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Thanks ... and yes I know that Flac 24 bits to flac 16 bits there will be a loss but I just wanted to know if i converted my Flac 24 bits to WAV and than back to Flac 16 bits if it would end up being lossy / lower quality than a audio CD of 16 bits.
QUOTE " lossless:
no information is lost " END QUOTE
- OBVIOUSLY !! There really isn't a need to post this . This is why you need to know what the true source file is or was to determine if another audio file originating from that source audio file has had any loss or not compared to its original source file .
An example of a digital audio file encoded with a lossless compression scheme STILL being lossy would be ..........someone making lossy AAC or MP3 files from a CD copy of Bridges to Babylon and then using those lossy AAC or MP3 files to create FLAC or new WAV files.
Such FLAC files or new WAV audio files in that above example would not be lossless .
You only would get truly lossless files from the source by not degrading the source at any point in the lineage as was done in the above example in the AAC or MP3 conversion before then turning those files into FLAC or ne WAV files. Once that step happens,anything resulting will always be lossy.
**** To avoid any loss (in my example),the tracks would have to be ripped from the Bridges to Babylon CD directly to WAV 16-bits / 44.1 kHz or the FLAC equivalent.
QUOTE " a wave file recorded at 8 bit and 22'000kHz is lossless " END QUOTE
- That depends. IF you are making that recording yourself (i.e. a voice recording) yes,BUT,if you take a 16-bit / 44.1 kHz WAV file from an audio CD and then degrade it to an 8-bit and 22'000 kHz WAV file,without any doubt there will have been loss .... lost data .
QUOTE " the term lossless has nothing to do with cd-quality at all " END QUOTE
- The term lossless is an adjective which is a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it.
It is actually frequently used here to describe digital audio tracks unadulterated and not degraded from their original source file which,in the vast majority of cases to date is = equal to CD quality of 16-bits / 44.1 kHz . This is not always the case,but it is the case probably at least 90 % of the time as most digital tracks posted here trace back to a CD or CD's .
It should not be lower quality than an audio CD of 16-bits / 44.1 kHz providing that the source file did not originate from anything below 16-bits / 44.1 kHz unless there are any other factors which come into play that I am not aware of .
Software which does a sub-standard job of encoding the files could be a possibility. I am not sure on that. I don't think that it is likely,especially with the 2 software programs that I mentioned. In other words,I don't think that there will be any difference if the source file is at least CD quality and the lineage remained at or above CD quality.
Even if there is any small difference ( for example,resulting from a conversion from 24-bits to 16-bits ) ,which I do not think that there will or would be anyway,I doubt that it would be audible to the human ear in such a case.
By the way,I forgot to mention FLAC FrontEnd software which can be used to decode and,I believe,to encode FLAC files. It can be used to test FLAC files for errors as well.
Thanks for the info. I know my source of Flac files are good, have checked them with TLH and Flac Frontened and both show no erros.
I also have tried the pprogram R8brain but because I just want to convert the bits 24 to 16 and not the sample rate of 44.1 the program tells me input and output sample rate cannot be the same.
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Question About Audio 24 Bits
Posted by:
THE DON
()
Date: January 14, 2015 04:22
Can anyone advice for question below:
If i have files of in Flac with 24 bits and 44.1 sampling rate what free software can downgrade it to Flac 16 bits?
Or if I convert my Flac file of 24 bits to WAV which becomes 16 bits is that ok without losing any quality and keeping it losslees?
Thanks in advance.
If i have files of in Flac with 24 bits and 44.1 sampling rate what free software can downgrade it to Flac 16 bits?
Or if I convert my Flac file of 24 bits to WAV which becomes 16 bits is that ok without losing any quality and keeping it losslees?
Thanks in advance.
Re: Question About Audio 24 Bits
Posted by:
Winning Ugly VXII
()
Date: January 14, 2015 08:02
Question # 1 Answer ........... " Any Audio Converter " for Windows ( choice 1 ) or " Switch Sound File Converter " also for Windows ( choice 2 ) .......... You may have to go to WAV 16 bits and then back to FLAC 16 bits , not sure .
Question # 2 Answer .......... WAV 16 bits = FLAC 16 bits , provided that it is the same source and original file. FLAC is a lossless compression scheme ( like a compressed zip folder ) and WAV is raw,uncompressed PCM audio as long as it did not originate from a lossy source.
As far as will your track be lossless or not,it depends on the original source. Generally,CD quality which is 16 bits / 44.1 kHz , is considered to be lossless. However,if you have a high resolution 24-bit file ( FLAC in this case ) which originated from a source above 16 bits / 44.1 kHz ( such as a 24-bit source ) and then you knock it down to CD quality,then of course there would be lost digital information there in that scenario.
Question # 2 Answer .......... WAV 16 bits = FLAC 16 bits , provided that it is the same source and original file. FLAC is a lossless compression scheme ( like a compressed zip folder ) and WAV is raw,uncompressed PCM audio as long as it did not originate from a lossy source.
As far as will your track be lossless or not,it depends on the original source. Generally,CD quality which is 16 bits / 44.1 kHz , is considered to be lossless. However,if you have a high resolution 24-bit file ( FLAC in this case ) which originated from a source above 16 bits / 44.1 kHz ( such as a 24-bit source ) and then you knock it down to CD quality,then of course there would be lost digital information there in that scenario.
Re: Question About Audio 24 Bits
Posted by:
THE DON
()
Date: January 14, 2015 08:37
Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Question # 1 Answer ........... " Any Audio Converter " for Windows ( choice 1 ) or " Switch Sound File Converter " also for Windows ( choice 2 ) .......... You may have to go to WAV 16 bits and then back to FLAC 16 bits , not sure .
Question # 2 Answer .......... WAV 16 bits = FLAC 16 bits , provided that it is the same source and original file. FLAC is a lossless compression scheme ( like a compressed zip folder ) and WAV is raw,uncompressed PCM audio as long as it did not originate from a lossy source.
As far as will your track be lossless or not,it depends on the original source. Generally,CD quality which is 16 bits / 44.1 kHz , is considered to be lossless. However,if you have a high resolution 24-bit file ( FLAC in this case ) which originated from a source above 16 bits / 44.1 kHz ( such as a 24-bit source ) and then you knock it down to CD quality,then of course there would be lost digital information there in that scenario.
Thanks ... and yes I know that Flac 24 bits to flac 16 bits there will be a loss but I just wanted to know if i converted my Flac 24 bits to WAV and than back to Flac 16 bits if it would end up being lossy / lower quality than a audio CD of 16 bits.
Re: Question About Audio 24 Bits
Posted by:
ThinAir
()
Date: January 14, 2015 09:24
lossless:
no information is lost: a wave file recorded at 8bit and 22'000kHz is lossless.
the term lossless has nothing to do with cd-quality at all.
(lossy formats (mp3, mp4) make use of psychoacoustic knowledge and leave away information that can’t be heard by the human ear. the information left away in the encoding process is lost forever.)
downsampling / reducing bit rate: downsampling from 96’000kHz to 44’100 kHz or reducing the bit rate from 24bit to 16bit will result in the loss of information.
Good freeware to do that: r8brain (https://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/)
If there is any use to higher bitrates than 16bit and higher sampling frequencies than 44’100kHz is a different topic….
no information is lost: a wave file recorded at 8bit and 22'000kHz is lossless.
the term lossless has nothing to do with cd-quality at all.
(lossy formats (mp3, mp4) make use of psychoacoustic knowledge and leave away information that can’t be heard by the human ear. the information left away in the encoding process is lost forever.)
downsampling / reducing bit rate: downsampling from 96’000kHz to 44’100 kHz or reducing the bit rate from 24bit to 16bit will result in the loss of information.
Good freeware to do that: r8brain (https://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/)
If there is any use to higher bitrates than 16bit and higher sampling frequencies than 44’100kHz is a different topic….
Re: Question About Audio 24 Bits
Posted by:
Winning Ugly VXII
()
Date: January 14, 2015 19:04
Quote
ThinAir
lossless:
no information is lost: a wave file recorded at 8bit and 22'000kHz is lossless.
the term lossless has nothing to do with cd-quality at all.
(lossy formats (mp3, mp4) make use of psychoacoustic knowledge and leave away information that can’t be heard by the human ear. the information left away in the encoding process is lost forever.)
downsampling / reducing bit rate: downsampling from 96’000kHz to 44’100 kHz or reducing the bit rate from 24bit to 16bit will result in the loss of information.
Good freeware to do that: r8brain (https://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/)
If there is any use to higher bitrates than 16bit and higher sampling frequencies than 44’100kHz is a different topic….
QUOTE " lossless:
no information is lost " END QUOTE
- OBVIOUSLY !! There really isn't a need to post this . This is why you need to know what the true source file is or was to determine if another audio file originating from that source audio file has had any loss or not compared to its original source file .
An example of a digital audio file encoded with a lossless compression scheme STILL being lossy would be ..........someone making lossy AAC or MP3 files from a CD copy of Bridges to Babylon and then using those lossy AAC or MP3 files to create FLAC or new WAV files.
Such FLAC files or new WAV audio files in that above example would not be lossless .
You only would get truly lossless files from the source by not degrading the source at any point in the lineage as was done in the above example in the AAC or MP3 conversion before then turning those files into FLAC or ne WAV files. Once that step happens,anything resulting will always be lossy.
**** To avoid any loss (in my example),the tracks would have to be ripped from the Bridges to Babylon CD directly to WAV 16-bits / 44.1 kHz or the FLAC equivalent.
QUOTE " a wave file recorded at 8 bit and 22'000kHz is lossless " END QUOTE
- That depends. IF you are making that recording yourself (i.e. a voice recording) yes,BUT,if you take a 16-bit / 44.1 kHz WAV file from an audio CD and then degrade it to an 8-bit and 22'000 kHz WAV file,without any doubt there will have been loss .... lost data .
QUOTE " the term lossless has nothing to do with cd-quality at all " END QUOTE
- The term lossless is an adjective which is a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it.
It is actually frequently used here to describe digital audio tracks unadulterated and not degraded from their original source file which,in the vast majority of cases to date is = equal to CD quality of 16-bits / 44.1 kHz . This is not always the case,but it is the case probably at least 90 % of the time as most digital tracks posted here trace back to a CD or CD's .
Re: Question About Audio 24 Bits
Posted by:
Winning Ugly VXII
()
Date: January 14, 2015 19:38
Quote
THE DONQuote
Winning Ugly VXII
Question # 1 Answer ........... " Any Audio Converter " for Windows ( choice 1 ) or " Switch Sound File Converter " also for Windows ( choice 2 ) .......... You may have to go to WAV 16 bits and then back to FLAC 16 bits , not sure .
Question # 2 Answer .......... WAV 16 bits = FLAC 16 bits , provided that it is the same source and original file. FLAC is a lossless compression scheme ( like a compressed zip folder ) and WAV is raw,uncompressed PCM audio as long as it did not originate from a lossy source.
As far as will your track be lossless or not,it depends on the original source. Generally,CD quality which is 16 bits / 44.1 kHz , is considered to be lossless. However,if you have a high resolution 24-bit file ( FLAC in this case ) which originated from a source above 16 bits / 44.1 kHz ( such as a 24-bit source ) and then you knock it down to CD quality,then of course there would be lost digital information there in that scenario.
Thanks ... and yes I know that Flac 24 bits to flac 16 bits there will be a loss but I just wanted to know if i converted my Flac 24 bits to WAV and than back to Flac 16 bits if it would end up being lossy / lower quality than a audio CD of 16 bits.
It should not be lower quality than an audio CD of 16-bits / 44.1 kHz providing that the source file did not originate from anything below 16-bits / 44.1 kHz unless there are any other factors which come into play that I am not aware of .
Software which does a sub-standard job of encoding the files could be a possibility. I am not sure on that. I don't think that it is likely,especially with the 2 software programs that I mentioned. In other words,I don't think that there will be any difference if the source file is at least CD quality and the lineage remained at or above CD quality.
Even if there is any small difference ( for example,resulting from a conversion from 24-bits to 16-bits ) ,which I do not think that there will or would be anyway,I doubt that it would be audible to the human ear in such a case.
By the way,I forgot to mention FLAC FrontEnd software which can be used to decode and,I believe,to encode FLAC files. It can be used to test FLAC files for errors as well.
Re: Question About Audio 24 Bits
Posted by:
THE DON
()
Date: January 14, 2015 21:25
Quote
ThinAir
lossless:
no information is lost: a wave file recorded at 8bit and 22'000kHz is lossless.
the term lossless has nothing to do with cd-quality at all.
(lossy formats (mp3, mp4) make use of psychoacoustic knowledge and leave away information that can’t be heard by the human ear. the information left away in the encoding process is lost forever.)
downsampling / reducing bit rate: downsampling from 96’000kHz to 44’100 kHz or reducing the bit rate from 24bit to 16bit will result in the loss of information.
Good freeware to do that: r8brain (https://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/)
If there is any use to higher bitrates than 16bit and higher sampling frequencies than 44’100kHz is a different topic….
Thanks for the info. I know my source of Flac files are good, have checked them with TLH and Flac Frontened and both show no erros.
I also have tried the pprogram R8brain but because I just want to convert the bits 24 to 16 and not the sample rate of 44.1 the program tells me input and output sample rate cannot be the same.
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