I have a request.

My english is not very good, and I can make mistakes, so forgive me.

There is a problem here on IORR.

Some people are uploading compilations of outtakes, and some of these outtakes are fakes.

RS Kinno is the one.

As exemple, he uploaded "Some Girls" tracks some weeks ago, nothing was new, but what seemed to be new outtakes were just fakes.

He did the same in the past with "Undercover" tracks wich were "looped tracks".

As exemple, his recent upload of a 1'28 instrumental version of "Hang Fire" is just the short 0'30 snippet looped/repeated 3 times.

I don't know why he do these things.


As a collector, I try to know what is true and what is false.


Another exemple, in the "Emotional Rescue" uploads, you are supposed to get 3 versions including "Let's Go Steady" with 3 guitars. But this is 3 times the same mix with two guitars.

The 3 guitars mix/version was released on EVSD 203-206, and I think the bootlegger himself never noticed the difference. I did. And asked other collecters their opinion. They agreed.

So please, YOU, IORR downloaders, download, listen carefully and then say "thanks" if there is something new.

But listen before saying "thanks".

Sorry if I am too abrupt.

3 guitars mix/version from EVSD 203-206

[we.tl]


Put on your headphones.

Please note the female back-up vocals are on the left channel.

Centered on the classic version.

Kinno ???????????????????????????????????????????

Quote
LiveAtHidepark
I have a request.

My english is not very good, and I can make mistakes, so forgive me.

There is a problem here on IORR.

Some people are uploading compilations of outtakes, and some of these outtakes are fakes.

RS Kinno is the one.

As exemple, he uploaded "Some Girls" tracks some weeks ago, nothing was new, but what seemed to be new outtakes were just fakes.

He did the same in the past with "Undercover" tracks wich were "looped tracks".

As exemple, his recent upload of a 1'28 instrumental version of "Hang Fire" is just the short 0'30 snippet looped/repeated 3 times.

I don't know why he do these things.


As a collector, I try to know what is true and what is false.


Another exemple, in the "Emotional Rescue" uploads, you are supposed to get 3 versions including "Let's Go Steady" with 3 guitars. But this is 3 times the same mix with two guitars.

The 3 guitars mix/version was released on EVSD 203-206, and I think the bootlegger himself never noticed the difference. I did. And asked other collecters their opinion. They agreed.

So please, YOU, IORR downloaders, download, listen carefully and then say "thanks" if there is something new.

But listen before saying "thanks".

Sorry if I am too abrupt.

Your English is very good. Thank you

Thank you for pointing this out. I also tried to make a collection like rskinno. It's very time consuming, and sometimes it's hard to decide, if an outtake you found is really new, or is in one or another way "faked" (looped, differently mixed, different lineage, ...) and then, you decide to do in in your collection an decide later.

Even I have the same problems in creating collections of outakes, it's fun to do ...but really hard. Thanks for pointing out this thing.


I think that "live.." is right, otherwise there is a lot of confusion at the expense of originality


I think that the tracks of the outtakes must always be the original CDs where they appear. I keep in the folders and sometimes I try to compare the new things that come out. Now I'm having a hard time finding the two instrumental versions of "Heartbeat" 1982, those should be new things.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-20 10:13 by hulloder.

thank you very much for this thread!

my 1st faked outtake lp was "the guy never dies" (in 1985) but when listening to foxes in the boxes (1,5 years ago) i had the feeling that to some traks somebody added a guitar using home recording equipment

i think that everybody can modify recordings at home. but when sharing such recordings this should be declared. i liked the techno versions of gimme shelter and some 2b2 tracks. everybody can hear that those tracks are not tracks by the rs. but sharing sound-a-like-outtakes without declaration is a bit like fooling the community.

Has anyone ever heard those Satanic outfakes fro the vinyl eps from years ago?

Quote
LiveAtHidepark


The 3 guitars mix/version was released on EVSD 203-206, and I think the bootlegger himself never noticed the difference. I did. And asked other collecters their opinion. They agreed.

therefore also Nico Zentgraf is wrong to indicate:

Let's Go Steady Again II (James W. Alexander) -Kristi Kimsey on the backing vocals, alternate mix of I with three guitars




???????

Quote
hulloder


therefore also Nico Zentgraf is wrong to indicate:

Let's Go Steady Again II (James W. Alexander) -Kristi Kimsey on the backing vocals, alternate mix of I with three guitars

Why ?

i want to know.

my is a question Live...

Exist or no "Let's Go Steady Again II" with three guitars???

OK, I give up.

I try to explain myself better-

You told that "let's go steady again" with 3 guitar is a fake and i believe you

on the Nico website a let's go steady again with 3 guitar is indicated

now for you, is the indication on the site wrong or there is a version with three guitars but has not yet heard?

I ask you because you are an expert with the outtakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-20 20:50 by hulloder.

Quote
DoctorStone
thank you very much for this thread!

my 1st faked outtake lp was "the guy never dies" (in 1985) but when listening to foxes in the boxes (1,5 years ago) i had the feeling that to some traks somebody added a guitar using home recording equipment

i think that everybody can modify recordings at home. but when sharing such recordings this should be declared. i liked the techno versions of gimme shelter and some 2b2 tracks. everybody can hear that those tracks are not tracks by the rs. but sharing sound-a-like-outtakes without declaration is a bit like fooling the community.

I have to chime in here and respond in no uncertain terms that NOTHING on Foxes in the Boxes was altered or augmented in any way, shape or form. I realize you are just expressing a personal opinion without knowledge of the provenance, but the idea that guitar was added is preposterous in this case. What you hear on Foxes is exactly what was on Art Collins' personal cassettes from the band in the late '70s and early '80s.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-21 01:27 by JEMS.

Quote
hulloder
I try to explain myself better-

You told that "let's go steady again" with 3 guitar is a fake and i believe you

on the Nico website a let's go steady again with 3 guitar is indicated

now for you, is the indication on the site wrong or there is a version with three guitars but has not yet heard?

I NEVER said the 3 guitars version is a fake - What I said was : in the "Emotional Rescue" uploads (RSkinno), you are supposed to get 3 versions including "Let's Go Steady" with 3 guitars. But this is 3 times the same mix with two guitars

I thought it was clear.

And of course the 3 guitars version exists, see above my second message in this discussion.

Quote
hulloder


I ask you because you are an expert with the outtakes.

Nico Zentgraf, Felix Aeppli, Dieter Hoffman are experts. No me. I'm just trying to know what I have. Sometimes I make mistakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-20 22:55 by LiveAtHidepark.

Ok thanks for 3 guitars mix/version from EVSD 203-206.

Quote
JEMS


I have to chime in here and respond in no uncertain terms that NOTHING on Foxes in the Boxes was altered or augmented in any way, shape or form. I realize you are just expressing a personal opinion without knowledge of the provenance, but the idea that guitar was added is preposterous in this case. What you hear on Foxes is exactly what was on Art Collins personal cassettes from the band in the late '70s and early '80s.

JEMS, I don't know how to explain how I was fascinated by your Foxes releases. It was pure magic.

All Rolling Stones collectors owe you a great respect. Thanks.

Quote
LiveAtHidepark

JEMS, I don't know how to explain how I was fascinated by your Foxes releases. It was pure magic.

All Rolling Stones collectors owe you a great respect. Thanks.

I appreciate those kind words. We were lucky to come into possession of the tapes. With help from Neko, were we able to compile the series and bring you the true rarities in the collection.


Vol One and Two were originally posted to DIME. Vol Three was exclusive to The Traders Den because the material was more alternate mixes than alternate takes, which we were not sure would pass muster at DIME. But recently someone posted Vol. Three on DIME so all three are available there.








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-21 01:40 by JEMS.

Hey JEMS ,
do you have the full version of Can't Find Love V ?
really love to hear it ,this versions great!
Suzie

Quote
gomper076
Has anyone ever heard those Satanic outfakes fro the vinyl eps from years ago?

Shades of Orange and Loving Sacred Loving....two supposed Satanic outtakes are in fact tracks by the band The End which I believe were produced by Bill. Included on many Stones boot release over the years.

do you remember the fake outtake f "Wild Horses" made by two guys?



it still happens to me to see it, sometimes it pops out.

On

The Rolling Stones - Undercover Of The Night (Session 1982-1983) by Kinno

appear many song much long, are faked outtakes??????????

for example "Forty", on Bootleg last 4:32 on rsKinno Comiplation last 8:33 and guitar is on right ....






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-22 16:20 by hulloder.

Quote
hulloder
On

The Rolling Stones - Undercover Of The Night (Session 1982-1983) by Kinno

appear many song much long, are faked outtakes??????????

for example "Forty", on Bootleg last 4:32 on rsKinno Comiplation last 8:33 and guitar is on right ....

That's what LiveAtHidepark rightly bemoaned in the very first post of this thread.

So is it confirmed? I said I can not understand what it takes to do such a thing. What is its use?

Quote
hulloder
So is it confirmed?

Download tracks, buy records, then use your ears and headphones, have sheets of paper and a pen, also Stabilo pastels are very usefull. Start your own database. Everytime your think you're listening to something new, everytime you think there is a problem, everytime you think something is not clear, take some notes. It's not easy, it takes a lot of time. Sometimes ten minutes, sometimes years. And many times, your opinion about a particular recording will change with the passing time.

If in doubt, you can ask opinions of other people, this is very helpfull, but do it after your own research, you can't go on like you did during the last weeks, thinking everybody is at your disposition all night and day.

You have to work by yourself.

Fortunately, there are kind users who instead like to help others, as I do if I can. Just do not answer instead of giving unnecessary and unsolicited lessons.

Quote
hulloder
Fortunately, there are kind users who instead like to help others, as I do if I can. Just do not answer instead of giving unnecessary and unsolicited lessons.

Read carefully, it was an advice, not a lesson.

I ask you.

Listen to RSkinno "ER/TY sessions"
CD5 track 16 - Do you think this 16'44 version of Dance is genuine ?
CD3 track 15 - Do you think this 6'37 version of It's Cold Down There is genuine ?
CD3 track 16 - Do you think this 4'29 version of Sheep Dip Blues is genuine ?



I started this thread because of these kind of fakes. Bad idea, I recognize.

Quote
hulloder
On

The Rolling Stones - Undercover Of The Night (Session 1982-1983) by Kinno

appear many song much long, are faked outtakes??????????

for example "Forty", on Bootleg last 4:32 on rsKinno Comiplation last 8:33 and guitar is on right ....

circulate as longer looped FAKED version : In Your Hand (5'40)(a part of the 4'41 recording is repeated twice. The new intro is taken from 2'08 of the original 4'41 recording.)
circulate as longer looped FAKED versions : Chistine (7'09) - Forty (8'33) - Keep It Cool (27'05)

Quote
LiveAtHidepark

I ask you.

Listen to RSkinno "ER/TY sessions"
CD5 track 16 - Do you think this 16'44 version of Dance is genuine ?
CD3 track 15 - Do you think this 6'37 version of It's Cold Down There is genuine ?
CD3 track 16 - Do you think this 4'29 version of Sheep Dip Blues is genuine ?

No i think not genuine.


thanks for the clarification LiveAtHidepark





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-23 12:54 by hulloder.

Thanks LiveAtHidepark (OG!!) for pointing out the questionable nature of some circulating outtakes and taking your time to explain!

Quote
makim
Thanks LiveAtHidepark (OG!!) for pointing out the questionable nature of some circulating outtakes and taking your time to explain!

Yes, LP "Live At Hidepark" have (OG504A J // OG504B J) matrix.

Congratulations,