It doesn't matter how they did it, but on Exile MT is fully merged in the band. His solos and fills and everything fits perfectly the context. To the point that sometimes you can't say who played what.

I agree - I always have thought Mick Taylor did the best Keith Richards in addition to his vibrato.

What I love about MT on exile are the details. See Sweet Virginia, for example, the mandolin intro, the cromatic lines to close the verse, all perfectly integrated in Keith's superb stomping main rithm. And the incredible slide work.

Yes, there are the monster solos as well, and the Casino Boogie solo is one of his best, but there is so much more.

C

Is 'Ventilator Blues' his only properly gieven songwriting credit?

[thepowergoats.com]

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Greenblues
That's a very harsh judgement, cc. I don't know. What's your exaxt problem with TWFNO? Too "forced"? Too much soloing? I quite like the song. It's not as strong as Winter or Moonlight Mile which might have been the templates they tried to follow here but it's still an impressive collaboration IMO.

I know that a lot of people like it, Greenblues, and that it's a centerpiece of the taylorite portfolio, but to me (and several other posters to this thread, evidently) the song's just a turkey. Yeah, too much soloing for me--if you like a lot of soloing, then I guess you'd like the song, but I imagine a large proportion of Stones fans don't like a lot of soloing, or they wouldn't be Stones fans. Plenty of other bands for that kind of thing. But that's not even it--wide variety is one of the Stones' strengths, but this song seems poorly written and poorly produced to me. The lyrics are just dross, and you can tell from mick's vocals that he feels the same way. Unfortunately the dry, sterile production--a problem throughout IORR, a dark horse candidate for the Stones' Worst Album--makes them loud and clear.

the intro is kind of nice, until the vocals enter, and it's charming how unpolished the overall performance is, especially the backing vocals. If you imagine how Fleetwood Mac or somebody would present a soft-rock cut such as this, you can appreciate how rough and ready the Stones are, for a major rock act. But that's a rather roundabout way to enjoy the song, and it disappears once we enter the taylor-zone for the final 10 minutes (just kidding) of vibrato demonstration. There's much more groove and interaction on the "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" outro, which I don't really enjoy anymore either. Here it sounds like the rest of the band is just hanging back to give taylor room.

so yeah, that's why I would want to steer the discussion of taylor's best contributions toward albums where he actually doesn't shine so obviously, because I think that's actually when he's at his best.

Exile II

Fingerprint File---He plays guitar, Bass, and synthesizer and background vocals.

I really think that on Exile he fades back from where he was on Sticky Fingers. He's almost invisible for most of the first half. "Casino Boogie" is a fascinatingly murky cut, not a vibrato showcase as was "Sway" (which I guess is also fairly murky) and his presence is subtle at most on just about all the songs until "Ventilator Blues," which to his credit is not his usual style. He doesn't really emerge--on guitar, he does play a fair amount of bass--until "All Down the Line" and "Stop Breaking Down." Maybe not coincidentally, these songs at the end of the album are where keith steps back just a bit, and we threaten to enter the taylorsphere on "Shine a Light." But I definitely wouldn't say taylor is prominent on this album.

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Faye Slith
we all know Keith speaks sh!t far too often...one day he wants to kinfe the guy, the next he loves him....lets get it straight - Jagger & Keith don't give a sh!t about him....they love money and screwed him big time...argue otherwise and you are kidding yourself.

I guess if you say they screwed him enough times, some people might start to believe it. How is it his career would have been better without them?

cc - I really enjoy your analysis in this case, and I agree you. I also think think that Taylor contributed most not in those moments when he was most to be heard (like TWFNO or CYHMN) but in those moments when he most contributed to the songs, and how they were shaped and felt like. I think GOATS HEAD SOAP is his moment of glory - that's when he really contributed (with his collaboration with other Mick) to the music of the Stones. In that album is that smooth, stylish Taylorish feeling all around. most apperent, of course, in "100 Years Ago" and "Winter".

That is also good point about the celabrated "Time Waits For No One". That is really quite forced output, and Taylor's guitar sounds like out-take or a thing not home with the rest. There is not Stones groove or cohesion to be heard at all - plus ít has one of the worst Jagger's vocals ever. With the flat note of "Ruby Tuesday" - you know: "She would never SAY..." - it is a wonder they ever got that one released, Just compare to "Winter", "Angie" or "Fool To Cry"...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-17 00:50 by Doxa.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-17 00:48 by Doxa.

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Doxa
cc - I really enjoy your analysis in this case, and I agree you. I also think think that Taylor contributed most not in those moments when he was most to be heard (like TWFNO or CYHMN) but in those moments when he most contributed to the songs, and how they were shaped and felt like. I think GOATS HEAD SOAP is his moment of glory - that's when he really contributed (with his collaboration with other Mick) to the music of the Stones. In that album is that smooth, stylish Taylorish feeling all around. most apperent, of course, in "100 Years Ago" and "Winter".

That is also good point about the celabrated "Time Waits For No One". That is really quite forced output, and Taylor's guitar sounds like out-take or a thing not home with the rest. There is not Stones groove or cohesion to be heard at all - plus ít has one of the worst Jagger's vocals ever. With the flat note of "Ruby Tuesday" - you know: "She would never SAY..." - it is a wonder they ever got that one released, Just compare to "Winter", "Angie" or "Fool To Cry"...

- Doxa

cc and Doxa - I can see your point (that's what IORR is all about to me - different angles, perplexing viewpoints, deep insights etc.). Yeah I can sense why TWFNO might seem daft to some souls, still like that approach (in the way I like, say, Might As Well Get Juiced). It's as "deep" you can get into Mick after he pulled the curtains somwhere between Moonlight Mile, Winter and this one. You hardly find any heartfelt expression afterwards which is kind of sad.

I completely agree that the most "obvious" contribution isn't necessarily the greatest or most important. Without further analysis my choice would be "Sticky Fingers".