - England 19650300, stereo mix
10 I'm Alright - England 19650300, stereo mix
11 Have You Seen Your Mother Baby - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo mix
12 (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo mix


b) The 1980ies remastered CD "Got LIVE if you want it" which is
simular to the 1966 LP, but all tracks are faded in and out. The CD is unavailable at the moment and rare:

01 Under My Thumb - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo, short intro
02 Get Off Of My Cloud - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo mix
03 Lady Jane - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo mix
04 Not Fade Away - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo, longer guitar intro
05 I've Been Loving You Too Long - live backing overdubbed stereo version
06 Fortune Teller - III, live backing overdubbed version I ("Saturday Club"-compilation version), with harmonica
07 Satisfaction Intro / The Last Time - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo, long satisfaction intro
08 19th Nervous Breakdown - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, stereo mix
09 Time Is On My Side - England 19650300, stereo mix
10 I'm Alright - England 19650300, stereo mix
11 Have You Seen Your Mother Baby - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo mix
12 (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, stereo mix


c) The 2017 download album (same as the 2002 ABKCO album) and CD "Got LIVE if you want it"
This is a totally diffrent mono mix of the 1966 album:

01 Under My Thumb - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, mono, long intro, diffrent vocal mix, no "aaaah' vocals before first verse, 'siamese cat' instead of 'siames little cat', slightly diffrent vocals at the end
02 Get Off Of My Cloud - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, mono mix
03 Lady Jane - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, mono mix
04 Not Fade Away - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, mono, longer outro
05 I've Been Loving You Too Long - live backing overdubbed mono version
06 Fortune Teller - IV, live backing overdubbed version II ("More Hot Rocks" cd version), no harmonica
07 Satisfaction Intro / The Last Time - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, mono, shorter diffrent satisfaction intro
08 19th Nervous Breakdown - Newcastle 19661001, 2nd Show, mono mix, longer outro
09 Time Is On My Side - England 19650300, totally diffrent mono mix
10 I'm Alright - England 19650300, mono mix, longer outro
11 Have You Seen Your Mother Baby - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, mono mix, longer outro
12 (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - Bristol 19661007, 2nd Show, shorter mono edit
"

*1: "GIMMIE SHELTER" LP-STICKER, DISCOGS:
[img.discogs.com])

*2: LP-COVER OF THE 1966 "GLIYWI"-LP, DISCOGS: [img.discogs.com]

*3: COVER OF THE 80ies REMASTERED "GLIYWI" CD-VERSION, DISCOGS: [img.discogs.com]

*4: COVER OF THE LATEST "GLIYWI" DOWNLOAD & CD-VERSION, DISCOGS: [img.discogs.com]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-04 19:39 by BlueTurns2Grey.

there is a longer intro on the 1986 cd i guess and on charlie is my darling


soundtrack there is hard ending on satisfaction.

Interesting.

I like the album because, even if not totally live, it's still The Rolling Stones playing live and in studio in 1966.

The old studio cuts with overdubbed audience is still daft, old live recordings better served on elsewhere, but the 1966 recordings are cool.

My notes:

Five distinct versions exist:

[*] 1966 mono London LP
[*] 1966 stereo London LP
[*] 1986 ABKCO version
[*] 1987 stereo German London version
[*] 2002 ABKCO version

The 1966 version use the Saturday Club version of Fortune Teller with harmonica. Intro "It's all about to happen" and Under My Thumb from Oct. 1, 1966 2nd.

The 1966 stereo LP is a poorly mixed version. For example, Fortune Teller is on one channel, and the audience on the other.

The 1986 ABKCO version is a different mix using some alternate versions and edits.
-Intro "And the Stones you shall have," and Under My Thumb from Oct. 7, 1966 2nd
-No harmonica on Fortune Teller
-lots of other minor differences, especially with Time is on My Side and I'm Alright

The 1987 London version from Germany is an improved mix of the 1966 LP with faded track transitions

The 2002 version is an improved mix of the 1986 version.

I think your "2017" version is the same as the 2002 version, from your description. I do not think that album has changed since then unless they released a folded mono version, which they probably did. I mean, the 1986 and 2002 versions already have a very narrow channel separation, especially with the instruments.
Some of the same tapes were probably used when making Charlie is My Darling.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-04 15:11 by blakeeik.

I don't know what do you mean with "2017 versions"
I don't find this only 2002 version
Can you upload (in private) this
Thanks

Wasn't the 1st cd by abkco(1986)actually the mono version of the very rare "Have you seen your mother live" lp ?? I cant find the thread but,i'm pretty sure,I read this right here several (maybe 5) years ago....

Interesting infos, thanks guys!

Quote
detroitken
Wasn't the 1st cd by abkco(1986)actually the mono version of the very rare "Have you seen your mother live" lp ?? I cant find the thread but,i'm pretty sure,I read this right here several (maybe 5) years ago....

I (supposedly) have a rip of the 1966 LP Have You Seen Your Mother Live! (Stereo). It is the Decca export version of 'Got LIVE If You Want It!' 1966 Vinyl Rip Japan LP. It is basically the 1966 stereo LP version, not the 1986 version. It is possible there are other versions out there.

Which one(S) have the marimba overdubbed on Under My Thumb?

Yes, you are absolutely right. My 2017 download version is the 2002 ABKCO version. I will edit my post. Thx.

As a matter of fact if we are talking about West German London CD 820 137-2 (with stereo mixes and fades between tracks) - the release date is July 1988 (according to Dieter Hoffmann's Das Weissbuch).

The CD was in press till late 1994 or early 1995 in Europe. There are at least 7 re-issues (re-presses) of this CD from (West) Germany and one by PMDC France. It is hardly rare, unless you are talking about the very 1st pressing.

Japanese P25L-25038 and POCD-1918 utilize the very same A/D transfer (mixes) but is mastered slightly different. Most probably analog dub tapes were used in Japan for production.

I didn't want to say, that the stereo cd, released in the 80ies, is the blue mauritius of all GLIYWI releases. But at the moment it the rarest version, 'cause all you can buy is the (better) mono version from 2002.

Quote
BlueTurns2Grey
I didn't want to say, that the stereo cd, released in the 80ies, is the blue mauritius of all GLIYWI releases. But at the moment it the rarest version, 'cause all you can buy is the (better) mono version from 2002.

That old London stereo CD is not a hard to get one from ebay, discogs or local record shops. Unless you are looking for specific pressing . Even Japanese P25L is not a difficult case. Well, it is in the case you are looking for a copy with 1st edition OBI .

Cool thread! I’ll post my Got Lives if you want them. Maybe you can post the catalog numbers with the descriptions?

Thanks!

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-17 21:13 by exilestones.

Quote
exilestones
Cool thread! I’ll post my Got Lives if you want them. Maybe you can post the catalog numbers with the descriptions?

Thanks!

The very 1st CD edition was Japan for US disc CD 493. Release date is given in Das Weissbuch 1991 as 'early 1987'. Disc was pressed by Memory Tech Inc. Matrix CD-493 MT 1A1 ++. There was another pressing from the same company with slightly different matrix - CD-493 + (plus is surrounded with 4 dots). It is already mentioned - the CD is weirdly mixed. It is neither 'pure mono', no 'wide stereo'. Some tracks contain a lot echo and/or phase shift (sound like electronically reproduced stereo). To my ears “I've Been Loving You Too Long” is the weirdest one.

Key features:
- different, complete introduction (the original mix cut off the intro after the introduction of Bill Wyman).
- "Under My Thumb" is a completely different take from Bristol, October 7, 1966. The original track was from Newcastle, October 1, 1966.
- various segues are different, some overdubs are different too.
- “I've Been Loving You Too Long” has enough stereo phasing.
- "Fortune Teller" is an alternate mix, with no harmonica and extra percussion overdubs.
- The final crowd noise fade is prolonged, and a bit of God Save The Queen is heard at the end

London CD 820 137-2 was made in West Germany from completely different tape. It is all stereo but sounds weird too. No way there was no bleed-through between the band and Mick's microphone. Sometimes it seems that Mick is singing in a vacuum all alone and the rest of the band is playing somewhere else. For unknown reason fades are introduced at the beginning and the end for all tracks. Studio tracks came with strange crowd overdubs
- “I've Been Loving You Too Long” the band is mixed left, the vocal is centered, and the crowd noise is right, with little to no "bleed" between the two channels.
- "Fortune Teller" "harmonica" variant- the actual mono studio track is mixed into both channels, with the crowd noise only occupying one.
This disc first appear in July 1988. Disc was made on Hanover pressing plant. Matrix 820 137-2 01 * MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO. As I mentioned before, this variant was re-issued (re-pressed) at least 7 times in (West) Germany by PDO (matrix strings MADE IN W.GERMANY BY PDO, MADE IN GERMANY BY PDO), PRS (MADE IN GERMANY) and PMDC (MADE IN GERMANY BY PMDC). I shall not go deep into tiny details. The second glass master (820 137-2 02 /) was cut around 1990 and was in use till the end of production run in 1994. In France the same CD was pressed from German glass master 02 / by PMDC France (around 1994). Funny thing - French discs came with German booklets. All German and French made discs are digital clones within null samples and offsets.

In Japan disc appeared on April 25 1989. Catalog P25L 25038. Matrix P25L25038-A1E11 (or 12). Pressed by JVC plant. It contains the same A/D transfer as West German CD but is mastered slightly different. It looks that in Japan they were using analog dub tape and made local 'production' mastering. Lets say - material is the same but it sounds a bit different. The same mastering was used in 1995 for POCD-1918 (Matrix IFPI L151 POCD-1918 2 A1 TO). Pressed by Toshiba.

All European discs 844 467-2 (from 1995 till 2002), all US discs 74931, PS 493 and Japanese POCD-1965 came with US ABKCO mastering - i.e. weird mono-stereo.

I do not have information about two lesser known editions from that period - Brazilian Sonopress made London 820 137-2 and PMDC US made London 820 137-2. One can only guess what tapes and mixes were used. In both cases discs were pressed after 1994.

The remaster for SACD-hybrid discs and all re-issues from 2002 till now generally repeats old US ABKCO mastering. I.e. it is weird mono-stereo. It is just different transfer of the same tape. Some Japanese CDs could possibly be affected by 'production' mastering (i.e. level shifted) but initial A/D transfer is the very same - 2002.

Quote
exilestones
[wetransfer.com]


UICY-93789

+++++


[wetransfer.com]

UICY-93022


+++++

[wetransfer.com]

UICY-93789.rar


+++++


[wetransfer.com]


74932.rar


+++++


[wetransfer.com]

820-137-2

+++++

[wetransfer.com]

LL-3494

Fantastic, thank you!

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
exilestones
Cool thread! I’ll post my Got Lives if you want them. Maybe you can post the catalog numbers with the descriptions?

Thanks!

The very 1st CD edition was Japan for US disc CD 493. Release date is given in Das Weissbuch 1991 as 'early 1987'. Disc was pressed by Memory Tech Inc. Matrix CD-493 MT 1A1 ++. There was another pressing from the same company with slightly different matrix - CD-493 + (plus is surrounded with 4 dots). It is already mentioned - the CD is weirdly mixed. It is neither 'pure mono', no 'wide stereo'. Some tracks contain a lot echo and/or phase shift (sound like electronically reproduced stereo). To my ears “I've Been Loving You Too Long” is the weirdest one.

Key features:
- different, complete introduction (the original mix cut off the intro after the introduction of Bill Wyman).
- "Under My Thumb" is a completely different take from Bristol, October 7, 1966. The original track was from Newcastle, October 1, 1966.
- various segues are different, some overdubs are different too.
- “I've Been Loving You Too Long” has enough stereo phasing.
- "Fortune Teller" is an alternate mix, with no harmonica and extra percussion overdubs.
- The final crowd noise fade is prolonged, and a bit of God Save The Queen is heard at the end

London CD 820 137-2 was made in West Germany from completely different tape. It is all stereo but sounds weird too. No way there was no bleed-through between the band and Mick's microphone. Sometimes it seems that Mick is singing in a vacuum all alone and the rest of the band is playing somewhere else. For unknown reason fades are introduced at the beginning and the end for all tracks. Studio tracks came with strange crowd overdubs
- “I've Been Loving You Too Long” the band is mixed left, the vocal is centered, and the crowd noise is right, with little to no "bleed" between the two channels.
- "Fortune Teller" "harmonica" variant- the actual mono studio track is mixed into both channels, with the crowd noise only occupying one.
This disc first appear in July 1988. Disc was made on Hanover pressing plant. Matrix 820 137-2 01 * MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO. As I mentioned before, this variant was re-issued (re-pressed) at least 7 times in (West) Germany by PDO (matrix strings MADE IN W.GERMANY BY PDO, MADE IN GERMANY BY PDO), PRS (MADE IN GERMANY) and PMDC (MADE IN GERMANY BY PMDC). I shall not go deep into tiny details. The second glass master (820 137-2 02 /) was cut around 1990 and was in use till the end of production run in 1994. In France the same CD was pressed from German glass master 02 / by PMDC France (around 1994). Funny thing - French discs came with German booklets. All German and French made discs are digital clones within null samples and offsets.

In Japan disc appeared on April 25 1989. Catalog P25L 25038. Matrix P25L25038-A1E11 (or 12). Pressed by JVC plant. It contains the same A/D transfer as West German CD but is mastered slightly different. It looks that in Japan they were using analog dub tape and made local 'production' mastering. Lets say - material is the same but it sounds a bit different. The same mastering was used in 1995 for POCD-1918 (Matrix IFPI L151 POCD-1918 2 A1 TO). Pressed by Toshiba.

All European discs 844 467-2 (from 1995 till 2002), all US discs 74931, PS 493 and Japanese POCD-1965 came with US ABKCO mastering - i.e. weird mono-stereo.

I do not have information about two lesser known editions from that period - Brazilian Sonopress made London 820 137-2 and PMDC US made London 820 137-2. One can only guess what tapes and mixes were used. In both cases discs were pressed after 1994.

The remaster for SACD-hybrid discs and all re-issues from 2002 till now generally repeats old US ABKCO mastering. I.e. it is weird mono-stereo. It is just different transfer of the same tape. Some Japanese CDs could possibly be affected by 'production' mastering (i.e. level shifted) but initial A/D transfer is the very same - 2002.

Thank you for sharing your in-depth knowledge of the subject!

Thanks

Does anybody know if the very rare mono LP from 1966 called "Have You Seen Your Mother Live!" (produced by DECCA in the UK for sale on continental Europe) has the same mono mix as the US mono LP "Got Live If You Want It!" on London Records?

[www.discogs.com]

Thanks for your comments and your uploads. Now i've got to compare all these tracks again, because there are minimum 4 diffrent sounding versions / mixes of the album. I only knew about 3. And I've never seen, that there is a version under the title 'Have You Seen Your Mother LIVE'. But, every day is a schoolday... I'm sorry, but I also don't know anything about the mix of this rare Decca version.

Quote
BlueTurns2Grey
Thanks for your comments and your uploads. Now i've got to compare all these tracks again, because there are minimum 4 diffrent sounding versions / mixes of the album. I only knew about 3. And I've never seen, that there is a version under the title 'Have You Seen Your Mother LIVE'. But, every day is a schoolday... I'm sorry, but I also don't know anything about the mix of this rare Decca version.

There's more info here on Jan's excellent site:
[www.stonesondecca.com]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
Deltics

Quote
BlueTurns2Grey
Thanks for your comments and your uploads. Now i've got to compare all these tracks again, because there are minimum 4 diffrent sounding versions / mixes of the album. I only knew about 3. And I've never seen, that there is a version under the title 'Have You Seen Your Mother LIVE'. But, every day is a schoolday... I'm sorry, but I also don't know anything about the mix of this rare Decca version.

There's more info here on Jan's excellent site:
[www.stonesondecca.com]

Thanks again. Just took your link to stonesondecca. Can't believe, that someone copied the red labels and tried to sell this faked stuff.

Quote
BlueTurns2Grey

Quote
Deltics

Quote
BlueTurns2Grey
Thanks for your comments and your uploads. Now i've got to compare all these tracks again, because there are minimum 4 diffrent sounding versions / mixes of the album. I only knew about 3. And I've never seen, that there is a version under the title 'Have You Seen Your Mother LIVE'. But, every day is a schoolday... I'm sorry, but I also don't know anything about the mix of this rare Decca version.

There's more info here on Jan's excellent site:
[www.stonesondecca.com]

Thanks again. Just took your link to stonesondecca. Can't believe, that someone copied the red labels and tried to sell this faked stuff.

What I found interesting was the theory that NONE of the recordings are actually live but studio recordings with the audience dubbed on.
I removed the screams from this recording, tell me what you think.






"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
Deltics

Quote
BlueTurns2Grey

Quote
Deltics

Quote
BlueTurns2Grey
Thanks for your comments and your uploads. Now i've got to compare all these tracks again, because there are minimum 4 diffrent sounding versions / mixes of the album. I only knew about 3. And I've never seen, that there is a version under the title 'Have You Seen Your Mother LIVE'. But, every day is a schoolday... I'm sorry, but I also don't know anything about the mix of this rare Decca version.

There's more info here on Jan's excellent site:
[www.stonesondecca.com]

Thanks again. Just took your link to stonesondecca. Can't believe, that someone copied the red labels and tried to sell this faked stuff.

What I found interesting was the theory that NONE of the recordings are actually live but studio recordings with the audience dubbed on.
I removed the screams from this recording, tell me what you think.

Good work!
Well, everything is possible and they did lots of reworks on the tracks. But I think it's live, the drums and the voice don't sound like a studio recording to me. Funny enough, they released it elsewhere, but not in GB, before the mid seventies. I remember a german double album 'Stone Age / Got Live If You Want It', which my brother bought in the early 70s, but that was typical Decca thing in those times.

An old thread on Got Live....

[iorr.org]

Quote
Deltics
What I found interesting was the theory that NONE of the recordings are actually live but studio recordings with the audience dubbed on.
I removed the screams from this recording, tell me what you think.

I've always thought this album was a hot mess: all versions have lots of edits, overdubs, and "creative mixing." I imagine the original sources were barely usable by 1966 standards. But I doubt that the other tracks (besides FT and IBLYTL) were original studio tracks with audience overdubs.

Despite it being a hot mess, I think they tried to "fix it" into an accurate representation of what a concert in 1966 might be like, and since there is little to compare to, I like the album for that reason. Of course, I think Charlie is My Darling surpasses it big time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-09 16:15 by blakeeik.

After listening to vinyl rip (thank you, exilestones) I have new favorite weirdo - Not Fade Away. Just check the amount of echo they added to 1986 US remaster and 2002 DSD remaster. Actually, that song on both discs sounds like ugly electronically reproduced stereo.

Stick to Live in England 1965 from Charlie Is My Darling Deluxe and forget this one.

Thank you to all who have contributed to this interesting thread.

Can anyone upload the complete album with audience removed please ????

This was my era and I remember well the Birmingham UK concert in October with Ike & Tina and he Yardbirds (Beck and Page).

The audience just lost it when the Stones took to the stage...utter chaos but the music played that night was fantastic.....all in one show.

THX both Exilestones and Deltics