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Well, first of all: we don't know much of the '69 tour. There's mainly just the footage from the Gimme Shelter video, and some pictures of a collection of guitars back stage.
For some strange reason, the 1970 tour has far better documentation: a fair share 8 mm films combined with many pictures.
From the info we have until now it seemed that on the '69 Keith used a LP Custom for open G, a Dan Armstrong for all standard tuning tracks, and the ES-355 had the capo pre-fixed for Rambler. But things apparently weren't fixed: Little Queenie sees Keith playing the 355, and the picture from this site has Rambler on the Amrstrong.
On the 1970 tour keith used a LP Custom AND an Armstrong for open G, and a LP Custom and an Armstrong for standard. On this tour he used the Armstrong on Rambler.
I now have to go back to Ya-Ya's, as I simply can't imagine that this version is played on an Armstrong. It's just a total Gibson sound you hear. But I now have to listen differently.
Mathijs
How can you make out that it's a ES-355 in that picture?
You do mean the one where Mick is kneeling on stage, don't you.
I thought it must be the Dan Armstrong on first sight, but the photo is so small and dark - not even downloadable...it's hard to tell.
maybe someone has a better copy of the pic - Rockman, With Sssoul? please.
Mathijs, I'd never ever argue about Keith's guitars with you, it's just what I've always thought.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-08 01:21 by therollingmanu.
But then I found YOU!
Mathijs
Midnight Rambler is played in B major so
the capo is in the 7th position
If you put it on a fret the guitar would not sound I am afraid.
You can also play M.R as a bar-chord (without capo) but it sounds slightly different then.
That'll just be a typo/mistake, he knows it's in B etc.
My remark was for musical purposes,just to make shure everybody can enjoy playing M.R on his (or her) guitar like Keith did.
I only play British instruments -they all have that quirky zero fret!
Mathijs
Do you mean they just put more input in the Amp?
They ought to make all budget guitars with a zero fret,
That way poor kids wouldn't struggle to learn on some POS with a nut that nodody ever bothered to cut properly !
The trick is the "sensitivity" switched that all Ampeg amps until 1976 have. It's a switch that lowers the impedance on the imput so you can choose a setting on which the amp does not distort. Of course, bands like the Stones and The Faces discovered that you can also choose a setting on which the amp does distort easily. Both Taylor and Richards plugged straight in to the amp's high sensitivity channel, and dialed all controls in such manner that the amp distorts heavily when the volume on the guitar is fully open. When you turn back the volume on the guitar, the overdrive fades and you have a clean sound. Basically, all you hear from 1972 until 1975 is all done by adjusting the volume knob of the guitar.
Mathijs
Such an interview would be potentially amazing, as for sure Mathijs would ask all the right questions!
Can't you buy time from Keith for interviews? lets all chip and set it up!
Yeah indeed, the groove of MR is great, especially after a few beers!
I think how questions are asked has a big influence on how people reply, even Keith, and of course, most other interviewers won't won't have been as OCD about the technical details etc.
He probably has stock replies for the stock questions, but perhaps better probing would get the ol KR head ticking a bit thus giving more informative replies.
That is a very good point.
Many - I should say every - biographer has generally a sounder knowledge of his subject than the subject has on herself/himeself.
But here what I would suggest to Mathjis
- focus only on one tour, to force Richards to go back into his memories - even focus only on a bunch of songs of this particular tour
- bring vivid material that speaks to the subject: past interviews, bootlegs, picture
- use inaccurate answers as a plus to haves a better picture of the truth - sometimes discrepancies convey weak signal that show you where to really look for
Talk about your favorite band.
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Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 7, 2008 18:11
There's several pics available of a Gibson ES-355 with a capo on the 8th fret, but this picture to me is the first ever picture of Keith playing Midnight Rambler on his Amped Dan Armstrong on tour in 1969.
Bottem left:
[www.sfae.com]
Mathijs
Bottem left:
[www.sfae.com]
Mathijs
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: July 7, 2008 18:19
That's a pretty cool site.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
therollingmanu
()
Date: July 7, 2008 18:24
I thought he always played MR on the Dan Armastrong...
[www.iorr.org]
scroll down to almost the bottom of the page, His Majesties post. Now I know this is 1970, but as far as I know, Keith didn't change his guitar settings on the following EU tour, did he?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 18:29 by therollingmanu.
[www.iorr.org]
scroll down to almost the bottom of the page, His Majesties post. Now I know this is 1970, but as far as I know, Keith didn't change his guitar settings on the following EU tour, did he?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 18:29 by therollingmanu.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Rank Stranger
()
Date: July 7, 2008 19:19
Mathijs, I have an old magazine about the 69 tour (my favourite) by Michael Lydon with uncredited photos, I don't know if you know this mag.
It has several photos with Keith and his Dan Armstrong, capo on 4th fret and without capo; but I cannot say which song they are playing.
Unfortunately, I cannot post these pics here, send me your e-mail address and I'll mail them to you, you may put them up here!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 19:24 by Rank Stranger.
It has several photos with Keith and his Dan Armstrong, capo on 4th fret and without capo; but I cannot say which song they are playing.
Unfortunately, I cannot post these pics here, send me your e-mail address and I'll mail them to you, you may put them up here!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 19:24 by Rank Stranger.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 7, 2008 20:22
Quote
therollingmanu
I thought he always played MR on the Dan Armastrong...
[www.iorr.org]
scroll down to almost the bottom of the page, His Majesties post. Now I know this is 1970, but as far as I know, Keith didn't change his guitar settings on the following EU tour, did he?
Well, first of all: we don't know much of the '69 tour. There's mainly just the footage from the Gimme Shelter video, and some pictures of a collection of guitars back stage.
For some strange reason, the 1970 tour has far better documentation: a fair share 8 mm films combined with many pictures.
From the info we have until now it seemed that on the '69 Keith used a LP Custom for open G, a Dan Armstrong for all standard tuning tracks, and the ES-355 had the capo pre-fixed for Rambler. But things apparently weren't fixed: Little Queenie sees Keith playing the 355, and the picture from this site has Rambler on the Amrstrong.
On the 1970 tour keith used a LP Custom AND an Armstrong for open G, and a LP Custom and an Armstrong for standard. On this tour he used the Armstrong on Rambler.
I now have to go back to Ya-Ya's, as I simply can't imagine that this version is played on an Armstrong. It's just a total Gibson sound you hear. But I now have to listen differently.
Mathijs
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
open-g
()
Date: July 7, 2008 20:47
Quote
Mathijs
There's several pics available of a Gibson ES-355 with a capo on the 8th fret, but this picture to me is the first ever picture of Keith playing Midnight Rambler on his Amped Dan Armstrong on tour in 1969.
Bottem left:
[www.sfae.com]
Mathijs
How can you make out that it's a ES-355 in that picture?
You do mean the one where Mick is kneeling on stage, don't you.
I thought it must be the Dan Armstrong on first sight, but the photo is so small and dark - not even downloadable...it's hard to tell.
maybe someone has a better copy of the pic - Rockman, With Sssoul? please.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: July 7, 2008 20:55
open-g honey, what Mathijs is saying is that it *is* an Armstrong in that Ethan Russell shot -
as you say, that's indeed what it looks like. he's saying there are *other* shots where Keith's got the 355 for Rambler.
i don't think i have a larger version of the Russell shot, but give me a minute to check ...
here's the best i can do ... it's quite clearly the Dan Armstrong ... and i admit it: pun intended! :E
- 1969 by Ethan Russell
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 21:07 by with sssoul.
as you say, that's indeed what it looks like. he's saying there are *other* shots where Keith's got the 355 for Rambler.
i don't think i have a larger version of the Russell shot, but give me a minute to check ...
here's the best i can do ... it's quite clearly the Dan Armstrong ... and i admit it: pun intended! :E
- 1969 by Ethan Russell
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 21:07 by with sssoul.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
open-g
()
Date: July 7, 2008 21:17
*blush* Oops - I got it all wrong, sorry...
note to self: check that coffee (maybe it's without caffeine?)
thank you for picture anyway.
note to self: check that coffee (maybe it's without caffeine?)
thank you for picture anyway.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
therollingmanu
()
Date: July 8, 2008 01:21
Quote
MathijsQuote
therollingmanu
I thought he always played MR on the Dan Armastrong...
[www.iorr.org]
scroll down to almost the bottom of the page, His Majesties post. Now I know this is 1970, but as far as I know, Keith didn't change his guitar settings on the following EU tour, did he?
Well, first of all: we don't know much of the '69 tour.
Mathijs
Mathijs, I'd never ever argue about Keith's guitars with you, it's just what I've always thought.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-08 01:21 by therollingmanu.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
gimme_shelter
()
Date: July 8, 2008 01:49
Mathijs. You are SO lost.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 8, 2008 20:21
Quote
gimme_shelter
Mathijs. You are SO lost.
But then I found YOU!
Mathijs
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 8, 2008 23:41
Quote
Mathijs
There's several pics available of a Gibson ES-355 with a capo on the 8th fret, but this picture to me is the first ever picture of Keith playing Midnight Rambler on his Amped Dan Armstrong on tour in 1969.
Bottem left:
[www.sfae.com]
Mathijs
Midnight Rambler is played in B major so
the capo is in the 7th position
If you put it on a fret the guitar would not sound I am afraid.
You can also play M.R as a bar-chord (without capo) but it sounds slightly different then.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 8, 2008 23:53
Quote
Amsterdamned
Midnight Rambler is played in B major so
the capo is in the 7th position
If you put it on a fret the guitar would not sound I am afraid.
You can also play M.R as a bar-chord (without capo) but it sounds slightly different then.
That'll just be a typo/mistake, he knows it's in B etc.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: July 9, 2008 00:21
His Majesty, just a thought-see if you agree.For "garage band" guitarists like myself who play more for their own enjoyment than anything else, isnt "Midnight Rambler" a wonderful song in it's simplicity(rythm wise) but also room to improvise and jam all night long?!
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 9, 2008 00:34
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Amsterdamned
Midnight Rambler is played in B major so
the capo is in the 7th position
If you put it on a fret the guitar would not sound I am afraid.
You can also play M.R as a bar-chord (without capo) but it sounds slightly different then.
That'll just be a typo/mistake, he knows it's in B etc.
My remark was for musical purposes,just to make shure everybody can enjoy playing M.R on his (or her) guitar like Keith did.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 9, 2008 00:47
Quote
AmsterdamnedQuote
Mathijs
There's several pics available of a Gibson ES-355 with a capo on the 8th fret, but this picture to me is the first ever picture of Keith playing Midnight Rambler on his Amped Dan Armstrong on tour in 1969.
Bottem left:
[www.sfae.com]
Mathijs
Midnight Rambler is played in B major so
the capo is in the 7th position
If you put it on a fret the guitar would not sound I am afraid.
You can also play M.R as a bar-chord (without capo) but it sounds slightly different then.
I only play British instruments -they all have that quirky zero fret!
Mathijs
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 9, 2008 00:52
Quote
Mathijs
I only play British instruments -they all have that quirky zero fret!
Mathijs
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 9, 2008 11:28
And 22 positions unfortunately .Gibson and Fender (21 ?) didn't improve trough the years,,,but they sound great,at least lets say before 1975.($$$$$ to get)
Then they got worse. Comparing the price/quality to for example Ibanez I think they are much too Xpensive nowadays?
Then they got worse. Comparing the price/quality to for example Ibanez I think they are much too Xpensive nowadays?
Ampeg overdrive 1969...
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 9, 2008 11:56
If you listen to for example "Stray cat blues" on GYYO, you can hear MT switch to a much more overdrive sound for his 3 guitarsolos on his Ampeg with a foot switch.
I know these amps had only one volume button these days,
Anybody knows how they did it,maybe already a preamp volume built in-customized-?
Way beyond their time?
Or one of the first "Big Muffs"-I doubt it-because of the poor sound quality and
noise production.
Any technical people amongst us?
I know these amps had only one volume button these days,
Anybody knows how they did it,maybe already a preamp volume built in-customized-?
Way beyond their time?
Or one of the first "Big Muffs"-I doubt it-because of the poor sound quality and
noise production.
Any technical people amongst us?
Re: Ampeg overdrive 1969...
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: July 9, 2008 12:38
I believe he only switched to the bridge pick up and adjusted the volume on the guitar. If I can remember well, his cable went directly from the guitar to the amp.
C
C
Re: Ampeg overdrive 1969...
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 9, 2008 12:56
Ok,but Ampegs these days(Ihad one myself)were built to play very loud but still have clean sound..and on midnight R he had a simular sound(Keit too) with the neck pick up,..so It still isn't very clear to me.Quote
liddas
I believe he only switched to the bridge pick up and adjusted the volume on the guitar. If I can remember well, his cable went directly from the guitar to the amp.
C
Do you mean they just put more input in the Amp?
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Faye Slith
()
Date: July 9, 2008 14:15
reckon Keith used the DA for Rambler perhaps early on the 1969 Tour, then maybe changed his setup.
The guitar sound from the early shows versus the MSG (Ya Ya) shows does sound a little different on Midnight Rambler....
Remember the song is in standard tuning with a capo positioned on the neck so it might make sense early on in the tour that Keith might simply stay with the DA...?
???
The guitar sound from the early shows versus the MSG (Ya Ya) shows does sound a little different on Midnight Rambler....
Remember the song is in standard tuning with a capo positioned on the neck so it might make sense early on in the tour that Keith might simply stay with the DA...?
???
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2008 15:54
Quote
Mathijs
[
I only play British instruments -they all have that quirky zero fret!
Mathijs
They ought to make all budget guitars with a zero fret,
That way poor kids wouldn't struggle to learn on some POS with a nut that nodody ever bothered to cut properly !
Re: Ampeg overdrive 1969...
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 9, 2008 19:53
Quote
AmsterdamnedOk,but Ampegs these days(Ihad one myself)were built to play very loud but still have clean sound..and on midnight R he had a simular sound(Keit too) with the neck pick up,..so It still isn't very clear to me.Quote
liddas
I believe he only switched to the bridge pick up and adjusted the volume on the guitar. If I can remember well, his cable went directly from the guitar to the amp.
C
Do you mean they just put more input in the Amp?
The trick is the "sensitivity" switched that all Ampeg amps until 1976 have. It's a switch that lowers the impedance on the imput so you can choose a setting on which the amp does not distort. Of course, bands like the Stones and The Faces discovered that you can also choose a setting on which the amp does distort easily. Both Taylor and Richards plugged straight in to the amp's high sensitivity channel, and dialed all controls in such manner that the amp distorts heavily when the volume on the guitar is fully open. When you turn back the volume on the guitar, the overdrive fades and you have a clean sound. Basically, all you hear from 1972 until 1975 is all done by adjusting the volume knob of the guitar.
Mathijs
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
The Joker
()
Date: July 9, 2008 19:53
I wish Mathijs should interview Keith some day for a guitar mag. It would be a real genuine stuff, even I could hardly understand 10% of this tech guitar thing.
Mathijs, I mean it. Even you are not a journalist by trade, your website (what did you do with, BTW?) speaks for you. Give a try, I'm sure you could be commissioned.
And you would do this also for history. When you, Keith and many other will have pass, this will stay for musicians who are not born yet.
Mathijs, I mean it. Even you are not a journalist by trade, your website (what did you do with, BTW?) speaks for you. Give a try, I'm sure you could be commissioned.
And you would do this also for history. When you, Keith and many other will have pass, this will stay for musicians who are not born yet.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 9, 2008 20:03
Quote
The Joker
I wish Mathijs should interview Keith some day for a guitar mag.
Such an interview would be potentially amazing, as for sure Mathijs would ask all the right questions!
Can't you buy time from Keith for interviews? lets all chip and set it up!
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 9, 2008 20:08
Quote
scottkeef
His Majesty, just a thought-see if you agree.For "garage band" guitarists like myself who play more for their own enjoyment than anything else, isnt "Midnight Rambler" a wonderful song in it's simplicity(rythm wise) but also room to improvise and jam all night long?!
Yeah indeed, the groove of MR is great, especially after a few beers!
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: July 9, 2008 20:11
hmm, but wouldn't keith just give the same mythical/inaccurate answers as he does for all interviews, guitar or not? I think Mathijs is probably able to give better information than going straight to the source would!
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 9, 2008 20:18
Quote
cc
hmm, but wouldn't keith just give the same mythical/inaccurate answers as he does for all interviews, guitar or not? I think Mathijs is probably able to give better information than going straight to the source would!
I think how questions are asked has a big influence on how people reply, even Keith, and of course, most other interviewers won't won't have been as OCD about the technical details etc.
He probably has stock replies for the stock questions, but perhaps better probing would get the ol KR head ticking a bit thus giving more informative replies.
Re: Midnight Rambler 1969 guitar
Posted by:
The Joker
()
Date: July 9, 2008 20:23
Quote
cc
hmm, but wouldn't keith just give the same mythical/inaccurate answers as he does for all interviews, guitar or not? I think Mathijs is probably able to give better information than going straight to the source would!
That is a very good point.
Many - I should say every - biographer has generally a sounder knowledge of his subject than the subject has on herself/himeself.
But here what I would suggest to Mathjis
- focus only on one tour, to force Richards to go back into his memories - even focus only on a bunch of songs of this particular tour
- bring vivid material that speaks to the subject: past interviews, bootlegs, picture
- use inaccurate answers as a plus to haves a better picture of the truth - sometimes discrepancies convey weak signal that show you where to really look for
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