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I really don’t think that is what’s happening here. Certain bands like Metallica have came out and said that but not the Stones. Mick Jagger has even said he didn’t care about bootleg recordings as long as they were not too expensive. He didn’t want the fans to get ripped off. Of course the company with release rights at the time may disagree.
I think it’s more about legacy. I can certainly see how it would be annoying to a taper to go through all the trouble to make a great recording, make a great product, make it available for everyone, and then someone else come along change it and put their name all over it, and maybe even remove their’s. That’s not right. To those tapers I say this: first of all, thank you! I really appreciate you sharing your recordings. Second of all, there maybe some fans that have not understood or have not regarded your wishes. But there are many that have and you should not conflate all fans with those few. The big boot labels, for example, have taken fans’ work and sold it after minimal work. What can you do about that?
At the same, many fans enjoy collecting, sharing, and listening to any music they can find. Some recordings are not as good and can use someone with a good ear and some talent to assemble and fix them. They don’t need to be called out for that.
All I am saying is I”d rather not see people argue, give up and leave for such things. In these forums, you can make your points, get on and get over it.
It might be but what obligation does the taper have to share his or her recordings? In that case there is none?
The recordings are being freely shared with a simple request which is please dont f#ck with it (remaster or mp3) sell it or post on "pay sites". If someone wants to remaster a show for their ears, fine go for it but then publicly releasing it and not even noting that anything was done as in this case is wrong. This confuses people and is liking peeing in the pool which is very different. Adding to that is the attitude of a few (like this) that we have an obligation to share what we do but have no right to be upset is amusing.
This all started because people were whining that tapers were not taping the tour and people wondered why. There were comments suggesting we were holding out to sell them which is not the case. I passed on what I was told when I received 2 shows. "Please do not share publicly, I do not want my shows remastered". When Ed posted his recording I commented about no remasters and shortly after the remaster was posted. When Ed found out he was pissed as were other tapers. All we got was attitude from a few so sharing privately is being done now. I will continue to share other recordings but the Stones recordings will be like the Allman Brothers, Metallica and a few others that are shared privately.
Since there is a phone recording out that can be mastered everyone should be happy now, right?
Chris, take a break, but then come back. You’ve been an important part of the community. Please?
Give us a farewell gift = share a few unreleased "Art Collins" tracks!
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Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
stonesmuziekfan
()
Date: August 4, 2019 18:44
Thanks Chris for all the support you gave me and Stonesvault in the past.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
eibert
()
Date: August 4, 2019 20:42
So sad to read all those comments and why. I think there are more important matters to argue about. Hope everybody will clear its mind.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
blakeeik
()
Date: August 4, 2019 22:58
I’m really at a loss for words. I really can’t understand why so many good people have such a strong disagreement here.
I don’t think there’s anything here that is worth turning your back on the other people in the community. I truly don’t understand how anyone has such strong feelings about it. On either side.
If you are a taper and you don’t want people to alter your recordings, then everyone else should respect that. But if they don’t, I don’t see why anyone should give a shit. Yes, if you are a taper, I am sure that you spent a lot of money and go through a lot of issues to make good recordings. But at the end of the day you can’t control what other people do when they get it.
And if a fan wants to “remaster“ any recordings, I would hope they would follow the wishes of the taper. And at least describe what they did to it to change it and not claim it as their own work. Iif any one else that wants to listen to it shouldn’t bother anyone else. People that do such things will deservedly gain their own reputation.
It just seems that this got way too out of hand for no reason and I really don’t see why people should care so much about the comments in the post in the long term.
Peace out
I don’t think there’s anything here that is worth turning your back on the other people in the community. I truly don’t understand how anyone has such strong feelings about it. On either side.
If you are a taper and you don’t want people to alter your recordings, then everyone else should respect that. But if they don’t, I don’t see why anyone should give a shit. Yes, if you are a taper, I am sure that you spent a lot of money and go through a lot of issues to make good recordings. But at the end of the day you can’t control what other people do when they get it.
And if a fan wants to “remaster“ any recordings, I would hope they would follow the wishes of the taper. And at least describe what they did to it to change it and not claim it as their own work. Iif any one else that wants to listen to it shouldn’t bother anyone else. People that do such things will deservedly gain their own reputation.
It just seems that this got way too out of hand for no reason and I really don’t see why people should care so much about the comments in the post in the long term.
Peace out
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: August 5, 2019 09:54
Yeah, Blakeeik, really spot on!
But I'd like to add that in a nutshell, it is all about breaking rules: I find it somewhat funny that stealth tapers who break the rules of those artists who not explicitly allow the taping of their shows complain about amateur audio engineers breaking the taper's rules not to remaster their recordings... Isn't that a bit... yeah, what exactly is it?
But I'd like to add that in a nutshell, it is all about breaking rules: I find it somewhat funny that stealth tapers who break the rules of those artists who not explicitly allow the taping of their shows complain about amateur audio engineers breaking the taper's rules not to remaster their recordings... Isn't that a bit... yeah, what exactly is it?
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
nick
()
Date: August 5, 2019 11:27
The same way we download, buy, listen and watch.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-05 11:28 by nick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-05 11:28 by nick.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
blakeeik
()
Date: August 5, 2019 11:30
Quote
retired_dog
Yeah, Blakeeik, really spot on!
But I'd like to add that in a nutshell, it is all about breaking rules: I find it somewhat funny that stealth tapers who break the rules of those artists who not explicitly allow the taping of their shows complain about amateur audio engineers breaking the taper's rules not to remaster their recordings... Isn't that a bit... yeah, what exactly is it?
I really don’t think that is what’s happening here. Certain bands like Metallica have came out and said that but not the Stones. Mick Jagger has even said he didn’t care about bootleg recordings as long as they were not too expensive. He didn’t want the fans to get ripped off. Of course the company with release rights at the time may disagree.
I think it’s more about legacy. I can certainly see how it would be annoying to a taper to go through all the trouble to make a great recording, make a great product, make it available for everyone, and then someone else come along change it and put their name all over it, and maybe even remove their’s. That’s not right. To those tapers I say this: first of all, thank you! I really appreciate you sharing your recordings. Second of all, there maybe some fans that have not understood or have not regarded your wishes. But there are many that have and you should not conflate all fans with those few. The big boot labels, for example, have taken fans’ work and sold it after minimal work. What can you do about that?
At the same, many fans enjoy collecting, sharing, and listening to any music they can find. Some recordings are not as good and can use someone with a good ear and some talent to assemble and fix them. They don’t need to be called out for that.
All I am saying is I”d rather not see people argue, give up and leave for such things. In these forums, you can make your points, get on and get over it.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
stonesvault
()
Date: August 5, 2019 16:00
First I was thinking [www.youtube.com]
Afterall it's just a matter of words, rules and some shouting
The shouting was even not adressed to me but to RSKinno
I only was the messenger boy
The wind has turned and blew it all away at my adress
First I was thinking "What to do now"
I joined this forum 15 years ago and first started downloading what I could find.
Within a Year I started uploading with Rapidshare, Megaupload and whatever site that was hosting, but they all stopped and my uploads disappeared.
Than Wetransfer arrived with links valid for 14 days. The whole world jumped on it and than they did change to links valid for one week.
The idea was born to find a hoster that would keep the files longer available, and after two diskcrashes I was ready.
Yhe choise I had was to buy new externals (very expensive at the time) or to upload in the cloud. at the same time I was able to share the link, so .....
Twee vliegen in een klap < > Two birds with one stone.
I must say thanks to Strettonbull for his research advise and setting up the account.
I can tell uploading is a lot of work but promised myself to share as much as I can and still like doing this.
After 15 years I first thought I'm tired of it
especially that nagging about wetransfer
uploading the same file twice
One file is still possible, but if I do 20 uploads it is a lot of administration
Workupload is more easy and in holiday season one can anticipate by setting validation for more weeks, but this site can suddenly decide to delete the uploads and also is limited to 50 GB.
To conclude
I will continue my work and if you suffer from a disk crash you can fall back on stonesvault, so keep Stonesvault alive.
Stonesvault - [iorr.org]
When you have Stonesfiles you'd hate to loose you can upload them to the guestlink.
Saves me time and for you available as a backup.
Afterall it's just a matter of words, rules and some shouting
The shouting was even not adressed to me but to RSKinno
I only was the messenger boy
The wind has turned and blew it all away at my adress
First I was thinking "What to do now"
I joined this forum 15 years ago and first started downloading what I could find.
Within a Year I started uploading with Rapidshare, Megaupload and whatever site that was hosting, but they all stopped and my uploads disappeared.
Than Wetransfer arrived with links valid for 14 days. The whole world jumped on it and than they did change to links valid for one week.
The idea was born to find a hoster that would keep the files longer available, and after two diskcrashes I was ready.
Yhe choise I had was to buy new externals (very expensive at the time) or to upload in the cloud. at the same time I was able to share the link, so .....
Twee vliegen in een klap < > Two birds with one stone.
I must say thanks to Strettonbull for his research advise and setting up the account.
I can tell uploading is a lot of work but promised myself to share as much as I can and still like doing this.
After 15 years I first thought I'm tired of it
especially that nagging about wetransfer
uploading the same file twice
One file is still possible, but if I do 20 uploads it is a lot of administration
Workupload is more easy and in holiday season one can anticipate by setting validation for more weeks, but this site can suddenly decide to delete the uploads and also is limited to 50 GB.
To conclude
I will continue my work and if you suffer from a disk crash you can fall back on stonesvault, so keep Stonesvault alive.
Stonesvault - [iorr.org]
When you have Stonesfiles you'd hate to loose you can upload them to the guestlink.
Saves me time and for you available as a backup.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
Rank Stranger
()
Date: August 5, 2019 16:17
Quote
stonesvault
To conclude
I will continue my work and if you suffer from a disk crash you can fall back on stonesvault, so keep Stonesvault alive.
Stonesvault - [iorr.org]
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
Ya-Yas
()
Date: August 5, 2019 16:55
Jaap,
your work is priceless. Keep on keeping on.
THANK YOU!
Matti
your work is priceless. Keep on keeping on.
THANK YOU!
Matti
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
daspyknows
()
Date: August 5, 2019 17:44
Quote
retired_dog
Yeah, Blakeeik, really spot on!
But I'd like to add that in a nutshell, it is all about breaking rules: I find it somewhat funny that stealth tapers who break the rules of those artists who not explicitly allow the taping of their shows complain about amateur audio engineers breaking the taper's rules not to remaster their recordings... Isn't that a bit... yeah, what exactly is it?
It might be but what obligation does the taper have to share his or her recordings? In that case there is none?
The recordings are being freely shared with a simple request which is please dont f#ck with it (remaster or mp3) sell it or post on "pay sites". If someone wants to remaster a show for their ears, fine go for it but then publicly releasing it and not even noting that anything was done as in this case is wrong. This confuses people and is liking peeing in the pool which is very different. Adding to that is the attitude of a few (like this) that we have an obligation to share what we do but have no right to be upset is amusing.
This all started because people were whining that tapers were not taping the tour and people wondered why. There were comments suggesting we were holding out to sell them which is not the case. I passed on what I was told when I received 2 shows. "Please do not share publicly, I do not want my shows remastered". When Ed posted his recording I commented about no remasters and shortly after the remaster was posted. When Ed found out he was pissed as were other tapers. All we got was attitude from a few so sharing privately is being done now. I will continue to share other recordings but the Stones recordings will be like the Allman Brothers, Metallica and a few others that are shared privately.
Since there is a phone recording out that can be mastered everyone should be happy now, right?
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
elmuseo
()
Date: August 5, 2019 19:37
I used to be a taper in the 80s
I was given a walkman Aiwa (Japan) which recorded with an exceptional accuracy for those days.
It was difficult to get it in the concert as you could have it taken by the security guards who were lurking to take it for themselves although they promised to give it back at the end of it.
I recorded multiple concerts that I still have in cassettes (you needed 2 tapes and a couple of batteries). I made copies and trade (firstly hand and then postal delivery)
When internet arrived I digitalized my copies and my trading became international.
I would send the copy in a CD and wait for the other part to receive it, risking getting scammed (which never happened).
That way I was able to get a lot of bootlegs of the Stones (like Many People in IORR)
Years later I happened to download my own copies uploaded by someone else with worse sound quality (no stones stuff).
I got angry at first but then I felt pride that people were listening to the recordings I did in Madrid years back.
If someone remasters a recording and you don’t like it, you delete it
If you don’t want your recording remastered, you say so… although it is impossible to prevent that
I believe that a taper has to know that and therefore has 3 paths to choose: you keep it for you, you sell it or share it.
On this site there are tapers, downloaders, uploaders that I´m sure have the same love for music as I have.
I don’t understand this fight which has made many very good people leave the site.
I have always thought of the internet as a free place, now getting less free....
....but fighting over music does not sound very well.
Rafa
Elmuseo
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-05 19:47 by elmuseo.
I was given a walkman Aiwa (Japan) which recorded with an exceptional accuracy for those days.
It was difficult to get it in the concert as you could have it taken by the security guards who were lurking to take it for themselves although they promised to give it back at the end of it.
I recorded multiple concerts that I still have in cassettes (you needed 2 tapes and a couple of batteries). I made copies and trade (firstly hand and then postal delivery)
When internet arrived I digitalized my copies and my trading became international.
I would send the copy in a CD and wait for the other part to receive it, risking getting scammed (which never happened).
That way I was able to get a lot of bootlegs of the Stones (like Many People in IORR)
Years later I happened to download my own copies uploaded by someone else with worse sound quality (no stones stuff).
I got angry at first but then I felt pride that people were listening to the recordings I did in Madrid years back.
If someone remasters a recording and you don’t like it, you delete it
If you don’t want your recording remastered, you say so… although it is impossible to prevent that
I believe that a taper has to know that and therefore has 3 paths to choose: you keep it for you, you sell it or share it.
On this site there are tapers, downloaders, uploaders that I´m sure have the same love for music as I have.
I don’t understand this fight which has made many very good people leave the site.
I have always thought of the internet as a free place, now getting less free....
....but fighting over music does not sound very well.
Rafa
Elmuseo
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-05 19:47 by elmuseo.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
blakeeik
()
Date: August 5, 2019 22:04
Hey daspy,
You have shared some great recordings here in the past. All of us welcome every single one. Of course you were never under any obligation to do so. I would like to think you did so to contribute to the happiness of a community that is in need of some quality recordings. True, good recordings are coming harder to come by with so many common recordings becoming available. There are many, MANY OF US that want good quality stuff and there are few to find. It is up to those like you who can contribute with quality - no one else - so if you can ever realize that it’s the majority of the community that benefits when you share, maybe you may reconsider at some point.
Thank you for your shares, past, present and future.
You have shared some great recordings here in the past. All of us welcome every single one. Of course you were never under any obligation to do so. I would like to think you did so to contribute to the happiness of a community that is in need of some quality recordings. True, good recordings are coming harder to come by with so many common recordings becoming available. There are many, MANY OF US that want good quality stuff and there are few to find. It is up to those like you who can contribute with quality - no one else - so if you can ever realize that it’s the majority of the community that benefits when you share, maybe you may reconsider at some point.
Thank you for your shares, past, present and future.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
eibert
()
Date: August 5, 2019 23:19
Quote
blakeeik
Hey daspy,
You have shared some great recordings here in the past. All of us welcome every single one. Of course you were never under any obligation to do so. I would like to think you did so to contribute to the happiness of a community that is in need of some quality recordings. True, good recordings are coming harder to come by with so many common recordings becoming available. There are many, MANY OF US that want good quality stuff and there are few to find. It is up to those like you who can contribute with quality - no one else - so if you can ever realize that it’s the majority of the community that benefits when you share, maybe you may reconsider at some point.
Thank you for your shares, past, present and future.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
glimmertwin1
()
Date: August 6, 2019 00:11
Really don't understand this mess. 
If a taper dosn't want his recording messed with he shouldn't share it. I personally don't like most remasters.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 00:16 by glimmertwin1.
If a taper dosn't want his recording messed with he shouldn't share it. I personally don't like most remasters.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-06 00:16 by glimmertwin1.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
U2Stonesfan
()
Date: August 6, 2019 02:44
There are very few remasters worth a crap. My opinion is keep your remasters to yourself. Especially since anyone can download an app and do it themselves nowadays.
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
blakeeik
()
Date: August 6, 2019 04:05
Quote
coowouters
I have vented my anger and frustration about Ed's post to Jaap.
So for me the topic is closed.
BTW, was there really someone who really thought that I had 19 pro shot video tapes given to me by a video engineer?
Anyway, I will not come back to IORR anymore, nor will I reply to private mails asking for uploads, conversions from filefactory to WT or dropbox and the like (except of course for a few good friends)
Bye all and keep enjoying the music that's offered here!
Chris, take a break, but then come back. You’ve been an important part of the community. Please?
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: August 6, 2019 11:38
[/quote]Quote
coowouters
I have vented my anger and frustration about Ed's post to Jaap.
So for me the topic is closed.
Anyway, I will not come back to IORR anymore
Bye all and keep enjoying the music that's offered here!
Give us a farewell gift = share a few unreleased "Art Collins" tracks!
Re: Being the messenger boy
Posted by:
dennycranium
()
Date: August 7, 2019 19:47
I appreciate all of the shares made by the tapers.
I know how hard it is to get the gear in to the venue.
It's hard work and you can't enjoy the show as much when youre focusing on getting a good recording.
I know how hard it is to get the gear in to the venue.
It's hard work and you can't enjoy the show as much when youre focusing on getting a good recording.
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