Tell Me :
Talk
Ooh, that sounds kinky. Alright, I’m putting on my safety goggles and goin’ down on that closing riff tonight. I hope it's not a letdown.
Yeah, Thief is the go to ballad on the album.
I think you can track the demise of the Mick ballad starting with Almost Here You Sigh, which I really like...but started him down a path...Out of Tears the next on that path. OK but not where I like this going, to Already Over Me and Always Suffering, hoping that would be the nadir of this dark path, but then leading to Streets of Love, rock bottom.
Mercifully Mick's resurfaced...Depending on You, SSoH, Dreamy Skies, Driving Me Too Hard. Awesome.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-07 19:10 by treaclefingers.
Right! Slipped my mind...so Mick finding his feet again.
But isn’t ’Almost Hear You Sigh’ a Keith composition? Or, are you talking specifically about Mick’s delivery? I sort-of agree with you, if so. Out of Tears and Always Suffering are very dirge-like and somewhat boring.
LOL Too Tough. Too Tight. Easy one to confuse. Might be the only Stones songs where two titles are different by only two letters!
The Stones should've gotten Tom Rothrock. His work with RL was old skool and new skool and what he did with his tracks for making COME ON IN is fantastic. It reveals how pedestrian Juiced is.
It seems that Mick's direction for Juiced was that The Dust Brothers copy his demo.
Initially, Mick expressed an interest in working with us. He knew the Beck record (Odelay) and Paul's Boutique, and he asked if we'd ever recorded a band before. We'd worked with a number of bands over the years, so we sent him a tape of some stuff. He was still interested in working with us. He asked us if we could come down to New York to meet with him. We sat down with him and talked for about 20 minutes, just philosophically, about music in general. Then Mick said, Oh, this is all nonsense. Let me just play you some stuff. He'd really done his homework. The first songs he'd chosen to play for us were right up our alley. The demos sounded like we'd already worked on them. They were very funky, with these very dusty, old-sounding drum tracks.
- Mike Simpson (of the Dust Brothers), 1997
Juiced sounds flat. Keith's point sums it up:
Actually, I had very little to do with (the Dust Brothers). I'm like, What do you want me to do? And they're like, Oh, just do what you always do. I'm thinking, That's PRODUCING?
- Keith Richards, September 1997
Perhaps the biggest reason it's so boring is it's so slow. Take away the keyboards and it sounds like the Rolling Stones yawning out a blues song. The upbeat Beck and RL Burnside songs are moving, with looping and the occasional dub. Saint Of Me and Anybody Seen are much better.
[timeisonourside.com]
BRIDGES is an extremely interesting Stones album though. From the thumping roll and tearing guitar of Flip The Switch right into the sneaky swagger of ASMB? to the clanging and dissonant Low Down, which continues the Wicked As It Seems/Love Is Strong channel, it's certainly a much more clearer sounding album than VOODOO. Despite not caring for the two A ballads and the very strange Gunface and Juiced, there's a lot going on.
Heard some Duke Ellington on WWOZ recently and heard why so many people are inspired by him. It made How Can I Stop that more poignant, especially the ending, especially given Keith's surprise:
(O)n this record there was no question: it had to be the last song. And Charlie WOULDN'T stop. It was the last song we recorded in L.A., and we got Wayne Shorter in to play over the ending.
Well it's cut just like old soul records, you know. It's sort of Chi-lites and Stylistics and that whole thing. The way you make those kind of songs that sound right is about the band being very suppressed but a lot of energy inside it. It's almost as if something is about to burst, which it does at the end, you know, and that was another Charlie Watts feature (laughs).
It's got Wayne Shorter playing on it, for Christ's sake.
[timeisonourside.com]
Might as well get juiced, spit right down on everyone! Not boring, drums are great, powerful bass. The most modern song on the album. For me, one of the most memorable tracks off of B2B.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-07 22:33 by skytrench.
Having a wavering synth, slow lumpy cymbal laden drums and powerful bass on a track doesn't make something the most modern song. The 3 Dust Brothers produced tunes on the album (two were left off) are the most modern tracks in regard to what the Dust Brothers did. All three involve drum loops and Charlie samples as well as some live to tape sections of the songs.
Saint Of Me sounds to be the most produced track. In regard to what they do they're the cleanest (least effected) sounding songs of anyone I've ever heard them produce.
What are you listening to BTB with, your phone? According to Don Was 95% of the album (not sure how one can claim 5% isn't) is the band playing live.
It's obvious with Flip The Switch, Low Down, Out Of Control and Too Tight.
Keith basically went in and cut the tracks like he did in the old days. I mean, he got the band together and worked up the songs. He sang them when we cut them and then Mick would sing them later. And then Mick would be working on some stuff with the Dust Brothers, for example, in the other studio.
- Rob Fraboni, 1997
MAWGJ is not liked by many. Here's a site, with a nice add by Negative, that says something similar in particular about how it doesn't sound like much but a lot more than I have about how bad MAWGJ is, especially the last bit:
“MIGHT AS WELL GET JUICED,” (BRIDGES TO BABYLON, 1997): Bridges to bullshit, is more like it. Stung, perhaps, by complaints of easy classicism that dogged the earlier Voodoo Lounge, the Rolling Stones brought in some hipster elements to the follow up. That meant samples, a hip-hop guest star and several tracks — including this techno-flop — produced by the Dust Brothers, a then-white hot producing crew.
It worked just as well as nicking from the Beatles had thirty years earlier. Nothing about the Stones fits into this world, either. And quite frankly the Dust Brothers appeared to have lost something in the interim between Bridges and Beck’s Odelay, not to mention earlier triumphs like the Beastie Boys’ Paul’s Boutique. Their generically electronic backing track here is somehow both relentless and largely featureless.
As Jagger shamelessly preens, “Might as Well Get Juiced” unfolds as an overlong, unfocused and unconvincing mishap — this utterly bloodless evacuation of everything that once made the Rolling Stones dangerous. Instead, they sound like con artists.
[somethingelsereviews.com]
To me the albums lacks 'live' tension, danger, fluctuations. It's clean, no amp hum, hiss, rumbling etc. Perfect separation. I don't hear weaving between the guitarists as in a live situation. For all we know, Keith layed down some live tracks that were overdubbed and most original instrument tracks did not make the final mix. Don's claim is hard to fathom.
I'm talking about the whole package, but yeah, as I said I actually like AHYS so it makes sense that maybe the difference is that it originated with Keith.
Recording technology improved between 1993/94 and 1996/97.
Why wouldn't the "original instrument tracks"... WTF are you on about?
Another: one can't record live tracks that are overdubbed. That's beyond ridiculous.
You obviously have zero concept of how a recording studio works.
Look at the credits: the Don Was and or Rob Fraboni produced tracks are the band live in the studio.
Not sure where you get amp hum, hiss or rumbling from.
You don't "hear weaving between the guitarists as in a live situation".
It's the studio - and who knows.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-10 22:13 by GasLightStreet.
Bill Wyman said that, obviously during his career, DIRTY WORK had the most reels of tape ever for a Stones album, 242.
BTB was recorded on 2" inch 24 track analog tape. Hundreds of reels of tape, with the band performing live in the same room as usual except for Saint, Low Down and Juiced.
Why BRIDGES doesn't have the push/pull you mention is because
- it's not 1977 Stones, it's 1997 Stones.
- mixing determines who is heard
WHAT!!??
There's something like 8 guitar tracks! It sounds like he's all over the track!
All the licks in standard and open G stuff is Keith. But you can hear Ronnie, if you listen really good.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
john r
()
Date: October 10, 2008 21:13
I agree with JJ Kent. Very few artists would try experimenting with the mid to late 90s trends, hire Danny Saber Dust bros etc, and STILL sound EXACTLY like themselves, thus less dated than say Bowie's late 90s albums or that U2 album from the period. Techno production yet Charlie (and his splashy cymbals!) more upfront and crucial to the tracks than ever? Even the less inspired tracks - 'Anybody Seen My Baby', the 2 Jagger ballads - keep my interest with musical details, a good groove, or nice couplet here or there ('...closer to ethereal / with a kind of down to earth / flavour"). And the songs like 'Lowdown' and 'Too Tough' just roar or (TT) soar musically. There's lots of interesting tension between the band's strong, engaged, creative presence, and the influence of various mixers/producers, but it usually works. "Juiced" is as accurate a description of its subject, factual and unecumbered, as I can imagine, and the techno/blues experiment works better than say much of RL Burnside's 'contemporary' attempts. Abd I can't say enough about the stunning 'How Can I Stop'...But from the opener Flip The Switch - lyrically slight, it rocks hard, and check that standup bass and baritone sax just to mention two inspired details there! - through the slinky rhodes piano, low key hornlines, relaxed Memphis groove of "Thief" it's 80 - 90% pure pleasure. The experimental intent and all those great bassists, guest shots (Preston on 'Saint') may be the total opposite approach from the just-the-band feel of ABB, but Jagger really scores lyrically on enough make B2B feel cohesice and structured intelligently, so it builds and resonates. As for 'Thru & Thru', well the lyrics are perfect for the song, ambiguous and yet richly evocative abd mysterious. At least these good-to-excellent RS albums don't merely seem like pale rehashes of 'classic era', but take chances. And what's wrong with 'Gomper' which I love, or 'Lantern'?!? Heck the only weak one there is the 'Sing this all Together' sections; recently the only Stones tracks that I really dislike are Streets of Love - too calculated, not enough musical interest, bombastic (a rare song Stones song that's really overblown). Elsewhere Mick sounds rather arch, & has trouble connectiong with the words on "Laugh I Nearly Died,' but most of the 18 songs from ABB sound just fine to me. And BTW I still love the effortless, throwaway soul groove 'Keys To Your Heart' even when Mick uses the word PIN! (as in personal identification number or whatever).
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
baxlap
()
Date: October 11, 2008 11:34
Never liked Always Suffering. After a few spins of B2B, I'd reduce the album to about eight tracks. I'd always skip that one, Anybody Seen My Baby, and a few others.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
MadMetaphoricalMax
()
Date: May 6, 2025 19:37
Picking up this slender thread 17 years later ....
Always Suffering has become one of my favourites of B2B, along with the two closers from Keith. I love Keith's guitar work, the solo and especially the beautiful and melancholy new riff he drops in right at the end, about five seconds of it, heading in the fade, Charlie really walloping the drums. I love the idea of him on backing vocals.... I have to turn the fade right up to 11 to get a much of that closing riff as I can.
Always Suffering has become one of my favourites of B2B, along with the two closers from Keith. I love Keith's guitar work, the solo and especially the beautiful and melancholy new riff he drops in right at the end, about five seconds of it, heading in the fade, Charlie really walloping the drums. I love the idea of him on backing vocals.... I have to turn the fade right up to 11 to get a much of that closing riff as I can.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: May 6, 2025 22:27
I consider it an excellent track! Beautiful guitars, great singing by Mick. And Darryl Jones shines a bit here, imo.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 6, 2025 22:40
I don't think I can tell "Always Suffering" and "Already Over Me" apart, and will leave it at "Always Suffering" is how I feel when I listen to these two, which is exceptionally rare.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: May 6, 2025 22:56
The verses are beautiful; lyrics and music.
It is the chorus that ruins it for me. It doesn't tie in at all with the song lyrically. Musically it is almost every Jagger ballad of late, Already over me/Blinded by rainbows/Don't call me up/Don't tear me up/
It is the chorus that ruins it for me. It doesn't tie in at all with the song lyrically. Musically it is almost every Jagger ballad of late, Already over me/Blinded by rainbows/Don't call me up/Don't tear me up/
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 7, 2025 09:27
Mick's delivery lays this one to waste and bordering upon unlistenable.
Already Over Me isn't much better.
Not a good album for ballads... with Mick singing, anyway.
Already Over Me isn't much better.
Not a good album for ballads... with Mick singing, anyway.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
Swayed1967
()
Date: May 7, 2025 18:37
Quote
MadMetaphoricalMax
Picking up this slender thread 17 years later ....
Always Suffering has become one of my favourites of B2B, along with the two closers from Keith. I love Keith's guitar work, the solo and especially the beautiful and melancholy new riff he drops in right at the end, about five seconds of it, heading in the fade, Charlie really walloping the drums. I love the idea of him on backing vocals.... I have to turn the fade right up to 11 to get a much of that closing riff as I can.
Ooh, that sounds kinky. Alright, I’m putting on my safety goggles and goin’ down on that closing riff tonight. I hope it's not a letdown.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 7, 2025 19:06
Quote
GasLightStreet
Mick's delivery lays this one to waste and bordering upon unlistenable.
Already Over Me isn't much better.
Not a good album for ballads... with Mick singing, anyway.
Yeah, Thief is the go to ballad on the album.
I think you can track the demise of the Mick ballad starting with Almost Here You Sigh, which I really like...but started him down a path...Out of Tears the next on that path. OK but not where I like this going, to Already Over Me and Always Suffering, hoping that would be the nadir of this dark path, but then leading to Streets of Love, rock bottom.
Mercifully Mick's resurfaced...Depending on You, SSoH, Dreamy Skies, Driving Me Too Hard. Awesome.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-07 19:10 by treaclefingers.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 7, 2025 19:41
Laugh, I Nearly Died is the exception from the rule, right? 
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 7, 2025 19:58
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Laugh, I Nearly Died is the exception from the rule, right?
Right! Slipped my mind...so Mick finding his feet again.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: May 7, 2025 20:24
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
GasLightStreet
Mick's delivery lays this one to waste and bordering upon unlistenable.
Already Over Me isn't much better.
Not a good album for ballads... with Mick singing, anyway.
Yeah, Thief is the go to ballad on the album.
I think you can track the demise of the Mick ballad starting with Almost Here You Sigh, which I really like...but started him down a path...Out of Tears the next on that path. OK but not where I like this going, to Already Over Me and Always Suffering, hoping that would be the nadir of this dark path, but then leading to Streets of Love, rock bottom.
Mercifully Mick's resurfaced...Depending on You, SSoH, Dreamy Skies, Driving Me Too Hard. Awesome.
But isn’t ’Almost Hear You Sigh’ a Keith composition? Or, are you talking specifically about Mick’s delivery? I sort-of agree with you, if so. Out of Tears and Always Suffering are very dirge-like and somewhat boring.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
padre69
()
Date: May 7, 2025 20:27
Quote
treaclefingersDid it start already with Hard Woman and Party Doll?Quote
GasLightStreet
I think you can track the demise of the Mick ballad starting with Almost Here You Sigh, which I really like...but started him down a path...Out of Tears the next on that path. OK but not where I like this going, to Already Over Me and Always Suffering, hoping that would be the nadir of this dark path, but then leading to Streets of Love, rock bottom.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 7, 2025 22:11
Quote
john r
I agree with JJ Kent. Very few artists would try experimenting with the mid to late 90s trends, hire Danny Saber Dust bros etc, and STILL sound EXACTLY like themselves, thus less dated than say Bowie's late 90s albums or that U2 album from the period. Techno production yet Charlie (and his splashy cymbals!) more upfront and crucial to the tracks than ever? Even the less inspired tracks - 'Anybody Seen My Baby', the 2 Jagger ballads - keep my interest with musical details, a good groove, or nice couplet here or there ('...closer to ethereal / with a kind of down to earth / flavour"). And the songs like 'Lowdown' and 'Too Tough' just roar or (TT) soar musically. There's lots of interesting tension between the band's strong, engaged, creative presence, and the influence of various mixers/producers, but it usually works. "Juiced" is as accurate a description of its subject, factual and unecumbered, as I can imagine, and the techno/blues experiment works better than say much of RL Burnside's 'contemporary' attempts. Abd I can't say enough about the stunning 'How Can I Stop'...But from the opener Flip The Switch - lyrically slight, it rocks hard, and check that standup bass and baritone sax just to mention two inspired details there! - through the slinky rhodes piano, low key hornlines, relaxed Memphis groove of "Thief" it's 80 - 90% pure pleasure. The experimental intent and all those great bassists, guest shots (Preston on 'Saint') may be the total opposite approach from the just-the-band feel of ABB, but Jagger really scores lyrically on enough make B2B feel cohesice and structured intelligently, so it builds and resonates. As for 'Thru & Thru', well the lyrics are perfect for the song, ambiguous and yet richly evocative abd mysterious. At least these good-to-excellent RS albums don't merely seem like pale rehashes of 'classic era', but take chances. And what's wrong with 'Gomper' which I love, or 'Lantern'?!? Heck the only weak one there is the 'Sing this all Together' sections; recently the only Stones tracks that I really dislike are Streets of Love - too calculated, not enough musical interest, bombastic (a rare song Stones song that's really overblown). Elsewhere Mick sounds rather arch, & has trouble connectiong with the words on "Laugh I Nearly Died,' but most of the 18 songs from ABB sound just fine to me. And BTW I still love the effortless, throwaway soul groove 'Keys To Your Heart' even when Mick uses the word PIN! (as in personal identification number or whatever).
LOL Too Tough. Too Tight. Easy one to confuse. Might be the only Stones songs where two titles are different by only two letters!
The Stones should've gotten Tom Rothrock. His work with RL was old skool and new skool and what he did with his tracks for making COME ON IN is fantastic. It reveals how pedestrian Juiced is.
It seems that Mick's direction for Juiced was that The Dust Brothers copy his demo.
Initially, Mick expressed an interest in working with us. He knew the Beck record (Odelay) and Paul's Boutique, and he asked if we'd ever recorded a band before. We'd worked with a number of bands over the years, so we sent him a tape of some stuff. He was still interested in working with us. He asked us if we could come down to New York to meet with him. We sat down with him and talked for about 20 minutes, just philosophically, about music in general. Then Mick said, Oh, this is all nonsense. Let me just play you some stuff. He'd really done his homework. The first songs he'd chosen to play for us were right up our alley. The demos sounded like we'd already worked on them. They were very funky, with these very dusty, old-sounding drum tracks.
- Mike Simpson (of the Dust Brothers), 1997
Juiced sounds flat. Keith's point sums it up:
Actually, I had very little to do with (the Dust Brothers). I'm like, What do you want me to do? And they're like, Oh, just do what you always do. I'm thinking, That's PRODUCING?
- Keith Richards, September 1997
Perhaps the biggest reason it's so boring is it's so slow. Take away the keyboards and it sounds like the Rolling Stones yawning out a blues song. The upbeat Beck and RL Burnside songs are moving, with looping and the occasional dub. Saint Of Me and Anybody Seen are much better.
[timeisonourside.com]
BRIDGES is an extremely interesting Stones album though. From the thumping roll and tearing guitar of Flip The Switch right into the sneaky swagger of ASMB? to the clanging and dissonant Low Down, which continues the Wicked As It Seems/Love Is Strong channel, it's certainly a much more clearer sounding album than VOODOO. Despite not caring for the two A ballads and the very strange Gunface and Juiced, there's a lot going on.
Heard some Duke Ellington on WWOZ recently and heard why so many people are inspired by him. It made How Can I Stop that more poignant, especially the ending, especially given Keith's surprise:
(O)n this record there was no question: it had to be the last song. And Charlie WOULDN'T stop. It was the last song we recorded in L.A., and we got Wayne Shorter in to play over the ending.
Well it's cut just like old soul records, you know. It's sort of Chi-lites and Stylistics and that whole thing. The way you make those kind of songs that sound right is about the band being very suppressed but a lot of energy inside it. It's almost as if something is about to burst, which it does at the end, you know, and that was another Charlie Watts feature (laughs).
It's got Wayne Shorter playing on it, for Christ's sake.
[timeisonourside.com]
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
skytrench
()
Date: May 7, 2025 22:27
Quote
GasLightStreet
Juiced sounds flat. Perhaps the biggest reason it's so boring is it's so slow. Take away the keyboards and it sounds like the Rolling Stones yawning out a blues song.
Might as well get juiced, spit right down on everyone! Not boring, drums are great, powerful bass. The most modern song on the album. For me, one of the most memorable tracks off of B2B.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-07 22:33 by skytrench.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: May 7, 2025 23:14
The 9:22 extended mix(laid in the shade vol. 2) is lovely
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 8, 2025 00:36
Quote
skytrenchQuote
GasLightStreet
Juiced sounds flat. Perhaps the biggest reason it's so boring is it's so slow. Take away the keyboards and it sounds like the Rolling Stones yawning out a blues song.
Might as well get juiced, spit right down on everyone! Not boring, drums are great, powerful bass. The most modern song on the album. For me, one of the most memorable tracks off of B2B.
Having a wavering synth, slow lumpy cymbal laden drums and powerful bass on a track doesn't make something the most modern song. The 3 Dust Brothers produced tunes on the album (two were left off) are the most modern tracks in regard to what the Dust Brothers did. All three involve drum loops and Charlie samples as well as some live to tape sections of the songs.
Saint Of Me sounds to be the most produced track. In regard to what they do they're the cleanest (least effected) sounding songs of anyone I've ever heard them produce.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
skytrench
()
Date: May 8, 2025 01:19
Yes, the dive bombing synth hasn't aged that well, but the basic drum/bass groove is good. Being made with drum loops gives it the modern feel, like most the radio hits these past decades. What are the other 2 unrealeased Dust Brothers tracks from B2B, I liked their work on Paul's Boutique at the time, do I dare revisit it ? In a way 'Might as well get juiced' is a better fit to the clean guitar overdubbed sound that dominates Bridges, compared to the rockers on Bridges, that sound like they clearly are not being played live and resembles a ProTools home recording played by pros.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 8, 2025 01:39
Quote
skytrench
Yes, the dive bombing synth hasn't aged that well, but the basic drum/bass groove is good. Being made with drum loops gives it the modern feel, like most the radio hits these past decades. What are the other 2 unrealeased Dust Brothers tracks from B2B, I liked their work on Paul's Boutique at the time, do I dare revisit it ? In a way 'Might as well get juiced' is a better fit to the clean guitar overdubbed sound that dominates Bridges, compared to the rockers on Bridges, that sound like they clearly are not being played live and resembles a ProTools home recording played by pros.
What are you listening to BTB with, your phone? According to Don Was 95% of the album (not sure how one can claim 5% isn't) is the band playing live.
It's obvious with Flip The Switch, Low Down, Out Of Control and Too Tight.
Keith basically went in and cut the tracks like he did in the old days. I mean, he got the band together and worked up the songs. He sang them when we cut them and then Mick would sing them later. And then Mick would be working on some stuff with the Dust Brothers, for example, in the other studio.
- Rob Fraboni, 1997
MAWGJ is not liked by many. Here's a site, with a nice add by Negative, that says something similar in particular about how it doesn't sound like much but a lot more than I have about how bad MAWGJ is, especially the last bit:
“MIGHT AS WELL GET JUICED,” (BRIDGES TO BABYLON, 1997): Bridges to bullshit, is more like it. Stung, perhaps, by complaints of easy classicism that dogged the earlier Voodoo Lounge, the Rolling Stones brought in some hipster elements to the follow up. That meant samples, a hip-hop guest star and several tracks — including this techno-flop — produced by the Dust Brothers, a then-white hot producing crew.
It worked just as well as nicking from the Beatles had thirty years earlier. Nothing about the Stones fits into this world, either. And quite frankly the Dust Brothers appeared to have lost something in the interim between Bridges and Beck’s Odelay, not to mention earlier triumphs like the Beastie Boys’ Paul’s Boutique. Their generically electronic backing track here is somehow both relentless and largely featureless.
As Jagger shamelessly preens, “Might as Well Get Juiced” unfolds as an overlong, unfocused and unconvincing mishap — this utterly bloodless evacuation of everything that once made the Rolling Stones dangerous. Instead, they sound like con artists.
[somethingelsereviews.com]
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
skytrench
()
Date: May 8, 2025 02:24
Quote
GasLightStreet
What are you listening to BTB with, your phone? According to Don Was 95% of the album (not sure how one can claim 5% isn't) is the band playing live.
It's obvious with Flip The Switch, Low Down, Out Of Control and Too Tight.
Keith basically went in and cut the tracks like he did in the old days. I mean, he got the band together and worked up the songs. He sang them when we cut them and then Mick would sing them later. And then Mick would be working on some stuff with the Dust Brothers, for example, in the other studio.
- Rob Fraboni, 1997
To me the albums lacks 'live' tension, danger, fluctuations. It's clean, no amp hum, hiss, rumbling etc. Perfect separation. I don't hear weaving between the guitarists as in a live situation. For all we know, Keith layed down some live tracks that were overdubbed and most original instrument tracks did not make the final mix. Don's claim is hard to fathom.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 8, 2025 10:48
Some really nice playing by Keith on this one. The verses bode well for a Stones classic, but it falls flat on the choruses, imo. I have the same problem with Already Over Me.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 8, 2025 15:43
Quote
Big AlQuote
treaclefingersQuote
GasLightStreet
Mick's delivery lays this one to waste and bordering upon unlistenable.
Already Over Me isn't much better.
Not a good album for ballads... with Mick singing, anyway.
Yeah, Thief is the go to ballad on the album.
I think you can track the demise of the Mick ballad starting with Almost Here You Sigh, which I really like...but started him down a path...Out of Tears the next on that path. OK but not where I like this going, to Already Over Me and Always Suffering, hoping that would be the nadir of this dark path, but then leading to Streets of Love, rock bottom.
Mercifully Mick's resurfaced...Depending on You, SSoH, Dreamy Skies, Driving Me Too Hard. Awesome.
But isn’t ’Almost Hear You Sigh’ a Keith composition? Or, are you talking specifically about Mick’s delivery? I sort-of agree with you, if so. Out of Tears and Always Suffering are very dirge-like and somewhat boring.
I'm talking about the whole package, but yeah, as I said I actually like AHYS so it makes sense that maybe the difference is that it originated with Keith.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 9, 2025 06:52
Quote
skytrenchQuote
GasLightStreet
What are you listening to BTB with, your phone? According to Don Was 95% of the album (not sure how one can claim 5% isn't) is the band playing live.
It's obvious with Flip The Switch, Low Down, Out Of Control and Too Tight.
Keith basically went in and cut the tracks like he did in the old days. I mean, he got the band together and worked up the songs. He sang them when we cut them and then Mick would sing them later. And then Mick would be working on some stuff with the Dust Brothers, for example, in the other studio.
- Rob Fraboni, 1997
To me the albums lacks 'live' tension, danger, fluctuations. It's clean, no amp hum, hiss, rumbling etc. Perfect separation. I don't hear weaving between the guitarists as in a live situation. For all we know, Keith layed down some live tracks that were overdubbed and most original instrument tracks did not make the final mix. Don's claim is hard to fathom.
Recording technology improved between 1993/94 and 1996/97.
Why wouldn't the "original instrument tracks"... WTF are you on about?
Another: one can't record live tracks that are overdubbed. That's beyond ridiculous.
You obviously have zero concept of how a recording studio works.
Look at the credits: the Don Was and or Rob Fraboni produced tracks are the band live in the studio.
Not sure where you get amp hum, hiss or rumbling from.
You don't "hear weaving between the guitarists as in a live situation".
It's the studio - and who knows.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-10 22:13 by GasLightStreet.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
skytrench
()
Date: May 9, 2025 10:10
I know nothing about how B2B was recorded. It sounds like your typical layer based recording, that is more suitable for a drum loop based song like 'Might as well get juiced'. There is not much push/pulling going on between the musicians like with Ronnie and Keith on Some Girls or Bill's basslines. Less of a group effort more individual dial-ins. The perfected sterility of the mix does not help either. It would seem this change started after Dirty Work, no, DW was actually already too clean :-)
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 10, 2025 22:00
Quote
skytrench
I know nothing about how B2B was recorded. It sounds like your typical layer based recording, that is more suitable for a drum loop based song like 'Might as well get juiced'. There is not much push/pulling going on between the musicians like with Ronnie and Keith on Some Girls or Bill's basslines. Less of a group effort more individual dial-ins. The perfected sterility of the mix does not help either. It would seem this change started after Dirty Work, no, DW was actually already too clean :-)
Bill Wyman said that, obviously during his career, DIRTY WORK had the most reels of tape ever for a Stones album, 242.
BTB was recorded on 2" inch 24 track analog tape. Hundreds of reels of tape, with the band performing live in the same room as usual except for Saint, Low Down and Juiced.
Why BRIDGES doesn't have the push/pull you mention is because
- it's not 1977 Stones, it's 1997 Stones.
- mixing determines who is heard
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: May 10, 2025 22:06
Yea, way too much overdubbing, and tidying parts up nowadays. It's just too freakin easy. It's all right there.
I don't even think I like 'Suffering' all that much anymore. I had to go and re-listen bc I used to like it; imagined it was Mick singing to Keith in the verses. Sort of like 'Classic Girl' by Jane's.
But now even the verses sound too polite to me.
I don't even think I like 'Suffering' all that much anymore. I had to go and re-listen bc I used to like it; imagined it was Mick singing to Keith in the verses. Sort of like 'Classic Girl' by Jane's.
But now even the verses sound too polite to me.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 11, 2025 22:13
Post STEEL WHEELS the mixing certainly has reduced the Keith and Ronnie push pull, although Ronnie is all over Love Is Strong, but in general it seems to be The Keith Show with Ronnie adding slide, b-bender or pedal steel and that's it (except Don't Stop).
BANG was Mick, Keith and Charlie live.
That's it. Tons of overdubbing.
With a few exceptions everything else has been the band live.
Which means, it's not necessarily the recording, it's the mixing. In 1977 they had attitude and were probably terrified about Keith going off to prison.
In 1997, eh, it seems like UNDERCOVER was the last artist driven/motivated album. DIRTY WORK through BANG has been Oh we're here, with occasional fantastic results. All over the place. With VL it was Keith's bastardizing Wicked As It Seems for the stand out track, the brilliant bridge for Ronnie's slide in Out Of Tears and the stairwell for Charlie's Moon Is Up.
BRIDGES was way more eclectic and open. Keith's 3 are brilliant. Saint Of Me is precision. Flip is... too bad there weren't more tunes recorded like that one. Low Down is a dirge on 40 foot waves. They seemed interested.
Except when they didn't.
Then there's BANG.
BANG was Mick, Keith and Charlie live.
That's it. Tons of overdubbing.
With a few exceptions everything else has been the band live.
Which means, it's not necessarily the recording, it's the mixing. In 1977 they had attitude and were probably terrified about Keith going off to prison.
In 1997, eh, it seems like UNDERCOVER was the last artist driven/motivated album. DIRTY WORK through BANG has been Oh we're here, with occasional fantastic results. All over the place. With VL it was Keith's bastardizing Wicked As It Seems for the stand out track, the brilliant bridge for Ronnie's slide in Out Of Tears and the stairwell for Charlie's Moon Is Up.
BRIDGES was way more eclectic and open. Keith's 3 are brilliant. Saint Of Me is precision. Flip is... too bad there weren't more tunes recorded like that one. Low Down is a dirge on 40 foot waves. They seemed interested.
Except when they didn't.
Then there's BANG.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 11, 2025 23:56
<Ronnie is all over Love Is Strong,>
The strat in the left channel is Keith.
Ronnie is on Love Is Strong, but he's barely noticeable.
The strat in the left channel is Keith.
Ronnie is on Love Is Strong, but he's barely noticeable.
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 18, 2025 03:44
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The strat in the left channel is Keith.
Ronnie is on Love Is Strong, but he's barely noticeable.
WHAT!!??
There's something like 8 guitar tracks! It sounds like he's all over the track!
Re: Track Talk: Always Suffering
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 18, 2025 16:17
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
DandelionPowderman
The strat in the left channel is Keith.
Ronnie is on Love Is Strong, but he's barely noticeable.
WHAT!!??
There's something like 8 guitar tracks! It sounds like he's all over the track!
All the licks in standard and open G stuff is Keith. But you can hear Ronnie, if you listen really good.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
Amarant , austrian_nankerphelge , Bashlets , DaveyJMusician , Irix , Muddyw , Nosnibourbos , pjb , Rank Stranger , rayrad , terukun
Guests:
539
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10