Whoa! nice work on Miss You - this will take some time to digest...

exilestones,

this work is exceptional.

Bravo exilestones!!!! Have you worked on other material?

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elmod

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blakeeik

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elmod
+ jap. short version of Paint it Black (taken from 7"vinyl).

Elmond, you are correct, but which 7" short version of PIB are you talking about?

sorry, it was my fault (i talked about 7" Japan London TOP 1053)

This is an entirely different mix of Paint It Black from Japan 1966 than found anywhere else. This just recently circulated as a bonus track to a mono 1st pressing of the UK Aftermath.

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stonesman87
I support blakeeik's full compilation as originally put together. It's an attempt to put together a complete bunch of tracks, the basis of which he's gone to great lengths to set out and explain. It's not an attempt to put together a bunch of stuff that "doesn't appear anywhere else", and on that basis there's no place for it to be reduced just because of any other compilation. I've been very interested in it for what it is, and I put it that anybody else interested in this big effort should take it as it is. It's up to individuals to reorganize or change the contents to suit their own purposes.

In any event, the release of the recent box set (i.e. the 1971-2006 CD singles box set) doesn't change one bit the fact that blakeeik's list, as his title for it says, is an attempt to list all official non-album tracks. It's a mistake to think that the 71-06 release could reduce blakeeik's list, because what it contains is material that's IN blakeeik's list (i.e. non-album tracks), as well as album tracks. If anything at all, the 71-06 release might have provided additional material to ADD to blakeeik's list, but so far nothing new appears to have come out of it. A suggestion that the 71-06 release might provide a basis for reduction of blakeeik's list just doesn't make sense. QED

For me this list of 'Rarities' is a great resource. It's a library of odd non-album tracks. It's great! I would not include the those remixes of Sympathy. That isn't the Stones.

Miss You - Thanks for the compliments. Like I said, get to really know Miss You #2 which is the key to everything about the various Miss You releases. I wanted to put together a maxi single of Miss Yous and include my 'Frankenstein Mix' which would put everything from every Miss You in to one song. I'm no sound guy and I actually did the mix but there are obvious splices because I can't match the sound from the many releases (and un-releases).

What I figured-out was that the Stones probably did all that could be done with Miss You and putting it all together in a 'Frankenstein Mix' didn't work besides my unprofessional editing job.

I found that adding in the guitars over the verses of Miss You worked. They can be stripped from Miss You #2. They are well separated. The fact that Bob Cleamountian used the exact same solos by themselves later without the vocals in the 8.35 Miss You didn't matter to me.

When the guitars are added (stripped out of the Disco Mix but can be faintly heard in the background) the whole Disco thing is gone. Less is more in a Disco mix.

The difference in speed in the LP versions made a big difference. Adding the up-beat, almost bubbly sax solo in to the DS 2002/2006 (Don't Stop rock mix) makes the song not so hard edged. The awesome lead guitar work kicked ass! I love the sax solo but in makes the long versions less powerful.

I found the more guitar work in the mix, the less power the song had. There was good reason for Bob to strip it out of the long 8.35 Miss You. With the guitar stripped and a lot of the keyboards stripped or mixed way down the driving rhythm of the drums and bass made the song more powerful and more of a driving force. The keyboards in the Disco mix were sort of used as licks are used or drum rolls (whatever it's called when the drummer does a roll around the drum kit at the end of a verse or line in the song or introduces the chorus) which helps the transition in to a chorus or change in a song.

There a lot of parts that are more obvious in Miss You #2 that get burried in all of the other versions. Miss You #2 is a pleasure all in itself.

My friend suggest that I add all of the lead from Miss You #2 in to the DS (Don't Stop 2002 8.35) because there is a lot of great lead that wasn't used. I added it all in but found that it made the song less powerful. Then I only added some lead but that had the same less powerful result. Bob Clearmountain used all of the most powerful lead guitar work. The man is very gifted! Once you know Miss You #2 from beginning to end, it's easy to see how gifted Bob is and how great he made Miss You.

The LP version I mention that I liked (Some Girls TOCP-66456 (2005)) somebody did an awesome job on bringing in more guitar work (or mixing up more guitar work) so it can be heard I think better than any other version. They did an awesome job on this mix! There are other LP mixes that some other parts can be heard better but 'hands down' Some Girls TOCP-66456 (2005) is the best im my opinion and I've download and ripped every LP version of Miss You know to man!

I've also collected every 8-Track Miss You (Miss You IV taken from Miss You #2) and every Disco 1978 vinyl rip I could find. There's info in the We Transfer History link which directs you to the very best sources.

I don't think any version of Miss You official released on CD is the 1978 vinyl mix exactly. Somebody always tinkered with the sound, bass or whatever. None are exactly true to the vinyl. Only the vinyl rip is the real Disco Mix from 1978 (see history in previous post - get it while you can). I do think that Flashpoint CBS 4669182 1990 was closest. Maybe CD technology wasn't great enough by 1990 (compare the first Steel Wheels to all of the later version to see what I mean about the sound technology of 1989-1990 - CD sound wasn't there yet).

I was just 'spinning my wheels' as they say and going nowhere by mixing all of the Miss Yous. The Stones did all of the work. Chris Kimsey's 8-Track is brilliant for a longer LP version. 8-Tracks which I use to hate, (especially when it would change tracks in the middle of Midnight Rambler on YaYas) have come to be really cool with rarities from many bands (listen to Pink Floyd's Pigs on the Wing 8-T - a great one) but luckily for us there were 8-Track Tapes in 1978 or we may have never have gotten the 8-Track Miss You!

Chris Kimsey mad a great Miss You on the 8-Track which is a rare track only released on cheap 8-Track tape. The mast of Miss You IV (8-T) must be around somewhere (not complaining about the rarities version). Chris made not only a long Miss You but he made the LP a little more hard with more lead guitar. It's the ultimate LP version!

So adding lead over the Disco version from the well separated Miss You #2 works in spots but does take away where there too much as far as the drive goes.

After mixing and splicing and listening to Miss You over and over and over for hours at a time on long trips in the car, etc... I never grew tired of the song but only got more respect for it's greatness and all of it's incarnations.

Maybe next month when I have time or maybe in a few years I'll go back to the mixing board and redo Miss You again. It gets easier every time because I know the song very well - every nuance of every version!

You are fortunate to have my notes! It may be fun for you to listen to the background voices n Miss You and see they come exactly from Miss You #2. Chris and Bob could filter out those voices since the Stones recorded Miss You Live in the studio and different parts bled over in to another musician's track. I thought it sounded cool at the time as if it was some new effect. Then when I realized they could remove it all I thought how could they release this song with these imperfections but I'm very glad they did! It was easier to match the different Miss Yous with the Miss You #2 vocals in the background of the the released versions ("There must be a hole in the sound" - ha-ha!).

I thnk a cool project to do would be to make an edited version of Miss You #2. Then splice in parts of the Rarities Miss You such as the guitar-harp solo before the 7 minute mark, some chorus stuff and a few other parts. Or a similar idea which may work better would be to make the extended Miss You IV (8-T) by adding in a lot of lead from Miss You #2 and the Rarities solos before the 7 minute mark and use all the versus. The problem is the ending is anti-climatic. Bob Clearmountain had the right idea with ripping a verse out of the middle of the song and using it for a strong ending. This would be my 3rd Miss You splice job (dozens of tries) but it would work because the 8-T, Miss You #2, Rarites and the 8-T are the same with different overdubs and Mixes. All of the 8.35 version are a whole 'different animal.'

I had the though of putting together this Miss You and then asking if any sound people out there would redo it if they liked it. It would be fairly easy to do but a lot of work.

Get the best 8-Track Miss You IV. I have the two best I could find in my HISTORY here. Match the end of the 8-T to Miss You #2. Splice in the end of Miss You #2 (the sound would match pretty closely). Then edit the end of Miss You #2 and use only the strongest unreleased guitar solos (I hate to waste guitar solos but we have Miss You #2 and some of them work great on Miss You #2 but would weaken this "Extended Miss You #4." Add lead guitar from the beginning of Miss You #2 over the verses/vocals like the LP version has more. The ending is the problem. Do a fade out?

For artwork, I bought the sheet music of Miss You which is the same photo from the single but it doesn't have the printing over the picture and has a good font to use.

If anyone wants to do the project - GO FOR IT! I'd be glad to help any way I can.

ExileStones

Exile, once again, fantastic job!

There are 4 tracks in the History that are not working:

Glimmers Ms-Yoo 12 Vinyl rip (Are the 3 Special Disco Versions different sources and not different versions?)

Dems Collectors Edition Bonus Edition (Is this rip is from the Collector Edition CD source versus the Collectables CD from Flashpoint?)

Miss You 8-track SG Revisited (Thank you for also including the 8-track of Beast of Burden)

Miss you #2 Orig Demo Version (To clarify, these 3 #2's are different sources not versions?)

For someone who enjoys the most complete version of a song, Miss You #2 is one of the best. The 9:55 Whip is a killer too.

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nick
Exile, once again, fantastic job!

There are 4 tracks in the History that are not working:

Glimmers Ms-Yoo 12 Vinyl rip (Are the 3 Special Disco Versions different sources and not different versions?)

Dems Collectors Edition Bonus Edition (Is this rip is from the Collector Edition CD source versus the Collectables CD from Flashpoint?)

Miss You 8-track SG Revisited (Thank you for also including the 8-track of Beast of Burden)

Miss you #2 Orig Demo Version (To clarify, these 3 #2's are different sources not versions?)

For someone who enjoys the most complete version of a song, Miss You #2 is one of the best. The 9:55 Whip is a killer too.

Thank you. Which source do you think is good for the 9:55 Whip? It's cool to have the whole song and see what it was cut down to. Some Girls (the song) was another original long version that was cut.

I know Chris Kimsey cut down Some Girls from an interview with him.

I'm sorry all of the tracks didn't work. See HISTORY II for those songs in working order.

As far as the names of the songs go, I kept the original title as I found the song. I want to know not to download the same exact version/rip over and over again.

"Glimmers Ms-Yoo" and "Dems" are two different sources of the 1978 Miss You 12" vinyl. I like Dems the best and versions is good too. What do you think? Yes, there are three different sources of the 12" Miss You (DSKO) vinyl.

"Miss you #2 Orig Demo Version" is Miss You #2. If the original upload worked then you could tell by the length of the song.

Please let me know if there are any problems with HISTORY II.

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madhouse
Bravo exilestones!!!! Have you worked on other material?

Yes, I have worked on other material. For two years I've been collecting every version, ripped every CD, downloaded every Paint It Black I could find.

It started when I made a friend a CD of Stones songs. He didn't know the Stones well. He was 20 yrs. I put Paint It Black on the CD and played it in my car. The sound quality was shit! Then I was with a friend who is a huge Stones fan and he was playing random Stones songs from his laptop. A stereo version of Paint It Black came on and it was clear and sounded horrible. It had no power/force.

Then I decided to find the best versions of each song/album etc...

I had many notes and then my server crashed and I lost many notes. I had probably every issue of every Stones CD from the UK, Japan and USA listed.

Then i started downloading every thing. The same concerts over and over from different sources (we know how crazy I got with Miss You and there's a lot more to that one). I have more Oakland 1969's than you could imagine. I decided to put together a HDD (Hard Drive) I call Stones Land.

Putting so many 69 Oaklands and everything else on one HDD, man I need a big ass HDD, so I got a new server and a RAID system. That's when I decided to come up with a filing/cataloging system. Everybody uploads and titles an album/boot etc what ever they think. They title it what it means to them which is fine. I love everybody who uploads! THANK YOU. I love IORR people!

I need to know what I had and to put them in order. I want all of the OAKLAND 1969's to all be together. I start every fold with RS. Right there I know it's Rolling Stones. I then though it would be best to have everything fall together (line up) by year and then if it's official, outtakes, radio show (Interviews, etc not concerts because that would be live) or photos.

I figure I could make the Stones Land HDD as the ultimate collection of digital Rolling Stones. It would then be easy to compare every version of everything Stones and have video, photos, write-ups, magazine articles, etc...

Last week a friend emailed a group of friend here in the USA about the ending of We Love You. Apparently there are three different endings. I read "What is that at the end of We Love You on the Grr CD…. someone yells (sounds like Jagger) something?" It was very easy to go to The Singles Collection, Through the Past Darklys, etc.. and play the ends without finding one CD, etc... It only took a fe minutes to compare all of the ends of We Love You.

The live material I'd include a date code yymmdd and then the name of the album/boot label, catalog number, country and year. All of the Oakland 1969s are all in order, every concert from 1969 is in order by date.


First I have to get everything on my HDD. Then have help sorting it all out. Then delete the crap but keep a record of what is good and bad, so then I'll have a 'score card' of every release.

So the long answer to you question is that I study everything Stones. I hunt down everything Stones!

One trick I learned is when I come across Rolling Stones photos that I like or an article about someone who designed the Some Girls cover for example, I Google Rolling Stones and the name of the person. May times I find other photos from say the Sticky Fingers photo shoots or Satanic, etc.. I even found the Black and Blue cover with out the printing and Through the Past Darkly and a lot of Michael Cooper photos from Satanic Majesties.

One day I'll have it all together but there's always something new (where did White Widow label come from?). After it's all together (Stones Land HDD) I'll make it available to everyone. Just send me the money for a HDD or a HDD (Hard Drive) and I'll share everything with this awesome group. I'll put a lot n line too.

I've collected Miss You for many years! I've studied Miss You for many years. I researched each person, every story, every website, Googled, Binged, yahoo'd Images, web, etc... everything I could about Miss You Some Girls etc... I probably know more about Miss You than anybody. It's a pity I'm not rich and have to work for a living and have other responsibilities.

When Stones Land is ready for the initial release, by the end of this year I'll let you all know.

I hope everyone one day will adopt my cataloging filing system then we can all be on the same page.

I couldn't put my finger on what I studied. Some Stones I've studied more than others.

A few things I studied/researched a lot...hmmm... Atlantic City 1989, Satanic Majesties Request (on going - still downloading). I probably have every issue of Sticky Fingers on CD and whatever there was to download and pictures, etc... I intensely studied KBFH (King Biscuit) 1981 releases (lost all of my notes there too but I know it).

I've been studying Hot Rocks. Hot Rocks is most interesting since I never know which version of which song will show up there.

I've studied MFSL mixes as well as trying to figure out what do we have on all of these Stones releases because I'm on the quest to find the best Stones material.

I've found there' not just one of a song that's the best usually but a few best such as 2000 Light Years; 2002 DSD Remaster, MFSL and USA mono.

Paint It Black so far I like 40 Licks (haven't compared Grrr but I think Grrr is better than 40 Licks and 40 Licks had a great Satisfaction, Happy, Get Off My Cloud, etc..). 40 Licks PIB is long narrow stereo, Abkco 1986 remaster is my favorite. PIB is better in mono and the POCD releases has the best Abkco 1986 remasters. i like the ending of PIB from guitar hero. My friend thinks some made up the end and it wasn't what the Stones did originally. I think Abkco mast have given Guitar Hero people the original tapes since they had to have separate tracks for the game. I'd love to have the Guitar Hero ending on some version of PIB. I love the 1966 Japan single mix which is just a few posts above this on on this thread. I call it the Kings Road version. I haven't really compared the PIBs since I'm still in the download stage.

With hot Rocks we get different versions of Heart of Stone, Time is on My Side, etc...

My favorite You Can't Always (studio) is MFSL version. Don't like all of the MFSL versions, (hate their Satisfaction) but it's cool to listen to 'old friends (Stones songs) in a whole new way!

I'm going to figure out with a lot of help which are the best boots. Which are the best Oakland 1969's 2nd show? Which is the best of any of them and which ones suck?

I'd love to download the latest Atlantic City 1989 DVD. Was it Jointrip? I read on IORR the sound has much improved but not the picture. The thing about AC '89 is I don't think there's beed a decent release of the VH1 broadcast or the 3-D Fox broadcast. This is very important because those two broadcast were remixed and not a direct PPV/FM feed. VH1 and FOX are far superior and make the Swinging Pigs 4-CD box sound like shit! There's two ways to tell which broadcast you have with AC '89. On the PPV the miss Bobby's first notes on the sax solo on Sad Sad Sad. Also on the 3D the set list has Paint It Black, 2000 Light Years and IORR together. I haven't heard the FM broadcast of AC '89 but heard it's good.

Another thing I've studied is the 1978 KBFH recording and Handsome Girls. Handsome Girls is very clear sounding but the mix is flat. The KBFH 1978 boots have a great mix but the sound isn't very good but not excellent.

Rumor has it that the 1978 KBFH tapes we stolen from King Biscuit and that is how we got Handsome Girls and that's why KBFH hasn't rebroadcasted anything from 1978 except for the few tracks they've tacked on to the 1981 stuff that people say is Memphis 1978 since Mick mentions Memphis before "Hound Dog." KBFH was slick putting together the 1981 laid back playing and ending the faux concert with fast paced 1978 material. It worked. I considered doing the same with an extended offering but it didn't work for me. 78 should stay with 78.

KBFH/Handsome Girls may have the best Jumping Jack Flash and Tumbling Dice ever! My favorite 1978 KBFH is "Lacerated at the Cocktail Party" on the Dr. Gig label. Where did they come up with that name "Lacerated at the Cocktail Party?" Of course 1978's Passiac show is great. A better "Far Away Eyes" there I think than KBFH/Handsome Girls.

I've studied the 78 and 81 tours a lot. I usually don't bother with audience recordings, how ever I did at one time collect every 1981 audience recording I could find (Hi Charlie) to check the sources.

If you listen to the Philly 81 shows they are much different than the Hampton shows. No horns in Philly which gives Ron more lead such as on "Black Limousine", "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and others. No Go-Go yet. Philly 81 the very beginning of the tour sounds a lot like 1978 by being faster paced than the laid back groove of Hampton. Someone should figure out what are the best tracks from Philly 1 & 2 sound boards and the best quotes where Keith forgets the chords to Let It Bleed and Ron looses his ring and then later gets it back! I'd do all of these projects myself but I'm still downloading and cataloging!

Speaking of 1981, that Phoenix show had some great stuff (Satisfaction Guaranteed) with an awesome "Neighbors", "Black Limo" and my favorite long jamming "Just My Imagination!" It's a pity that show isn't released in great sound! Still Life, I love but it's cut.

What about all of those 1981 monitor mixes that are around? Is there a list? I may have a few to share that aren't out there that someone sent me a while back when I was looking for 81 stuff. I don't know what is needed.

Sorry to Hijack this thread. My point is there are a lot of variations of these songs (Under Assistant is different from one London years Singles Collection to another). Great Sympathy on the 2002 release, probably the best. "You Can'T always Get What You Want" is awesome on Rolled Gold that came out a few years ago.

The point is to all of this is I've studied a lot to answer the question, some Stones more in depth than others. Once Stones Land is complete it will be easy to compare every version of Hot Rocks, every song, etc.. and I'll invite everyone to get a copy and help me sort it all out.

I'm finding one of the keys to figuring out what is what with Stones releaes is to figure out which master was used. Which master, which release has the static on the cow bell on Honky Tonk? Which releases use the MFSL (Mobile Fedility Sound Labs) wide stereo and which use the 1986 Abkco Masters? Which use the 2012 DSD Remasters (best IORR album)?

Here's a hint...grab all of the POCD releases and P25L's you can get for the best MFSL and Abkco 1986.

I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on. I have to go to work.

ExileStones

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exilestones
[...]
I can tell you that all of these versions of Miss You are taken from Miss You #2. [...]

Miss You #2? The 11+ minutes one aka the Hoffmann/Zentgraf version II? If not, what's your reference?

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exilestones

I'm finding one of the keys to figuring out what is what with Stones releaes is to figure out which master was used. Which master, which release has the static on the cow bell on Honky Tonk? Which releases use the MFSL (Mobile Fedility Sound Labs) wide stereo and which use the 1986 Abkco Masters? Which use the 2012 DSD Remasters (best IORR album)?

Here's a hint...grab all of the POCD releases and P25L's you can get for the best MFSL and Abkco 1986.

I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on. I have to go to work.

ExileStones

Well...

MSFL... Did you look here?
[lukpac.org]
and here?
[www.iorr.org] (the images thkbeercan provided with the lists of the ABKCO reels are still there)

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exilestones
[...]
because the "Whaaa" is an over dub [...]

No, it isn't. It's a part of a complete vocal track, a track ready for editing.

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exilestones
[...]
Many people say that Rarities is a shortened DSKO mix or a shortened DS 2002 mix. That is not close to being true. The Rarities is an entirely different mix. [...]

No, it isn't. It's an edit of the 2002 Remix. 7:02-7:53 cut out.

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exilestones
[...]
Miss You #2 - This is the original full-length source master of the officially released, edited versions of Miss You [...]

No, it isn't. It's a different take, different vocal track.

Carster,
The guy seems to have put in a lot of time with this and if his information is wrong then you got to do better than "No, it isn't" 3 times.

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nick
Carster,
The guy seems to have put in a lot of time with this and if his information is wrong then you got to do better than "No, it isn't" 3 times.

Some people like blakeeik or exilestones write in this forum to offer information and some others only can say something like: ""No, your're Wrong... I have the right info that nobody have, but of course: I will not show the evidence that I'm right, because you have no sufficient level"...
...and always this kind of answers, but I think the profile it's useful to know who is writing and that the pattern of the answers is repeated again and again.... take a look at the last messages of anybody at this forum and you will know who it's on the other side.
Best

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exilestones



This is an entirely different mix of Paint It Black from Japan 1966 than found anywhere else. This just recently circulated as a bonus track to a mono 1st pressing of the UK Aftermath.

exilestones - I do not have this 45, but everything I was able to find suggested this is the same 3:24 single mono edit as the US/UK. What UK Aftermath are you referring to, and how is this version different than the US/UK mono single 3:24 version from 1966?

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Carster

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exilestones
[...]
I can tell you that all of these versions of Miss You are taken from Miss You #2. [...]

Miss You #2? The 11+ minutes one aka the Hoffmann/Zentgraf version II? If not, what's your reference?

Miss You #2 runs about 11:35. It's common on some boot releases.

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blakeeik

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exilestones



This is an entirely different mix of Paint It Black from Japan 1966 than found anywhere else. This just recently circulated as a bonus track to a mono 1st pressing of the UK Aftermath.

exilestones - I do not have this 45, but everything I was able to find suggested this is the same 3:24 single mono edit as the US/UK. What UK Aftermath are you referring to, and how is this version different than the US/UK mono single 3:24 version from 1966?

In Japan in 1966 they did their own mix of Paint It Black. I had read about this mix on the Internet. I then hunted for this recording and found it. It certainly sounds different to me. Check out the history below.

HISTORY

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Carster

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exilestones
[...]
because the "Whaaa" is an over dub [...]

No, it isn't. It's a part of a complete vocal track, a track ready for editing.

Quote
exilestones
[...]
Many people say that Rarities is a shortened DSKO mix or a shortened DS 2002 mix. That is not close to being true. The Rarities is an entirely different mix. [...]

No, it isn't. It's an edit of the 2002 Remix. 7:02-7:53 cut out.

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exilestones
[...]
Miss You #2 - This is the original full-length source master of the officially released, edited versions of Miss You [...]

No, it isn't. It's a different take, different vocal track.

"Whaaa" (before the sax or guitar solo - depending on which version of Miss You) was not on Miss You #2 therefore it's an over dub. The point I was making is that this marker is in different places on the 8.35 releases and the LP releases of Miss You. So, it you use the "Whaaa" as a marker, it's a bad marker, it doesn't match on the two edits of the song.

First you need to understand that all of the released versions of Miss You came from Miss You #2. Digest that information and then try to match the "Whaaa"! Good luck. I spelled it out in my notes exactly where the "Whaaa" is in each version.

"No, it isn't. It's an edit of the 2002 Remix. 7:02-7:53 cut out." I don't think so at all. Re-read my statements. I laid it all out for you to compare. Listen to the mix during the harmonica solo before the 7 minute mark on Rarities and also on the 2002 remix. It's not even close. Do your homework!

"No, it isn't. It's a different take, different vocal track." Don't just guess at things. Compare this stuff if you want to discuss it. The vocal track is an over dub. You can hear the vocals in Miss You #2 bleed through in the official versions of Miss You. I'm not explaining it any further since I gave you my notes and you didn't compare anything.

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ironbelly

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exilestones

I'm finding one of the keys to figuring out what is what with Stones releaes is to figure out which master was used. Which master, which release has the static on the cow bell on Honky Tonk? Which releases use the MFSL (Mobile Fedility Sound Labs) wide stereo and which use the 1986 Abkco Masters? Which use the 2012 DSD Remasters (best IORR album)?

Here's a hint...grab all of the POCD releases and P25L's you can get for the best MFSL and Abkco 1986.

I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on. I have to go to work.

ExileStones

Well...

MSFL... Did you look here?
[lukpac.org]
and here?
[www.iorr.org] (the images thkbeercan provided with the lists of the ABKCO reels are still there)

Thanks for the links! I'm very familiar with Luk Pac, Chris M stereo stones. They do solve pieces of the puzzle but far from all of it.

If you read Luk Pac and understand it all, you know that out of the mid 80's MFSL releases from West Germany and Japan, the first West German releases are better due to fade-ins. This is great info. Japan used the wide stereo MFSL mixes also but Luk Pac's work stopped before the the P25L series but it does include the P33L series. Then Luke jumped to the 2002 Remasters. Luc Pak did unearth stereo versions from Abkco releases but there not a lot of detail except for what was released in stereo.

Luk Pac does a lot of research on the 2002 Remasters and the West German mid 1980's MFSL releases. Luc Pak research is excellent but dated since it never went past this point in to the P33L Japan releases. I think if Luk Pac's work went in to the P25L series, Luke and associates would probably agree that the P25L series are all the MFSL (wide stereo) recordings in better sound the the earlier MFSL mixes.



I'm trying to figure out each mix. How many different incarnations are there of each song, so my quested is more detailed.

A friend asked me why I cared about the 1986 Abkco "DIGITALLY REMASTERED SERIES." He asked, "Aren't the 2002 Remasters better?" In some cases yes and other songs no. It's could all be subjective (a matter of taste as to what is better). I think the 1986 Abkco Digitally Remastered Series of mono Paint it Black is best because it's the most powerful version and it's also the longer version. I also like the long narrow stereo version on 40 Licks, the TOP-1053 Japan 1966 single and the MFSL wide stereo is cool too. All of these versions are different mixes. I want to know which release of each song is which mix. When somebody says the love Paint It Black, I think, "Which one?"

HISTORY

Chris M is also figuring out the stereo v mono thing. Nobody really got in to every mix of each song, just stereo and mono.

Sorry, if I said much of this info before. Many people trash the 1986 Abkco Digitally Remastered Series. Yes, many of the tracks on the CDs had bad sound but many of the mixes are great. Besides paint It Black, Under My Thumb was great! The best, I think so far but I didn't compare all of the Under My Thumbs yet.

some people will say, "Stay away from the CDs with the black and red banner "DIGITALLY REMASTERED" on the bottom of the cover of the CDs. People could think that all of the 1986 releases suck sound wise. Over all, I agree but what about the the vinyl from the 1986 Abkco (aka "Old Abkco")?

You may notice the the Japan POCD series in the mid 1990s has the same black and red "DIGITALLY REMASTERED" banner. It's because the POCD series uses the same 1986 Abkco masters and the sound is great!



HISTORY

Japan keeps remixing and rereleasing Rolling Stones albums. In 2012 there were remasters from all eras of the rolling Stones.



There are many re-releases, remixed Rolling Stones albums that it's nuts! I'd like them all be available for download so that everybody could compare and share the observations.

For now, I figure that any Abkco released between 1986 and 2002 and any albums from the POCD series are from the 1986 Abkco Digitally Remasted series. Any Abkco released from 2002 - 2009 are from the mixes from the Abkco 2002 Remastered Series (not fully confirmed).

UM (Universal Music) keeps remixing and rereleasing. They have a 2009 and a 2012 mix (and more) of various Rolling Stones albums. Just comparing those sets of remasters is a big job! You don't have to look at comparing the mixes as a big job. Just listen to one of the releases, you'll notice difference. Take the UM 2009 Goats Head Soup, over all it sucks! It's the muddiest version of Heartbreaker! Dancing with Mr. D, listen to the first 20 seconds and hear the guitars separated, it sucks! I loved it when those two guitars were mixed as on guitar sound in the original Mr D's. However, I think Star Star is a great little nugget. It's clear and it's the censored version! I love the censored version. I think this is the only place to get this version on CD.

UM 2009's Hand of Fate is awesome! UM's 2011 mix of the It's Only Rock and Roll album is probably the best release of that album ever!



The studio album release of Sympathy For the Devil was best on the 2002 release of The London Years - Singles Collection, speed corrected and just better sounding.

The London Years - Singles Collection original release has the uncensored "ass" version of Under Assistant West Coast Promo Man.

Rolled Gold 2007 has the best sounding You Can't Always Get What You Want that I've found.

I'm trying to find the best versions of each song and there's a lot out there!

I'm looking forward to the IORR thread you sent THANKS!

exilestones

I am not a big fan of those Japanese editions. The main reason is - there is too much foam around them. You know, those OBI, stickers, packaging etc. However I have some info for those. I can check peak levels for some editions. Apparently P33L and P25L were pressed using the same glass masters (matrices). This means that those are digital clones but most of them do not correspond to West German edition. The difference is in peak level and specific EQ. But the original master tapes for West German and Japanese P33L and P25L are the same.

When it comes to POCD series - the same tapes were utilized up to POCD-1930. The last set, starting POCD-1960 utilizes ABKCO master tapes.

Special cases:
No2 - unique version, probably, Japanese-made A->D transfer. The sound is rather thin and unimpressive.
Big Hits High Tide & Green Grass (UK) - Japanese-made A->D transfer. A couple of tracks that were in mono for regular CDs are in 'fake stereo'. Very uneven and bizarre sound.
Big Hits Vol.2 (UK) - the same story.
At the moment I can not provide you detailed info on those Japanese editions, I do not have them in hands.

For West German editions it looks like this.

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exilestones

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blakeeik

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exilestones
I´m not a good downloader, - and my machine won´t allow me to download from the
HISTORY-link. But, can see it described as "Stereo Short", -
Pretty sure, that it is the 3.20 full stereo-version, that was CD-released on Japan-London/Polydor Hot Rocks 1 - in 1985, - (rereleased in ´95 ? )
Makes sense, that this stereo-mix wasn´t made for the CD, - but derived from
an old 7".
The very same mix is on GRRR, - at least the EU-manufactured version.




This is an entirely different mix of Paint It Black from Japan 1966 than found anywhere else. This just recently circulated as a bonus track to a mono 1st pressing of the UK Aftermath.

exilestones - I do not have this 45, but everything I was able to find suggested this is the same 3:24 single mono edit as the US/UK. What UK Aftermath are you referring to, and how is this version different than the US/UK mono single 3:24 version from 1966?

In Japan in 1966 they did their own mix of Paint It Black. I had read about this mix on the Internet. I then hunted for this recording and found it. It certainly sounds different to me. Check out the history below.

HISTORY

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-02-27 12:24 by HenrikBB.

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HenrikBB

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exilestones

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blakeeik

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exilestones
I´m not a good downloader, - and my machine won´t allow me to download from the
HISTORY-link. But, can see it described as "Stereo Short", -
Pretty sure, that it is the 3.20 full stereo-version, that was CD-released on Japan-London/Polydor Hot Rocks 1 - in 1985, - (rereleased in ´95 ? )
Makes sense, that this stereo-mix wasn´t made for the CD, - but derived from
an old 7".
The very same mix is on GRRR, - at least the EU-manufactured version.




This is an entirely different mix of Paint It Black from Japan 1966 than found anywhere else. This just recently circulated as a bonus track to a mono 1st pressing of the UK Aftermath.

exilestones - I do not have this 45, but everything I was able to find suggested this is the same 3:24 single mono edit as the US/UK. What UK Aftermath are you referring to, and how is this version different than the US/UK mono single 3:24 version from 1966?

In Japan in 1966 they did their own mix of Paint It Black. I had read about this mix on the Internet. I then hunted for this recording and found it. It certainly sounds different to me. Check out the history below.

HISTORY

That one is identical to the stereo Paint It Black found on Hot Rocks (SACD reissue).

www.rsundercover.eu

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Britney

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HenrikBB

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exilestones

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blakeeik

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exilestones
I´m not a good downloader, - and my machine won´t allow me to download from the
HISTORY-link. But, can see it described as "Stereo Short", -
Pretty sure, that it is the 3.20 full stereo-version, that was CD-released on Japan-London/Polydor Hot Rocks 1 - in 1985, - (rereleased in ´95 ? )
Makes sense, that this stereo-mix wasn´t made for the CD, - but derived from
an old 7".
The very same mix is on GRRR, - at least the EU-manufactured version.




This is an entirely different mix of Paint It Black from Japan 1966 than found anywhere else. This just recently circulated as a bonus track to a mono 1st pressing of the UK Aftermath.

exilestones - I do not have this 45, but everything I was able to find suggested this is the same 3:24 single mono edit as the US/UK. What UK Aftermath are you referring to, and how is this version different than the US/UK mono single 3:24 version from 1966?

In Japan in 1966 they did their own mix of Paint It Black. I had read about this mix on the Internet. I then hunted for this recording and found it. It certainly sounds different to me. Check out the history below.

HISTORY

That one is identical to the stereo Paint It Black found on Hot Rocks (SACD reissue).

Hmmm - Never paid the US-Aftermath - stereo, - much attention, - as the UK, - for me, - always has been the REAL Aftermath !
But, - found a utube upload of the full album, - US-Aftermath, - with
Paint it Black - 3.20 - stereo - with the dulcimer in the right channel, -
and the drums entirely in the left channel . . . .
Maybe this "strange" stereo-version has no Japanese origin, -
but simply is the version, that was on the US-stereo-release - ?
To me, - it sounds equal to the 1985 Hot Rocks 1, - Japan-released version . .
which I thought was unique, - until the GRRR - EU-manufactured appeared -
Please enlighten Me !

Rarities Done Right (2015 update)


Plus, if anyone has this one, please let me know. Thanks!

Midnight Rambler 6.52 Probably - studio version



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-17 02:33 by ironbelly.

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ironbelly
Midnight Rambler 6.52 Probably - studio version

The label is reportedly wrong. Time is only three minutes 15 seconds.

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blakeeik
Rarities Done Right (2015 update)


Plus, if anyone has this one, please let me know. Thanks!

Great update, many thanks.

About that single, I think it was treated in the [stonescave.ning.com]

Best

If this is the same set, on Rarities Deluxe disc 2, what is track 11? It's not listed in the book. It's samples of Exile songs.

I found it. Exile On Main Street Blues. What was it on and what was it for?

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dave9199
I found it. Exile On Main Street Blues. What was it on and what was it for?

[www.45cat.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-29 02:12 by Deltics.