A lot of modern stuff is coined R&B – see Mariah Carrey and Beyoncé for instance. But it has little or nothing to do with was called Rhythm & Blues in the sixties, which was also dubbed R&B.

My main point is not bashing this modern R&B, but to notice that the beat, the structure etc. of the modern R&B differs so much from music of Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye and their likes that is a sort of rip off of the music industry to use the same word for both.

I don't like especially modern R&B, which, in my opinion, is a kind of mix of rap or hip hop (for the beat) and mellow sentimental tune over using A Cappella voices. However, it has bettered a little bit, and some bitter-tuned, strings-like effects of modern R&B can sound nice because of their chilly sound.

I give it that, but I wonder if it is real strings, or just a tricky keyboard sounding like violins. This is not new: back in the seventies, the violin players working as session men threatened to stop working because of record companies using more and more synthesizer instead of fiddles. No need to say, they did not succeed.

Comments?

The only modern "R&B" artists I care for are D'Angelo & Sade. I have no problem with most new stuff they call "R&B" being termed as such, it is R&B; it is not Soul. R&B is not dead, my friend, but Soul is.

I take more exception to most modern music that's referred to as "Rock n Roll". A good deal of it may indeed be "Rock", but it is completely devoid of "Roll", and shouldn't be called RnR.

Soul isn't completely dead. Check out Eli "Paperboy" Reed and The True Loves and Sharon Jones and The Dap Kings. I've got a new band together playing 60's soul here in Orlando and the initial response has been great.

These labels are always a bit difficult...

To me, the ultimate example of (old) R&B was Bo Diddley, but if you asked him what his music was called he'd tell you "Rock 'n' Roll!!!"

Go get some old Stax, Motown, and Atlantic sides and ferget this new sh&t.

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Elmo Lewis
Go get some old Stax, Motown, and Atlantic sides and ferget this new sh&t.

Do it,

and if you got some money left,do you a favour and buy "What It Is !".
It´s a 4 disc Rhino CD release with "Funky Soul and Rare Grooves" .
From the period 1967 - 1977 it´s including about 90 tracks released by Atlantic.
Most of it are sensational good,with a track by Ananda Shankar: Jumping
Jack Flash.

Hey Elmo ...or anybody else who knows ...

It seems to me that Atlantic Records put out something like
top soul hits of late 60's or something like that.

Do you know the actual title of this?
I can't seem to find it ....

Thanks

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

The one thing you don't say about today's 'R&B' (which I think SUCKS or is more along the lines of what I'm going to say) is that it's just MOANING. It's all fancy over-produced smarmy crap with way too much moaning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-19 17:33 by skipstone.

Quote
The Joker
A lot of modern stuff is coined R&B – see Mariah Carrey and Beyoncé for instance. But it has little or nothing to do with was called Rhythm & Blues in the sixties, which was also dubbed R&B.

Comments?

I agree . I really Like the old R&B and I find it annoying that music coming out today is Called R&B. Its like its been hi-jacked. Its the same thing Elmo Lewis described when he was talking about modern country music in the Eclectic Music thread.

marvpeck, my Georgia drummming friend, I think it's called Atlantic Soul or something like that.

Rockman can prolly tell ya.

There was like a 10 CD set, then a more affordable deal (kinda like with Stax) for us common folk.

It's gotta have Aretha, Wilson, etc. on it - maybe a lot of Tom Dowd produced stuff - and should be great!

Quote
polythene sam
Soul isn't completely dead. Check out Eli "Paperboy" Reed and The True Loves

they're brilliant - and well worth investigating, if you're not familiar
with their stuff.

I have no idea why they call that crap today R&B. That's got nothing to do with Rhythm and Blues. R&B as we all like it is commercially dead since centuries ...

Today's so called R&B I would name rhythm and shit

The contemporary usage of R n B is a record industry euphemism for black pop music. Sometimes also coyly referred to as 'urban'. I guess it's all about marketing to racial groups. Quite ugly in a sense but no doubt profitable.

Thanks Elmo!
I knew you would know....
But wow...it's listed for like $80 bucks!.....

Wish I had another birthday coming up.....no wait, that doesn't make sense.
I think this blast of cold weather has frozen my brain!

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

The old-style RnB, which somebody in this thread also called Atlantic soul (e.g. Aretha, etc.), was urban music back then. The thing with today's urban music is basically the same than the thing of urban music of the late 80s/early 90s: it's got a different aesthetic of sound due to musical and vocal arrangement.
In the 80s, when you wanted to sound rich and wealthy, people used the most expensive electronic keyboard of the day on their recordings - as a strings substitute, as a piano substitute and as a rhythm machine / drums substitute. Bling and clap trap did go well together. As those keyboards got cheaper and cheaper quickly, so did the music made with them get dated quickly, and RnB went looking for a new backing track. People couldn't go back to aesthetics of funk and soul a-k-a of the 70s or 60s because that was perceived as either old style or dated.
A new generation of singers came up in the mid-90s, who were artistically related to hip hop producers, who not coincidentally, also produced them. That's why current urban music got hip hop beats.
I don't like the exaggerated wails that some of those singers put on their records, but I guess it's just as well related to the hip hop aesthetic in which the MC, the rapper if you like, wants to show off his rhyming skills. So I interpret the wailing singing style as kind of a way for a singer to show off their ability. So the current RnB style of singing may be interpreted as more of a result of a power struggle of rapper VS singer in hip hop, rather than a direct continuation of RnB/soul singing styles of old, which still existed on record in the early 90s, but groups like Boys II Men sang over keyboard tracks that sound cheap for today's listeners.

Only very seldomly is a real full orchestra still being heard on a pop record, or even an RnB record, probably because of the cost, but a modern day "River Deep Mountain High" would be priceless nevertheless.

I love the old stuff, but I try to keep an open mind. IMO,the last time there was at least some decent R&B music coming out was some time around the mid 90's.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-19 20:38 by ryanpow.

Quote
marvpeck
Thanks Elmo!
I knew you would know....
But wow...it's listed for like $80 bucks!.....

Wish I had another birthday coming up.....no wait, that doesn't make sense.
I think this blast of cold weather has frozen my brain!

It would be a great Christmas gift if somebody really loves ya.

"No Anchovies, Please"