A slight overreaction. One man died at Altamont. Nothing more nothing less - it had no significant impact on western civilisation except for a bunch of belly button gazing hippies. To compare it with Pearl Harbour demonstates a completely distorted view of the world.

It may have ad an impact on the Stones, it may have indicated a chnage in values but it chnaged nothing in itself.

Everyone is still dealing with whether Altamont was actually the "end of an era" and such.

The point in my latest two posts was evidently missed, or people simply chose not to deal with them.

You are dealing with what you want to deal with. So, again, consider the following.

To rehash or re-state:

At this point, I am merely saying that to some people, both are symbols for a period in time. I am only talking about symbols, not realities. Symbols. To some people. To more people in the case of Pearl Harbor.

I am not saying that Altamont was the end of an era.

I am not saying that Altamont changed things.

I am not particularly endorsing either of those beliefs.

I simply say that both have become symbols and that symbols are powerful.

Altamont is definitely a symbol of an era (perhaps the end of an era) to some people, and, I think, to people beyond just the media. Did the media create the symbol? Perhaps.

But the media has a powerful influence on people and some have come to accept the Altamont symbol thru the media, some on their own.

To simply say "those media people created this" is to ignore the reality that, for some folks anyway, they do believe it, regardless of why. Lines blur and are indistinct.

So, was Altamont the end of an era? Can it or can it not be compared to Pearl Harbor? You may be right, you may be wrong, whatever u believe.

At this point, I am not arguing or talking about what you or I believe or what is correct or incorrect.

One way or another, these two have become powerful symbols to some people. Is that so difficult to accept?

What u or I personally believe is immaterial now and misses what I am saying at this point.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2008-12-07 16:48 by timbernardis.

Well said, I read the topic and thought 'how can you compare a death at a rock concert (sad indeed) to Pearl Harbor with over 2000 deaths and the start of WWII for the USA?
Unfortunately many have died at concerts, The Who, The Stones and so on, what about the bar in NY or CT where the fire was out of control? Last week a guy got trampled at a Walmart. But to compare to Pearl Harbor?
I would say 99% of Americans or Europeans could NOT tell you a thing about Altamont.

My two cents on another topic, Lennon's death was a tragedy. That had monumental ramifications IMHO.

i think a lot of people from the Sixties generation, at least in the US, know what Altamont is.


p

I had to go back and remind myself of what started this:

"Altamont and Pearl Harbor. 39 and 67 years since. Regardless of the vast difference in scale, both have had reverberations that are felt to the present day." And the adding of John's murder.

I agree ... it's strange how those three things occurred on successive dates.

Personally, I think it's strange how folks have been attacking these ideas. You've obviously touched some sort of button here and I'm not quite sure what it is.

Marv

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

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marvpeck
I had to go back and remind myself of what started this:

"Altamont and Pearl Harbor. 39 and 67 years since. Regardless of the vast difference in scale, both have had reverberations that are felt to the present day." And the adding of John's murder.

I agree ... it's strange how those three things occurred on successive dates.

Personally, I think it's strange how folks have been attacking these ideas. You've obviously touched some sort of button here and I'm not quite sure what it is.

Marv

I've often thought that myself. And whilst I dont really believe in astrology, its interesting that when the Stones announced a free concert for 6th December 1969, a lot of astrologers at the time - and obviously in that ear these things were a big deal - publicly stated that they would be advised to cancel it as everything pointed to that date being potentially disastrous. (Apparently, the organisers of Woodstock consulted astrologers before picking a date where it was felt things would be more likely to be harmonious whereas with Altamont that wasnt the case).

Maybe its just something about that time of year!

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ryanpow

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ChrisM
... The press gave Altamont the tag "end of the 60's" or some such thing, but really the hippy ideal of peace and love ended after the Summer of Love in 1967 and the nail in the coffin was the assassination of RFK and MLK a year later..

wow, this is the exact post I made In the end of 60's thread. I guess I must have learned something in school after all!

It's great to know that great minds think alike!

"One way or another, these two have become powerful symbols to some people."

Wow. Cultural studies really have gone crazy. So two events, which perhaps bear no relation one to the other, of which the latter perhaps has no major intrinsic significance, have come to been considered, perhaps, by some people, as two symbols (but not realities) in relation to two historical phenomena which perhaps are not to be compared.
No, that is not difficult to accept. But it is not much to say either.

A butterfly is a symbol of sensuality in chinese culture. China is dominating the economy. Capitalism is fueled by the quest for sensory pleasure. Is that so hard to accept? Surely not. But it does not mean anything - either...

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hbwriter
i took this from the exact location of the stage, looking out toward the meredith hunter site, toward the left

[www.flickr.com]

one of the all time great photos...........a field..........wowwwwwww

Not only bad things happened on those dates:

"On December seventh, 1962, bassist Bill Wyman auditioned for the Rolling Stones. He played his first gig with the band the following week." (digtriad.com)
Oh, without forgetting Beggars Banquet,of course.

I bet it all changed the world...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-12-08 01:10 by FolkyFireKitten1.

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Sir Craven of Cottage
A slight overreaction. One man died at Altamont. Nothing more nothing less - it had no significant impact on western civilisation except for a bunch of belly button gazing hippies. To compare it with Pearl Harbour demonstates a completely distorted view of the world.

It may have ad an impact on the Stones, it may have indicated a chnage in values but it chnaged nothing in itself.

Sunrise........birds are singing.........the village wakes up.............but wait :



May I have another cup of tea,Mortimer ?

they played a pretty good show at Altamont, hope they release the tapes or footage sometime. to me altamont is a symbol of cashing in on the drama with a carefully orchestrated and edited snuff film, in concert with jann wenner wanting to throw some red meat at the hungry dogs with tabloid coverage...
(with GS tho, we do get some GREAT concert footage from gigs at other places on the tour....and some cool footage of keith in the studio with mick mixing the album that had to stop the financial bleeding of 'liver than you'll ever be' boot...i like the movie but not the way it crescendos up to the death and destruction imagery like some puff piece version of manufactured desolation to sell papers, albums and movie tickets.

bring on the music from that day.

i love what charlie does on the symbols...and the kick drum too.

I don't think Plexi meant that the two events were comparable, only that one happened on the 6th December and the other on 7th December. That the two are on subsequent days is merely incidental.

I just wrote something by e mail about this to someone else involved in this thread and I thought I would repeat it here.


In any event, I do think both have become symbols, quite transcending the reality of whatever it was that actually took place at the time. Which is how phenomena become symbols and then become the stuff of myth and legend.

I mean, think about Custer -- a tremendous symbol in this day and age for genocide and anti-Indian feeling, but the reality of that I think was somewhat different. Not that what he did was great.

When things become symbols, they tend to take on a life of their own, regardless of the reality of the original event.

I do think, again, that Pearl and Altamont have become symbols of an era (or two eras) in the eyes of a number of people. How many, I do not know.


plexi

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timbernardis
I do think, again, that Pearl and Altamont have become symbols of an era (or two eras) in the eyes of a number of people. How many, I do not know.

looks like about two...give or take....