my theory is that there was more than one gunman in dealey plaza that day, working independently and unbeknownst to each other.

Interesting photo here, supposedly showing Oswald on the ground floor of the school book depository building as the motorcade passed:

I was in 5th grade at a catholic school
We just got back from lunch when the school janitor came to the door and called our teacher over
He said something to her, and she told us the Prez just was shot, and we should all pray for him. A little later the news came that JFK was dead
We were all sent home for the day


BTW,I believe Oswald acted alone.
conspiricy books are a cottage industry in this country



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-23 16:29 by Doctor Dear!.

Edith

sure that wasnt an Oswald "double"?

And how much time elapsed between when that foto was taken and when the first shot was made? Might he have had time to run up the stairs (or an elevator, whatever) to get into position in the "sniper's nest" to do the dirty deed?

Perhaps u know as u have toured the building and are perhaps familiar with its physical layout and such.


p

This morning was the first time I have seen that pic.
I'm thinking it is a guy who happens to look like Oswald, or a touched-up photo.
I don't ever recall Oswald saying he was in the doorway when the motorcade went by, but I do believe he claims to be in the lunch room when the shooting occurred which, if I am correct, is on the ground floor.

Dealey Plaza is not a big place. It took me two, maybe three minutes to walk from the depository building to the underpass by the grassy knoll.
Granted, I tend to walk fast, but I am assuming the motorcade was moving faster than I can walk, the only exception being when they had to make the 45-degree turn in front of the depository which was several seconds before the shooting.

For Oswald to run up six floors and fire off three shots after the motorcade was already in front of the building, IMO, would be impossible.

The pic below gives a fairly good idea of the size of Dealey Plaza.
The school book depository building is on the left, the grassy knoll is in the foreground on the left.
The car in the photo is approaching the spot where Kennedy was at the time of the shooting.



Aerial view of Dealey Plaza and the motorcade's route:

Quote
Edith Grove
This morning was the first time I have seen that pic.
I'm thinking it is a guy who happens to look like Oswald, or a touched-up photo.
I don't ever recall Oswald saying he was in the doorway when the motorcade went by, but I do believe he claims to be in the lunch room when the shooting occurred which, if I am correct, is on the ground floor.

Dealey Plaza is not a big place. It took me two, maybe three minutes to walk from the depository building to the underpass by the grassy knoll.
Granted, I tend to walk fast, but I am assuming the motorcade was moving faster than I can walk, the only exception being when they had to make the 45-degree turn in front of the depository which was several seconds before the shooting.

For Oswald to run up six floors and fire off three shots after the motorcade was already in front of the building, IMO, would be impossible.

The pic below gives a fairly good idea of the size of Dealey Plaza.
The school book depository building is on the left, the grassy knoll is in the foreground on the left.
The car in the photo is approaching the spot where Kennedy was at the time of the shooting.



Aerial view of Dealey Plaza and the motorcade's route:

That's pretty fascinating stuff EG. Including the picture of Oswald on the ground floor. I was 1 yr old at the time and don't remember anything about the shooting or the aftermath. But over the years I have become somewhat fixated on the whole Kennedy assasnation and usually watch any kind of documentary or special on it. I think it's obvious their was more to it than just Oswald. But after all these years I'm not sure we will ever get a defenitive answer of what really happened or who was behind it.

Quote
schillid
Either HelterSkelter is using all his willpower to not comment...
or...
he hasn't read this thread yet

LOL, Yes, second quess is correct, HS was busy TRYING (aka BUSTING HIS ASS) to hook up a new 5.1 (7.1) Surround Sound system in the living room.... can you spell F R U S T R A T I O N ?!?!? Man, I haven't seen so many wires since Aunt Bee was running the phone switch board in Mayberry with ANDY, BARNEY, and FLOYD THE BARBER. Got more to do today, Can't effing wait

The JFK thing? Come on, more than one shooter FOR SURE !!! Funny how all the good guys - JFK, MLK, RFK, Lennon get killed but all the rats stick around forever.

RECAP:

Shot #1 Missed everyone but heard and startled many

Shot #2 Front JFK throat hit (below adams apple) On the Zapruder film Kennedy is seen reaching for his throat as they emerge from the freeway sigh that obscured the actual throat hit being caught on film

Shot# 3 Kennedy hit in the upper back

Shot# 4 Govn. Conally Hit

Shot# 5 hits curb, cement chip hits and cuts bystander in the face

Shot# 6 Fatal Head Shot

6 shots in a little over 6 seconds with Oswalds $29 cheap, single bolt rifle?? I don't think so. Then Oswald gets arrested and none of the interrogation is recorded by anyone on any sort of recording tape? No notes of the interrogation? Come on man, then the dude is shot by some guy walking around with a gun with a million police around. Then RUBY wants to spill the beans but demands Fed protection after he does "tell all" - the US Government never agrees to this and all of a sudden Ruby "Comes down with" cancer and dies. Yeah, if all makes PERFECT sense....... 11/22/63, HORRIBLE DAY - the beginning of everything slowly changing for the worse......

I have always thought that there were two shooters because of the rifle that was used. One of my many interests or hobbies included target shooting and collecting old military weapons. I pursued this for maybe 10 years before tiring of it and going on to other things. I would say that I was quite good on the range competeing in the target matches. I owned two of the Carcano rifles like the cheapo that Oswald used. They are indeed cheaply made and in my opinion an extremely poor choice for such use. All of the members in the shooting club felt the same way about these rifles. Several other members owned them as well but just for collection pieces. I can say that that six shots fired from my two Carcanos in six seconds would be quite a feat. Hitting a target several times in that time frame even harder. These are not very accurate rifles and every member of this club that did own them said the same thing about them, that it really cast suspicion on the assination from the start. I think that another shooter was present with a rifle of the same caliber but used a modern rifle that produced target quality accuracy. Any good gunsmith can build such a rifle. The same caliber was used to make it seem that only one rifle fired all of the shots even though the barrel markings on the fired bullet could prove otherwise. Just my thoughts on the assasination, but this has always been stuck in my mind. You would think that after so many years somewhere along the line new information would have surfaced about that day.

More importantly 23 November is the 45th annversary of the first episode of Dr Who.

It is a total injustice that to this day, we still don't know who was behind his murder. I've read a fair bit of the assassination literature and my take is that he was killed by secret CIA assassination program called Operation 40 that was designed to kill Castro.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Many of the alleged participants in the assassination were members of Operation 40..including E Howard Hunt (later deeply involved in the Watergate scandal. Interestingly, all of the Watergate burglars were members of Operation 40.)

[en.wikipedia.org]

Hunt said on his deathbed that Lyndon Johnson approved the murder.

RIP John Kennedy.

a terrible chain of events, that still resonates to this day.
Here's hoping, that one day, however long it takes, justice and truth
will prevail

I had a teacher once who told us that one day they're going to release a bunch of classified information about the investigation, but it will be so far into the future that no one who was alive at the time would be around anymore. Has anyone else heard of this and know what it is about?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-24 23:37 by ryanpow.

Quote
ryanpow
I had a teacher once who told us that one day they're going to release a bunch of classified information about the investigation, but it will be so far into the future that no one who was alive at the time would be around anymore. Has anyone else heard of this and know what it is about?

I've heard that as well...I'd say we are getting pretty close to the point that most of the principals have already died. So let's hope that some of the very deeply guarded info about this finally gets released one day.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-24 23:41 by sweetcharmedlife.

yeah , I guess the thinking behind releasing it at such a late time is that it will cause a lot less of an outrage. The whole thing is so contrived.

I don't know why I allow myself to get worked up about this, but here goes:

For the love of God, when will people realize that JFK was assassinated by a lunatic named Lee Harvey Oswald?

It wasn't the Mafia or the Cubans or the Russians or LBJ or big business or small business or even Brian Jones or Brian Epstein or anyone else that has been suggested in one of the cockamaymee theoroes that have been going around for 45 years. Let me be more concise: Lee Harvey Oswald smuggled a rifle to work and when JFK drove by, LHO pulled the trigger and killed him.

I know people have a hard time with this, and I know it doesn't make sense that such a monumental event could not have more sinister implications. And yes, there were some funny things that seemed to happen that day: the funny movement his head made and the smoke in the grassy knoll and the strange bullet and all the rest. But don't you think that if there was a grand master plot, it would have been leaked by now? Someone would have made a deathbed confession? The most scrutinized murder in the history of mankind, and we have never been able to find the smoking gun?

I know it is more fun to consider all the possible theories. Like a detective novel. But the simple truth is, LHO killed JFK...and when Jack Ruby killed LHO, it meant we will never completely understand Oswald's motivation.

Quote
bianca
I don't know why I allow myself to get worked up about this, but here goes:

For the love of God, when will people realize that JFK was assassinated by a lunatic named Lee Harvey Oswald?

It wasn't the Mafia or the Cubans or the Russians or LBJ or big business or small business or even Brian Jones or Brian Epstein or anyone else that has been suggested in one of the cockamaymee theoroes that have been going around for 45 years. Let me be more concise: Lee Harvey Oswald smuggled a rifle to work and when JFK drove by, LHO pulled the trigger and killed him.

I know people have a hard time with this, and I know it doesn't make sense that such a monumental event could not have more sinister implications. And yes, there were some funny things that seemed to happen that day: the funny movement his head made and the smoke in the grassy knoll and the strange bullet and all the rest. But don't you think that if there was a grand master plot, it would have been leaked by now? Someone would have made a deathbed confession? The most scrutinized murder in the history of mankind, and we have never been able to find the smoking gun?

I know it is more fun to consider all the possible theories. Like a detective novel. But the simple truth is, LHO killed JFK...and when Jack Ruby killed LHO, it meant we will never completely understand Oswald's motivation.

sounds like bianca has something to hide. J'ACCUSE!

------



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-25 02:07 by ryanpow.

They told me ones ...wait 1 minute to post what you you want to post........... so I did.

Blanco

__________________________

Quote
bianca
I don't know why I allow myself to get worked up about this, but here goes:

For the love of God, when will people realize that JFK was assassinated by a lunatic named Lee Harvey Oswald?

It wasn't the Mafia or the Cubans or the Russians or LBJ or big business or small business or even Brian Jones or Brian Epstein or anyone else that has been suggested in one of the cockamaymee theoroes that have been going around for 45 years. Let me be more concise: Lee Harvey Oswald smuggled a rifle to work and when JFK drove by, LHO pulled the trigger and killed him.

I know people have a hard time with this, and I know it doesn't make sense that such a monumental event could not have more sinister implications. And yes, there were some funny things that seemed to happen that day: the funny movement his head made and the smoke in the grassy knoll and the strange bullet and all the rest. But don't you think that if there was a grand master plot, it would have been leaked by now? Someone would have made a deathbed confession? The most scrutinized murder in the history of mankind, and we have never been able to find the smoking gun?

I know it is more fun to consider all the possible theories. Like a detective novel. But the simple truth is, LHO killed JFK...and when Jack Ruby killed LHO, it meant we will never completely understand Oswald's motivation.

With all due respect Bianca. Read this:

RECAP:

Shot #1 Missed everyone but heard and startled many

Shot #2 Front JFK throat hit (below adams apple) On the Zapruder film Kennedy is seen reaching for his throat as they emerge from the freeway sigh that obscured the actual throat hit being caught on film

Shot# 3 Kennedy hit in the upper back

Shot# 4 Govn. Conally Hit

Shot# 5 hits curb, cement chip hits and cuts bystander in the face

Shot# 6 Fatal Head Shot

6 shots in a little over 6 seconds with Oswalds $29 cheap, single bolt rifle?? I don't think so. Then Oswald gets arrested and none of the interrogation is recorded by anyone on any sort of recording tape? No notes of the interrogation? Come on man, then the dude is shot by some guy walking around with a gun with a million police around. Then RUBY wants to spill the beans but demands Fed protection after he does "tell all" - the US Government never agrees to this and all of a sudden Ruby "Comes down with" cancer and dies. Yeah, if all makes PERFECT sense....... 11/22/63, HORRIBLE DAY - the beginning of everything slowly changing for the worse......

T & A, I couldn't agree more. People have a hard time accepting that an event of such an epic magnitude could be caused by one crazy man.

Quote
DaveG
T & A, I couldn't agree more. People have a hard time accepting that an event of such an epic magnitude could be caused by one crazy man.

OK,exactly where is it that T & A said that he thought it was done by one man...I didn't see that post.

Quote
sweetcharmedlife

Quote
DaveG
T & A, I couldn't agree more. People have a hard time accepting that an event of such an epic magnitude could be caused by one crazy man.

OK,exactly where is it that T & A said that he thought it was done by one man...I didn't see that post.

nevertheless, he gets to agree with whomever he wants whenever he wants.

it's a well-known fact that at least one person killed jfk. my own personal theory is that the actual number of people involved is somewhere between 1 and 35.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-25 06:31 by T&A.

Well, whatever one believes, judging from the response that this thread has generated, it is obvious that the subject still touches a chord that deeply resonates with people everywhere for various reasons. It is deep and it is still raw.

That alone tells says something very interesting and perhaps tells u a lot more about people since 1963 and to date in 2008 more than it will ever tell u about the actual facts of the case.

Like the Battle of the Little Big Horn, it is an open wound on the American conscience and psyche and one which will be debated, but likely never settled and never absolutely known as to exactly what happened. Tells us more about us than about anything else.

When watching a History Channel special last eve with Posner, what enveloped me more than anything was that same sick, dark feeling that I had in 1963 when it was actually happening and I was one of the "witnesses" who was a part of that national event. That old black and white footage, the oh so familiar characters and "plot" (in the general sense, the story u could say), reliving a national nightmare that will never, for some of us, ever go away.

I think that, whatever we believe about what actually happened, we can all agree that it was a terrible, terrible tragedy which still affects us deeply to this day.

So now, part deux. At the risk of having this thread closed, I would like to revisit the second part of my original post ...


This country changed forever on that day... Now we are awakened once again. This time, God help us, we will not be denied our due.

Please, please, keep it civil.

So, your thoughts on this . . . .

Quote
timbernardis
So, your thoughts on this . . . .

my thoughts are that DaveG couldn't agree more with them....

OK.

Have u any thoughts on "This time, God help us, we will not be denied our due." ???


plexi

Quote
timbernardis
OK.

Have u any thoughts on "This time, God help us, we will not be denied our due." ???


plexi

indeed we do. DaveG will be happy to share them when he gets a moment.

Quote
timbernardis
OK.

Have u any thoughts on "This time, God help us, we will not be denied our due." ???


plexi

Plexi,trust me. T & A has no reasonable thoughts on anything...He gives braindead a whole new meaning...Not to mention giving us locals a VERY bad name.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Quote
sweetcharmedlife

Quote
timbernardis
OK.

Have u any thoughts on "This time, God help us, we will not be denied our due." ???


plexi

Plexi,trust me. T & A has no reasonable thoughts on anything...He gives braindead a whole new meaning...Not to mention giving us locals a VERY bad name.

he's right, mr. glass. i could while away the hours, if i only had a brain. oh, the thoughts i could be thinkin'...be another lincoln and all that. ooo - can we tie this lincoln theory into this thread?

The Zapruder film shows, in relation to the fatal head shot, JFK going backwards and to the left - consistent with a shot from the front and right (grassy knoll). However, this point has come in for some criticism.

According to the "official" investigation, there were three shots fired. One leaving the so called "magic bullet" ie, left in basically pristine condition even though it allegedly passed through JFK's back and shattered Connoley's rib and wrist (if I recall correctly).

Also worth mentioning, that Oswald [ex-Marine] defected to Russia but was allowed back into the U.S. My belief that he was involved in the assassination, in some capacity, but wasn't even one of the shooters.

The government also lost JFK's brain after the autopsy. Lots and lots of strange occurences.

The assassination files are locked away by the U.S. government until 2038 (I believe). I think Time have the full story and I had read a few years ago that they were going to tell all but I never heard anything about it since.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-25 09:17 by terraplane.