So what's the deal with some of the songcredits of coversongs? I'm a little bit confused by it.

Not Fade away for instance is not credited on the 1986 abkco-cd England's Newest Hit Makers and is credited to Petty/Hardin on Stripped (although it's written by Holly). Love in Vain is credited to Jagger/Richards on Let it Bleed and as trad. arr. Jagger/Richards on Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out and Stripped (although it's written by Robert Johnson). Did they ever credited the coversongs to the 'right' people?

Buddy Holly's full name was Charles Hardin Holley. Norman Petty owned a recording studio.
i don't know whether they really wrote songs together or if adding Petty's name was simply a deal they had,
but that credit is correct.

Robert Johnson ... have you maybe read Elijah Wald's book Escaping the Delta ? fascinating book.
(did Elmore James ever credit Johnson for Dust My Blues/Broom? his arrangement of it was of course different ...
and of course our concepts about songwriting credits have really changed a lot in a short time.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-04 22:00 by with sssoul.

Charles Hardin Holley, a/k/a Buddy Holly

But bears no relation to Bo Diddley . . . he should get the real credit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-05 00:21 by camper88.

Quote
with sssoul
Buddy Holly's full name was Charles Hardin Holley. Norman Petty owned a recording studio. i don't know whether they really wrote songs together or if adding Petty's name was simply a deal they had, but that credit is correct.

Robert Johnson ... have you maybe read Elijah Wald's book Escaping the Delta ? fascinating book.
(did Elmore James ever credit Johnson for Dust My Blues/Broom? his arrangement of it was of course totally different ...
and of course our concepts about songwriting credits have really changed a lot in a short time.)

Well, that clarifies Not Fade Away; thanks for your answer. Wasn't Dust my Broom by Robert Johnson partly based on Sagefield Woman Blues? Escaping the Delta sounds like a interesting book. I'm gonna look out for a copy of it. Just been reading Peter Guralnick's Feel Like Going Home: Portraits in Blues, Country, and Rock 'n' Roll. Fascinating book!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-04 21:49 by Crossfire Hurricane.

Crossfire,

I think that the issue with the RJ songs is that they were public domain at the time (trad.) and so Jagger and Richards could claim the song's arrangement as their own without having to acknowledge the original song writer, much as has been done with Auld Lang Syne, variously "written" by Guy Lombardo, Rod Stewart, or The Barenaked Ladies.

Gets even stranger. The "Bleed" original vinyl release credits Love In Vain to Woody Payne

And itb was listed as "Traditional" on some reissue releases...either through ignorance on the part of the label or in an attempt to avoid paying royalties.

Lyrically Love In Vain is Johnson so he should get credit period. 'Arrangement', with whatever preceding it or however it is used is such a whorish way of saying one 're-wrote' something.

Quote
skipstone
Lyrically Love In Vain is Johnson so he should get credit period. 'Arrangement', with whatever preceding it or however it is used is such a whorish way of saying one 're-wrote' something.

From the mouths of whores:

"We changed the arrangement quite a lot from Robert Johnson's. We put in extra chords that aren't there on the Robert Johnson version. Made it more country . . . ." - Mick Jagger, 1995
"Sometimes I wonder... myself (about how we developed that arrangement). I don't know! (laughs) We only knew the Robert Johnson version. At the time we were kicking it around, I was into country music - old white country music, '20s and '30s stuff, and white gospel. Somewhere I crossed over into this more classical mode. Sometimes things just happen. We were sitting in the studio, saying, Let's do "Love in Vain" by Robert Johnson. Then I'm trying to figure out some nuances and chords, and I start to play it in a totally different fashion. Everybody joins in and goes, Yeah, and suddenly you've got your own stamp on it. I certainly wasn't going to be able to top Robert Johnson's guitar playing." - Keith Richards, 1995

>> Lyrically Love In Vain is Johnson so he should get credit period. <<

... from Elijah Wald's book Escaping the Delta:

"[Johnson's "blue light was my blues" verse] was not original, having appeared eleven years earlier
in Lemon Jefferson's 'Dry Southern Blues' ... As usual [Johnson's song] was based on a previous model,
taking both its form and the distinctive wordless verse from [Leroy] Carr's last major hit, 'When the Sun Goes Down'."

none of which is meant in any way to detract from Robert Johnson - just one illustration
of how much our concepts about songwriting credits, what counts as original, etc, have changed in a very short time.
and it's worth bearing in mind that 1969 is closer in time to Robert Johnson than it is to 2008.
trying to "transplant" our current concepts about these things to previous times doesn't work very well.

Quote
with sssoul
>> Lyrically Love In Vain is Johnson so he should get credit period. <<

... from Elijah Wald's book Escaping the Delta:

"[Johnson's "blue light was my blues" verse] was not original, having appeared eleven years earlier
in Lemon Jefferson's 'Dry Southern Blues' ... As usual [Johnson's song] was based on a previous model,
taking both its form and the distinctive wordless verse from [Leroy] Carr's last major hit, 'When the Sun Goes Down'."

none of which is meant in any way to detract from Robert Johnson - just one illustration
of how much our concepts about songwriting credits, what counts as original, etc, have changed in a very short time.
and it's worth bearing in mind that 1969 is closer in time to Robert Johnson than it is to 2008.
trying to "transplant" our current concepts about these things to previous times doesn't work very well.

Amen to that . . . but Buddy Holly and Bo Diddley? Bo was pissed.

EVERYBODY ripped Bo off. "Hey Little Girl" in the 60s(forgot who did that). "I Want Candy(who was that by?) George Michael's song.
With sssoul, I agree about the old blues songs. It seems like standard songs just started making the rounds in the old days and each bluesman put his own stamp on it. Its like nobody really knows the origins of some of the standards!

OK, so Johnson ripped somebody off. That doesn't give right to not credit Johnson for Love In Vain though - they covered HIS song, even if he did rip it off!

Yeah, but who IS Woody Payne?

Some kind of splinter obviously heh heh.

isn't Woody Payne the guy who wrote "Lost Highway"?

Woody Payne is discussed some in this thread as well: [www.iorr.org]
it's mostly about another subject, but if you read Papo's posts on both pages maybe there's some clarity there.

oops, it's Leon Payne who wrote and recorded "Lost Highway."
[www.bobdylanroots.com]

Quote
camper88
Crossfire,

I think that the issue with the RJ songs is that they were public domain at the time (trad.) and so Jagger and Richards could claim the song's arrangement as their own without having to acknowledge the original song writer, much as has been done with Auld Lang Syne, variously "written" by Guy Lombardo, Rod Stewart, or The Barenaked Ladies.

Auld Lang Syne, a Scottish poem from 1788, 'written' by Canadian band the Barenaked Ladies? Never knew that

Quote
scottkeef
EVERYBODY ripped Bo off. "Hey Little Girl" in the 60s(forgot who did that). "I Want Candy(who was that by?)

I Want Candy : original recording by The Strangeloves in 1965, covered by Bow Wow Wow in 1982 and most recently by Spice Girl Melanie C for the 2007 movie of the same name. Mel C? Can't wait to hear it! Should be better then the cover of Word Up by Mel B.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-07 20:29 by Crossfire Hurricane.