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dennycranium
While I hope we can resolve this little family spat, maybe I can offer a little perspective.

It's tough recording the shows. I've taped a few shows in my day and you have to worry about getting your gear in. You have to find a spot that gets good sound, not too many rowdy fans and manage not to get caught.The net result is this: chances are you don't get to enjoy the show very much while trying to focus on getting a good recording.

On the two shows I've seen this year, I recorded 4 songs with my phone. I was concerned that these might be my last shows, ever, and I wanted to savor every minute.

So, I can relate to the tapers and I think we should respect their request that their recordings don't get stepped on and redistributed for public use. If you're wanting to remix it for your own use? I would be fine with that.
If one feels the need to remix and share a show? Maybe ask the taper if he's okay with it and send a sample to him/her and get their blessing. If they ask you not to share it publicly? Respect their wishes.I seem to recall that we got permission from taper and gave them proper credit when posting.

Those of us who download the shows have a voracious appetite for them. When we get a show on FileFactory, the first requests are for a wetransfer link or my pet peeve: "any artwork?" before saying thank you!
It may take longer to download over FF but you'll get the show. I've invested in FF at $49.00 a year and I will repost WT links for requests

So, I think the tapers are feeling taken advantage of and unappreciated. I can understand why.

To the tapers? I hope you can see fit to continue to share your recordings with us after we try to work this out.I'll be your advocates in not altering your recording and saying thanks.

I received a soundboard tape from a 1990 show. It was in Madrid where the Stones performed Blinded By Love, the ONLY time it's been performed.
I shared CDR's with a few people, but it was impressed upon me that this show needed to be shared. I got permission from the person who gave the tape to me and it made its way to VGP. We then got Blinded By Love For Gypsy Kings. My payment? 75 copies which I gave away to people in the SFJ circle.

I tell this story to try to get the tapers to share their recordings with us. I could have sat on my tape but I'm happy everyone is able to hear that show. I was at Burl's Creek and Foxboro. I hope there are good recordings out there that make their way here.

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NathanLaze
i may sound ridiculous but when it comes to sharing recordings, i suppose that afterwards it is no more your property. you gave it to people once, so you can't take it away any more, just as a matter of nature of sharing digital files. yes, the respect to tapers is a very good thing, but believe me, people is always people, as Keef said,, and furthermore,, as mr. Jesus said, it's better to give than take, always... isn't this board created for anything more than just to give ?? so when you make a gift to somebody on this board (= everyone), i suppose that it's not yours anymore as long as you uploaded it for public use, or private, whatever....this is just the matter of give and take. The taper's request is a good will that should be fulfilled and respected, of course, but when it comes to terms of people's relationships, then.... etc... and, as Mr. Teddy Boy says, don't regret anything that you gave away, it would return to you eventually and in multiple times more. so,,, you may call me "son of a preacher man" anytime you want to

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NathanLaze
just looks strange when you give an apple to someone and ask him not to make an apple jam, only to eat as it is

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NathanLaze
i may sound ridiculous but when it comes to sharing recordings, i suppose that afterwards it is no more your property. you gave it to people once, so you can't take it away any more, just as a matter of nature of sharing digital files. yes, the respect to tapers is a very good thing, but believe me, people is always people, as Keef said,, and furthermore,, as mr. Jesus said, it's better to give than take, always... isn't this board created for anything more than just to give ?? so when you make a gift to somebody on this board (= everyone), i suppose that it's not yours anymore as long as you uploaded it for public use, or private, whatever....this is just the matter of give and take. The taper's request is a good will that should be fulfilled and respected, of course, but when it comes to terms of people's relationships, then.... etc... and, as Mr. Teddy Boy says, don't regret anything that you gave away, it would return to you eventually and in multiple times more. so,,, you may call me "son of a preacher man" anytime you want to

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daspyknows

I just need to make the point I record many bands, both big and small and there is only one band where this remastering nonsense happens. I share ALL my recordings and many people have gotten them (including the shows in question) but telling tapers (not just me) that we need to release these shows and should not be bothered that someone chooses to ruin the recordings does not make us want to release then. Most of the tapers I know feel the same way about this topic. I receive NO benefits from sharing recordings besides the good feeling of doing so. Seeing a show I worked hard to record remastered takes away that good feeling so I get nothing out of it besides a headache.

Remember this discussion started before Philly when people on here were wondering why many of the good recordings weren't being shared after Chicago. One person insinuated it was because tapers were holding out to sell their recordings for profits which is at it's core insulting. I made it clear that was not the case but it was the poorly done remasters which was making tapers share privately. Maybe if a few of the people involved bought gear, put in the effort to record and share their recordings they would get a better perspective rather than just sitting at their keyboard. Check the thread, one person said he poorly recorded part of a show once and "binned it" because it sucked.

Using the excuse the shows are too far away doesn't carry any weight as I have gotten on planes to record and met many from other countries traveling to attend these shows. If there are shows in 2020 on planet earth I will be there with my gear.

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falo01
BTW, the argument that tapers were holding out to sell their recordings for profits is indeed bullshit (beside the fact that it's insulting too).
Watching the CD scene the last years, it´s mostly the other way round:

Once something is shared here for free, it usually takes the labels 1 week to announce their CD release. They are stealing from here.

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daspyknows

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falo01
BTW, the argument that tapers were holding out to sell their recordings for profits is indeed bullshit (beside the fact that it's insulting too).
Watching the CD scene the last years, it´s mostly the other way round:

Once something is shared here for free, it usually takes the labels 1 week to announce their CD release. They are stealing from here.

Its Dime. They steal my stuff all the time off of there.

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daspyknows
I receive NO benefits from sharing recordings besides the good feeling of doing so. Seeing a show I worked hard to record remastered takes away that good feeling so I get nothing out of it besides a headache.

[*] why am i doing this?
[*] is there something that needs correcting or could be improved?
[*] can i correct/improve it or am i just trying to make it sound more to my taste?

[*] have i prepared this - mastered it - ready for release?
[*] if not, then am i inviting people to do it for me?

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daspyknows

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falo01
BTW, the argument that tapers were holding out to sell their recordings for profits is indeed bullshit (beside the fact that it's insulting too).
Watching the CD scene the last years, it´s mostly the other way round:

Once something is shared here for free, it usually takes the labels 1 week to announce their CD release. They are stealing from here.

Its Dime. They steal my stuff all the time off of there.

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JimmyShelter
I think tapers need to ask:

[*] have i prepared this - mastered it - ready for release?
[*] if not, then am i inviting people to do it for me?

Some tapers get annoyed at pointless remasters because what they put out was already well mastered and perfectly good. You have to have sympathy for those tapers.
Others though, put out recordings that they should be ashamed of, one channel twice as high as the other, very poorly balance eq, etc. If you are going to release stuff like that then maybe you only have yourself to blame if someone takes it upon themselves to master it for you.

It's an old argument that will no doubt carry on getting older.

One thing is for certain, if you don't want your work to be stolen and used against your wishes, then don't release it. Because once you let it out into the wild, it's gone, you have no control over it any more.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

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ade

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daspyknows

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falo01
BTW, the argument that tapers were holding out to sell their recordings for profits is indeed bullshit (beside the fact that it's insulting too).
Watching the CD scene the last years, it´s mostly the other way round:

Once something is shared here for free, it usually takes the labels 1 week to announce their CD release. They are stealing from here.

Its Dime. They steal my stuff all the time off of there.

and then there's all the people who download stuff off dime just to re-up on guitars101 using rapidgator, turbobit, filefactory and other hosts that will pay them a couple of cents per 1000 downloads back.

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JimmyShelter
I think people on both sides of the remaster argument need to ask themselves some questions sometimes.

As a remasterer we need to ask:

[*] why am i doing this?
[*] is there something that needs correcting or could be improved?
[*] can i correct/improve it or am i just trying to make it sound more to my taste?

To my mind, the whole point of remastering is to correct/improve. It's like adding salt, if you like more salt then you can add more, but you can't take it out once someone else has added it. The aim should be to try to make the recording 'right', not just to add more bass because you like more bass.

I think tapers need to ask:

[*] have i prepared this - mastered it - ready for release?
[*] if not, then am i inviting people to do it for me?

Some tapers get annoyed at pointless remasters because what they put out was already well mastered and perfectly good. You have to have sympathy for those tapers.
Others though, put out recordings that they should be ashamed of, one channel twice as high as the other, very poorly balance eq, etc. If you are going to release stuff like that then maybe you only have yourself to blame if someone takes it upon themselves to master it for you.

It's an old argument that will no doubt carry on getting older.

One thing is for certain, if you don't want your work to be stolen and used against your wishes, then don't release it. Because once you let it out into the wild, it's gone, you have no control over it any more.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

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Munichhilton

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JimmyShelter
I think people on both sides of the remaster argument need to ask themselves some questions sometimes.

As a remasterer we need to ask:

[*] why am i doing this?
[*] is there something that needs correcting or could be improved?
[*] can i correct/improve it or am i just trying to make it sound more to my taste?

To my mind, the whole point of remastering is to correct/improve. It's like adding salt, if you like more salt then you can add more, but you can't take it out once someone else has added it. The aim should be to try to make the recording 'right', not just to add more bass because you like more bass.

I think tapers need to ask:

[*] have i prepared this - mastered it - ready for release?
[*] if not, then am i inviting people to do it for me?

Some tapers get annoyed at pointless remasters because what they put out was already well mastered and perfectly good. You have to have sympathy for those tapers.
Others though, put out recordings that they should be ashamed of, one channel twice as high as the other, very poorly balance eq, etc. If you are going to release stuff like that then maybe you only have yourself to blame if someone takes it upon themselves to master it for you.

It's an old argument that will no doubt carry on getting older.

One thing is for certain, if you don't want your work to be stolen and used against your wishes, then don't release it. Because once you let it out into the wild, it's gone, you have no control over it any more.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Logic is so beautiful when it's loud and clear

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Quique-stone

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Munichhilton

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JimmyShelter
I think people on both sides of the remaster argument need to ask themselves some questions sometimes.

As a remasterer we need to ask:

[*] why am i doing this?
[*] is there something that needs correcting or could be improved?
[*] can i correct/improve it or am i just trying to make it sound more to my taste?

To my mind, the whole point of remastering is to correct/improve. It's like adding salt, if you like more salt then you can add more, but you can't take it out once someone else has added it. The aim should be to try to make the recording 'right', not just to add more bass because you like more bass.

I think tapers need to ask:

[*] have i prepared this - mastered it - ready for release?
[*] if not, then am i inviting people to do it for me?

Some tapers get annoyed at pointless remasters because what they put out was already well mastered and perfectly good. You have to have sympathy for those tapers.
Others though, put out recordings that they should be ashamed of, one channel twice as high as the other, very poorly balance eq, etc. If you are going to release stuff like that then maybe you only have yourself to blame if someone takes it upon themselves to master it for you.

It's an old argument that will no doubt carry on getting older.

One thing is for certain, if you don't want your work to be stolen and used against your wishes, then don't release it. Because once you let it out into the wild, it's gone, you have no control over it any more.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Logic is so beautiful when it's loud and clear

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JimmyShelter
Well I come to this debate from the remastering side, but it is never a bad thing to appreciate the view of 'the other side', you might learn something.

I once had an argument, that became a discussion, that became a conversation about all of this with Lostbrook (who's work is always properly mastered by CQ), we became friends in the end.
Not only did I gain a friend, but I also came to have a better understanding and appreciation of his perspective. It made me rethink things and I came to think of it as I do now. I realised that I had started to remaster other peoples work, not because it needed it, but 'because it was there'.
I found myself doing less remasters after that, but I also found myself being more satisfied with what I was doing, because it was actually 'achieving' something. It also meant that I had more time to do what I was doing, rather than trying to get on with the next one.

Some of us don't have the opportunities to go out taping bands. Some of us are clearly not very adept with software or EQing. A bit more thought and a spirit of cooperation could do us all a lot of good.

[logic and wisdom, don't say I never give you anything ]

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JimmyShelter
Well I come to this debate from the remastering side, but it is never a bad thing to appreciate the view of 'the other side', you might learn something.

I once had an argument, that became a discussion, that became a conversation about all of this with Lostbrook (who's work is always properly mastered by CQ), we became friends in the end.
Not only did I gain a friend, but I also came to have a better understanding and appreciation of his perspective. It made me rethink things and I came to think of it as I do now. I realised that I had started to remaster other peoples work, not because it needed it, but 'because it was there'.
I found myself doing less remasters after that, but I also found myself being more satisfied with what I was doing, because it was actually 'achieving' something. It also meant that I had more time to do what I was doing, rather than trying to get on with the next one.

Some of us don't have the opportunities to go out taping bands. Some of us are clearly not very adept with software or EQing. A bit more thought and a spirit of cooperation could do us all a lot of good.

[logic and wisdom, don't say I never give you anything ]

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eibert

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JimmyShelter
Well I come to this debate from the remastering side, but it is never a bad thing to appreciate the view of 'the other side', you might learn something.

I once had an argument, that became a discussion, that became a conversation about all of this with Lostbrook (who's work is always properly mastered by CQ), we became friends in the end.
Not only did I gain a friend, but I also came to have a better understanding and appreciation of his perspective. It made me rethink things and I came to think of it as I do now. I realised that I had started to remaster other peoples work, not because it needed it, but 'because it was there'.
I found myself doing less remasters after that, but I also found myself being more satisfied with what I was doing, because it was actually 'achieving' something. It also meant that I had more time to do what I was doing, rather than trying to get on with the next one.

Some of us don't have the opportunities to go out taping bands. Some of us are clearly not very adept with software or EQing. A bit more thought and a spirit of cooperation could do us all a lot of good.

[logic and wisdom, don't say I never give you anything ]

Beautiful spoken, I hope it will work out.

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Erik_Snow
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