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And the genesis for punk started with folks like Gene Vincent, early elvis, Jerry Lee and other greasers! Big white boy punks....or as the Tubes joked...white punks on dope!

Very true. Don't forget Eddie Cochran. I think JLL was the first true punk. As for the Stones, Johnny Thunders worshiped Keith. I sat next to Joe Strummer at a Winos show at the Beacon in 93. And we still hate Pink Floyd!

And the Stones most 'punk' work is on Dirty Work

In-your-face, abrasive, little emphasis on melody or 'swing' -

mainly:

Hold Back
Fight
Dirty Work
Had It With You

Keith's slicing ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!
Jagger's SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM

Some girls is punk-influenced - themes and to some extent style - but it's still Stones-style and generally swings.

Em. Rescue just has some fake punk on it - still too much Berrychuck to be genuine.

SSC is just too subtle,textured, crafted to be 'punk' - but is fantastic btw.

Some stuff on Talk on Cheap is pretty Punk, musically - Whip It Up - in fact that band's sound was pretty 'hard'



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-21 01:51 by Four Stone Walls.

The Wall inspired by Punk?

If I was erronous by suggesting the stark messages of isolation Waters created in the mid 70's, forgive me. But with that statement, I'd call it even! I wasn't 'there' (I was but a wee one)and only went by what I've been told by older Brit blokes. But to suggest that The Wall was influnced by punk is pure fiction. It was derived from a particular incident involving Roger vs a fan in Montreal on their 1977 Animals tour.

But back to the point.
I don't see the Stones as ever being 'punk'.
They were a far more beautiful creature than that.

[thepowergoats.com]

And the Ramones covered Street Fighting Man... great version...

Any more suggestions for PUNK or PUNKISH or PUNK-INFLUENCED or PRE-PUNK songs by The Rolling Stones, or to delete one or two from my above list ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-21 12:26 by 1962.

Delete everything they recorded pre 1977!

Jamesfdouglas,

About 'The Wall' - well first about the Who.

Their 1973 concept album 'Quadrophenia' was about a Mod. It was retrospective, and it was personal to one guy, growing up with the usual personal 'crises' that arise as a guy adjusts himself personally and socially amongst his peers and within society. Something like that! Anyway, it was retrospective and almost nostalgic. It had sod-all to do with the UK 'punk' phenomenon of 1976-77.
But it had a song called "The Godfather and the Punk". And somehow, by about 1979 someone, somehow had made a connection with this album and its 'message' and the now slightly recent real 'punk' social/musical movement. A film was made, starring many of the 'new-wave' music stars. The Who gained found new status, relevance and 'legitimacy' - while only a few years earlier they had been lampooned as being among the 'boring old fart' brigade.

And Pink Floyd? An album mainly tracking a similar theme to Quadrphenia. Their songs are now shorter and somewhat sharper. Not a lot of musical experimentation, if any. Nothing expanded for the sake of musicosity. All focused and messge based. And Hey - then it gets a film treatment (as had Quadrophenia) with Bob "Looking After No 1" Geldoff in the lead part. Although on the Pop side of punk/new wave Bob was certainly one of the 'new guard' who was now finding a role in the old guard's game, which he and his new-wave peers had influenced.

I don't know anything about a 1977 Animals tour incident, but I reckon much of the Wall is personal to Roger's youth (in the same way that Quadrophenia was to Townsend's) and it all came out succesfully on the back of the punk revolution or in the post-punk context. I went to Roger's school (and had the same music teacher) and i sufferred the same sadistic teacher who is featured in the Wall. That teacher lived around the corner from me. At home that teacher was rather meek, being dominated by a strict German Frauline! So I chuckled on seeing that cartoony sequence in the film - the teacher beating the boy, while himself being beaten at home. Gilmour's family lived on the same street as me, (though my childhood memories are vague) - but Dave would have had the same teacher and was probably aware of that teacher's family situation.

I do know that my friends/acquaintances who were punk/new wave in 1977-78 and would have had little time for Animals, by 1980 they could 'dig' the Wall, its message, and the subsequent film, especially as it starred some of their new-wave heroes.

So, ironically, Stones and Who and Pink Floyd did better out of punk than the punks themselves.

I doubt that Start Me Up, a 1976 reggae demo, would have been unearthed and given a 'fast' treattment, had it not been for punk.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-21 14:32 by Four Stone Walls.

Great post Four Stone Walls and great story. Did you ever meet Syd?

Jesus Dagger, could you have asked a more predictable question?! ;-)

Somebody get these punks off my lawn!

Interesting discussion, and thanks Four Stone Walls for explaining the relation of Quadrophenia and The Wall to the punk movement. I never though those links this this way. And I think you are spot on.

But of Stones 'punk' songs - I think the most evident one is not mentioned yet: "Street Fighting Man" - it has the social or political 'message' quite related to and to be continued with "Anarchy In the UK" - and even musically, it has the 'fvck off attitude of playing dirty and simple, with aggression and attitude, Amd it has true connection to actual punk: it was the song that inspired Joe Strummer to play music.

Even though I agree a great deal with Four Stone Walls's attempt to distinguish the 'happy' and positive 60's from the nihilism of the late 70's, I think The Stones were an expection in many sense. They weren't so shiny happy people, and many of their lyrics - and music over-all - expressed quite nihilistic, aggressive and nasty features. nd as known, their experiments with hippie idealism or flower power or psychedelia never quite worked - the band was way too dark to suit to those premises. Just think the message of "Satisfaction", "Paint It Black", "Get Off of My Cloud". Part of their image was that 'rebel', anti-establisshment, anti-anything 'nice', and not perhaps very much optimism or idealism involved but more like: don't care a shit. Even compared to the Who whose attempt to express the sentiments of the kids was a bit too manufactured to really sound convincing ("My Generation"), the Stones were more "punk" by neglecting the attempt to try to say something in the name of whole 'generation' by restricting view into subjective, personal matters, based on one individual perspective, perhaps thereby managing better in expressing the angst of youth - to this day "Satisfaction" works over "My Generation". Even in that famous pissing incident there was something the punks I think would a decade later find attractive...

In a way I think the Stones were a first punk band in spirit or a godfather of that movement. The punks just took few features from them and went with those much much further. Especially Sex Pistols.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-21 19:05 by Doxa.

keith said about the sex pistols 'we pissed on the garage, they puked in the airport"

Punk sucks

Maybe Rocks Off led to Dolls Trash which led to Blitzkrieg Bop then Pistols and Clash thought they invited Punk, but Stones is in the chain...

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