Guitar Players - I would like your opinion on this guitar. Guitar Ctr and Musicians Friend have offered this mohagany Les Paul for several years. The price was US$ 500-600 a few years back and is now $800-900. There are also usually some used ones on EBAY.

Are the components in these guitars reliable? My son wants a Les Paul but he has limited funds and I want to make sure he gets something that will last. It will mostly be used at home. Link below is to Musician's Friend listing.

Let me know if you think this is worth the money.

[guitars.musiciansfriend.com]

I never played one, but I could imagine it sounds fairly muddy and soupy. A Les Paul uses the maple cap to bring in the tightness and treble, and in the case of the LP Custom with its mahogony body it's the ebony fretboard bringing in the snap and treble. But a Custom does sound a tad less focussed than a Standard. Of course, if this is your preference its a good thing.

Mathijs

In my opinion recent LP's are NOT what you want to be looking for, especially not for that kind of money. They're worth maybe half. If your son wants it for the looks, get an Epiphone. If he wants it for the sound, go to a guitar shop and try out some other guitars like PRS.. Gibson haven't taken their guitar production truly serious for the last 15 years.

Simon
myspace.com/koningsimon

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Mathijs
I never played one, but I could imagine it sounds fairly muddy and soupy. A Les Paul uses the maple cap to bring in the tightness and treble, and in the case of the LP Custom with its mahogony body it's the ebony fretboard bringing in the snap and treble. But a Custom does sound a tad less focussed than a Standard. Of course, if this is your preference its a good thing.

Mathijs

the only thing different a Custom has from a stamdard (white binding,block inlays, cosmetics etc aside) is that the Custom has an Ebony fingerboard. Les Paul says so.

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More Hot Rocks

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Mathijs
I never played one, but I could imagine it sounds fairly muddy and soupy. A Les Paul uses the maple cap to bring in the tightness and treble, and in the case of the LP Custom with its mahogony body it's the ebony fretboard bringing in the snap and treble. But a Custom does sound a tad less focussed than a Standard. Of course, if this is your preference its a good thing.

Mathijs

the only thing different a Custom has from a stamdard (white binding,block inlays, cosmetics etc aside) is that the Custom has an Ebony fingerboard. Les Paul says so.

Then Les Paul is wrong. A Standard has a maple cap on top of a mahogany slab body while a Custom has a mahogany cap on top of the mahogany slab body.

Mathijs

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Crackinup
Guitar Players - I would like your opinion on this guitar. Guitar Ctr and Musicians Friend have offered this mohagany Les Paul for several years. The price was US$ 500-600 a few years back and is now $800-900. There are also usually some used ones on EBAY.

Are the components in these guitars reliable? My son wants a Les Paul but he has limited funds and I want to make sure he gets something that will last. It will mostly be used at home. Link below is to Musician's Friend listing.

Let me know if you think this is worth the money.

[guitars.musiciansfriend.com]

Keep in mind that Gibson guitars are rather xpensive compared to their usability/quality.
There is much nostalgia involved..
I would advice you to take your time and look arround and try an Ibanez or Yamaha:
Less weight,flat neck en more transparant sound.Just my experience."More guitar" for us$ 800.

The modern day customs have a maple cap, which is actually what Les Paul wanted, but the vintage 1954? - 1961 customs have a one piece mahogany body as Gibson chose to do that despite lp's request.

The historic 57 reissue is all mahogany mimicking the original 50's customs, but the 68 reissue is a maple cap, like the actual 68's. The modern day custom, as I said above, has a maple cap too.

...

Anyway, the guitar linked to gets good praise at the les paul forum and I think it would make for a great work horse guitar that will hold some value due to having the gibson name on it.

[guitars.musiciansfriend.com]

If resale value isn't a concern, but quality is, then seek out the les paul copies by edwards, the best guitars for the buck on the go it seems.

If possible see if you can try a gibson or edwards or something similar out and see how your son feels about it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-13 23:56 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
The standard issue customs have a maple cap, which is actually what Les Paul wanted, but the vintage 1954? - 1961 customs have a one piece mahogany body as Gibson chose to do that despite lp's request.

The historic 57 reissue is all mahogany mimicking the original 50's customs, but the 68 reissue is a maple cap, like the actual 68's.

...

Anyway, the guitar linked to gets good praise at the les paul forum and I think it would make for a great work horse guitar that will hold some value due to having the gibson name on it.

[guitars.musiciansfriend.com]

If resale value isn't a concern, but quality is, then seek out the les paul copies by edwards, the best guitars for the buck on the go it seems.

If possible see if you can try a gibson or edwards or something similar out and see how your son feels about it?

Edwards guitars are great! Here´s mine, if it reminds you of a certain guitar, you´re right, it is supposed too....:



Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

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His Majesty
The modern day customs have a maple cap, which is actually what Les Paul wanted, but the vintage 1954? - 1961 customs have a one piece mahogany body as Gibson chose to do that despite lp's request.

The historic 57 reissue is all mahogany mimicking the original 50's customs, but the 68 reissue is a maple cap, like the actual 68's. The modern day custom, as I said above, has a maple cap too.

...

Anyway, the guitar linked to gets good praise at the les paul forum and I think it would make for a great work horse guitar that will hold some value due to having the gibson name on it.

[guitars.musiciansfriend.com]

If resale value isn't a concern, but quality is, then seek out the les paul copies by edwards, the best guitars for the buck on the go it seems.

If possible see if you can try a gibson or edwards or something similar out and see how your son feels about it?

Told You Mathijs. your not gonna go on about The Martins again are you?

No way. I don’t care about what Gibson does to make production cheaper. In my book a Les Paul Custom is all mahogany, why else would I buy a Custom! When the Custom was brought back in ’68 they gave it a maple cap, but that’s just wasn’t a Custom, just as the Standard with mini-buckers isn’t a Standard.

A LP with maple top is a Standard, no matter what finish they give it –black, gold, white etc, and no matter what name Gibson tags it. The same with weight relieving: a Les Paul is not weight relieved in my book. I stick to ‘50’s specs, hence I am only interested in genuine ‘50’s specs still produced today by the Custom Shop. And to add: the Custom with maple top is now called “Classic Custom” by Gibson, and original Custom’s are now only produced in the Custom Shop according to vintage specs –thus with mahogany top.

Btw, original ‘50’s Custom's weren't one piece; they have a glued-on mahogany top. And, the maple cap wasn’t the idea of Les Paul: Les Paul wanted all mahogany, but Gibson thought it was too heavy and difficult to carve as they had more experience with maple and spruce tops (according to Tony Bacon).

Concerning the quality of Gibson Les Paul's: I think modern day Les Paul's are as good as it gets for a modern day Les Paul, with Custom Shop Les Paul’s rivaling the ‘50’s production. It still is valid: if you want that Les Paul tone, you must buy a genuine Les Paul. There’s loads of very good guitars out there for much les money, but of you want that classic model with the classic high quality tone woods, excellent hard ware and nitrocellulose lacquer: only a Gibson is good enough.

Mathijs

Everything I've just read shows that the LP Custom was reintroduced in 1968 with a maple top.

Tried the "vintage" Les Paul recently. I felt I was slicing my fingers on the sharp-edged frets. The neck was a little too chunky for me as well. But, while some reviewers think the sound is muddy despite the "bright" pick ups, I did not notice this at store-level volumes. A number of reviewers of various Gibsons complain about production quality being variable. Experienced guitar buyers generally recommend trying the guitar you are going to buy, especially with the amp you expect to use. Still, some report happy experiences with mail order, and MF says it charges 2.5% to return a guitar. (It is possible that GC brick stores do not provide the hard shell case that MF does, but don't be afraid to negotiate in that regard.)

As for reliability, you should check the reviews from actual owners at Harmony-Central. As I indicated above, reviewers think Gibson's production quality is variable.

You'll get various recommendations for Les Paul copies, whether Tokais (made in Japan, but the Les Paul forums report fakes on eBay), Heritage or others. The Heritage models are made in an old Gibson plant and often sell at considerable discounts on eBay (but make sure it is returnable if you go this route--I've been disappointed with an eBay guitar purchase).

All that being said, I think it is a bit overpriced (though a fine guitar) at that price point, assuming you want a new one, don't mind the stripped down appearance and must have a Les Paul model. (As far as the price point is concerned, GC and MF seem to further discount Gibsons every few months. This guitar was 15% off last weekend at MF. And First Quality Music sometimes has the guitar for a little less.) A used one for a lot less will provide more "value" but again you should either try it beforehand or make sure it is returnable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-14 05:56 by Smokey.

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Mathijs


Btw, original ‘50’s Custom's weren't one piece; they have a glued-on mahogany top. And, the maple cap wasn’t the idea of Les Paul: Les Paul wanted all mahogany, but Gibson thought it was too heavy and difficult to carve as they had more experience with maple and spruce tops (according to Tony Bacon).

I don't want to argue, but all of the bodies of original 50's customs are one piece of mahogany. The reissues have a mahogany cap, but 110% for sure the originals up to the very last lp shaped customs made in 1961 were one piece.

Les didn't like the custom due to it being all mahogany, he wanted a mahogany back with a maple top, but for some reason Gibson made them one piece of mahogany. They also ignored some of his designs/requests when they made the first les pauls.

According to Tony Bacon’s 50 Years of the Gibson Les Paul and ”The Beauty of the 'Burst” by Yasuhiko Iwanade, Gibson had a special machine that could bend and carve tops, which then could be glued on top of a slab body. They don't refer to the custom as being one-piece all solid, but I take your word for it. The "The Pauls" of the '70's and '80's also were solid and with a carved top.

Les Paul wanted the Standard to be all mahogany and the Custom to have a maple top, but Ted McCarty wanted a guitar that Fender was not able to build, so he choose for the maple top on the Standard.

Also according to Bacon: Les Paul's only involvement in the design of the guitar was the trapeze tail piece, nothing more.

Mathijs
ps Does this mean that the Custom Shop '57 Custom actually is not vintage correct?

Tokai Love Rock are also very good value for the money. I believe their resale value is also good (at least here in Australia they are sought after by those that suffer guitar acquisition syndrome).
Les Paul Customs are lovely anyway (I have one) but they are damn heavy.

i have a original 1971 gibson black beauty custom built les paul custom with a 58 spec (baseball bat)thick neck,with a threepiece maple top,with documents from gibson in kalamazoo michigan where they were before they moved solidbody operation to nashville .this was my first ever guitar that i bought as a young lad.

Another option could be the Gibson Les Paul Melody Maker, the one I have sounds great. A real Gibson, made in Nashville, and they sell for around $400. Link: [guitars.musiciansfriend.com]

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Mathijs

ps Does this mean that the Custom Shop '57 Custom actually is not vintage correct?

Yup, they have a mahogany cap and also the tailpiece is in the wrong position, the last 3 fretboard markers should be the same size etc etc.

The entire Historic series has various issues regarding authenticity. Personally, I don't really care about that so long as it's close enough and the guitar sounds good and is nice to play.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-14 16:01 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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Mathijs

ps Does this mean that the Custom Shop '57 Custom actually is not vintage correct?

Yup, they have a mahogany cap and also the tailpiece is in the wrong position, the last 3 fretboard markers should be the same size etc etc.

The entire Historic series has various issues regarding authenticity. Personally, I don't really care about that so long as it's close enough and the guitar sounds good and is nice to play.

I knew about the tailpiece and fretboard markers (read it on the LP Forum), but I've always assumed that the mahogany cap was vintage correct.

Personally I also don't care -my '59 is just an encredible guitar. I played an original '59 and '60, and besides the (absolute) wow-factor of holding such an expensive guitar there wasn't much to justify the price tag compared to the historic reissue. The only thing that I considered much better were the pickups -they sounded much sweeter than any current paf pickup.

Mathijs

I have to agree Mathijs. Though many purists would disagree, the new historics come pretty close in sound to originals, especially if you replace the stock pots and caps with something close to the originals; .022uf caps and 500K audio taper pots, which many earlier historics didn't have. I put in a vintage style tone/volume control and the guitar (a '98 R8) sounded liked I always wanted; the tone Mick Taylor gets during his solo on John Mayall's "The Bear" from "Blues from Laurel Canyon"

Anyway, this thread has very very much digressed. Crakinup, I have played one of these guitars and it played well and sounded pretty good and the control's were fairly responsive. If you can find one at price that is affordable to you, then give it a go and may your son rock most excellently!

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ChrisM
I have to agree Mathijs. Though many purists would disagree, the new historics come pretty close in sound to originals, especially if you replace the stock pots and caps with something close to the originals; .022uf caps and 500K audio taper pots, which many earlier historics didn't have. I put in a vintage style tone/volume control and the guitar (a '98 R8) sounded liked I always wanted; the tone Mick Taylor gets during his solo on John Mayall's "The Bear" from "Blues from Laurel Canyon"

Absolutely true. I would also add that the original '50's wiring helps a lot. If you turn down the volume a bit you get that vintage "quak" in your tone, like it's just a bit out of phase, like Taylor had on the '72 and '73 tour.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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ChrisM
I have to agree Mathijs. Though many purists would disagree, the new historics come pretty close in sound to originals, especially if you replace the stock pots and caps with something close to the originals; .022uf caps and 500K audio taper pots, which many earlier historics didn't have. I put in a vintage style tone/volume control and the guitar (a '98 R8) sounded liked I always wanted; the tone Mick Taylor gets during his solo on John Mayall's "The Bear" from "Blues from Laurel Canyon"

Absolutely true. I would also add that the original '50's wiring helps a lot. If you turn down the volume a bit you get that vintage "quak" in your tone, like it's just a bit out of phase, like Taylor had on the '72 and '73 tour.

Mathijs

Yup, that's how mine is wired and the controls are much more responsive than with so called modern wiring. I don;t know why Gibson abandoned it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-18 00:51 by ChrisM.

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ChrisM
I have to agree Mathijs. Though many purists would disagree, the new historics come pretty close in sound to originals, especially if you replace the stock pots and caps with something close to the originals; .022uf caps and 500K audio taper pots, which many earlier historics didn't have. I put in a vintage style tone/volume control and the guitar (a '98 R8) sounded liked I always wanted; the tone Mick Taylor gets during his solo on John Mayall's "The Bear" from "Blues from Laurel Canyon"

Since the hijack is almost complete, may I ask:
1. where you obtained the components (RS Guitarworks?)
2. whether the "tone control" is something different from the "pots"?
3. whether you have instructions for making this fix?

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Smokey

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ChrisM
I have to agree Mathijs. Though many purists would disagree, the new historics come pretty close in sound to originals, especially if you replace the stock pots and caps with something close to the originals; .022uf caps and 500K audio taper pots, which many earlier historics didn't have. I put in a vintage style tone/volume control and the guitar (a '98 R8) sounded liked I always wanted; the tone Mick Taylor gets during his solo on John Mayall's "The Bear" from "Blues from Laurel Canyon"

Since the hijack is almost complete, may I ask:
1. where you obtained the components (RS Guitarworks?)
2. whether the "tone control" is something different from the "pots"?
3. whether you have instructions for making this fix?

With apologies to Crackinup, you are correct Smokey. But at least I did give my tuppence about the guitar he was asking after. Anyway, to your questions:

1. where you obtained the components (RS Guitarworks?)
Yes, from RS Guitarworks, but there are a few other quality vendors; Dr. Vintage is one that comes to mind.
2. whether the "tone control" is something different from the "pots"?
Both the tone and volume controls are made up of "pots", short for potentiometer, and caps, short for capictor. The comination of the two allows to change signal strength (volume) and high and low frequencies (tone)
3. whether you have instructions for making this fix? Do you mean the 50's style wiring? If so I have a diagram I can send you. (e-mail me) Installing a new set of controls is fairly simple, you just need a wrench, a good solder iron, solder and some patience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-11-18 00:54 by ChrisM.

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ChrisM

With apologies to Crackinup, you are correct Smokey. But at least I did give my tuppence about the guitar he was asking after.

Thanks, Chris. I've emailed you separately.

I meant no slight about the hijack. We both responded, but received no further response. In that case, it seems fine to continue the hijack, since the original poster gets a bump of his thread. It's like a public service.

You've got mail Smokey. No slight taken!

I don't consider this thread hi-jacked. I'm enjoying the discussion and appreciate the imput from those who've contributed. I got busy for a few days at work and didn't have enough time for important stuff like this.

We went to a few stores and played several different types of guitars, but my son ended up buying a used Gibson similar to the one I inquired about. It's in good shape and sounds great, plus he really wanted the Gibson name.

Great to hear Crackin up. May your son go forth and rock!

Take a look at the HAGSTROM SUPER SWEDE. Good guitar at a very good price!

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aprilfool
Take a look at the HAGSTROM SUPER SWEDE. Good guitar at a very good price!

too late, they bought one already