so don't listen to him. do I have to read how many gigs you've played in order to understand how Keef gets carried?

I think - this is a guess, not a "I know and you don't" trip - that Keith started playing those 'same three notes' in solos on the Steel Wheels tour for his Sad Sad Sad solo. And it went from there. It's interesting to a point but not on so many numbers of songs as it has become. On SAL, he does it in She Was Hot, SFTD, I think he does a goofy one in Faraway Eyes (along with some other bizarre licks!), Satisfaction, etc...so it is NOT in every song. It is in a lot of songs.

So why is that?

I think Keith likes it. I don't think it's a matter of the shape of his fingers, because is that were the case then he wouldn't be doing all that he does in Midnight, As Tears Go By, Shattered, etc...because that requires just as much effort blah blah blah...

I think Keith likes that rolling lick so much he just does it whenever he feels like - whether it works or not!

If he played these song like he played it back then we would complaining .....is that all he can play over and over again....or...we already heard that...... or......I think they copied this solo from Ya Ya's ?

__________________________

Skipstone, I think you're right. But with Sad, Sad, Sad, my guess is he was exploring some cross-tonal scales, and that worked fine on songs like Sad, Sad, Sad and High Wire. But imo only to spice up his other stuff. Nowadays, this approach seems to be prioritized instead of the blues playing (pentatonic) that he always did before. Notice that Keith uses the lighter strings more often in his solos...

Quote
skipstone
I think - this is a guess, not a "I know and you don't" trip - that Keith started playing those 'same three notes' in solos on the Steel Wheels tour for his Sad Sad Sad solo. And it went from there. It's interesting to a point but not on so many numbers of songs as it has become. On SAL, he does it in She Was Hot, SFTD, I think he does a goofy one in Faraway Eyes (along with some other bizarre licks!), Satisfaction, etc...so it is NOT in every song. It is in a lot of songs.

So why is that?

I think Keith likes it. I don't think it's a matter of the shape of his fingers, because is that were the case then he wouldn't be doing all that he does in Midnight, As Tears Go By, Shattered, etc...because that requires just as much effort blah blah blah...

I think Keith likes that rolling lick so much he just does it whenever he feels like - whether it works or not!

Quite a bit of truth in those comments I think.
As I mentioned in another thread, Keith's playing seems to go through phases. I don't think his playing has gone...it's just one of those odd phases.
And as other folks have mentioned...many aspects of his playing are as good as ever. I don't think it's the fingers either. Obviously they will limit his technique to some degree, but they don't decide what he plays...only whether he can.
It's his choice of notes that folks are having a problem with at the moment. He could play simple licks those folks would like better with one finger ...but apparently doesn't choose to.

[/quote]

still i hear and see (as so many others do) that his playing just got a real mess and even harder it often doesnt make any musical sense. or as someone said here: keith is not the musical leader anymore, he gets carried....[/quote]

guitarbastard:

I truly find it hard to understand your point here. Or, better, I do to a certain extent because I've been playing the guitar myself for almost 20 years and for sure I can recon a bum note when I hear it. But I don't want to discuss of the occasional bum note. I am not interesd in it. What I can't understand is how tu quoque, a fellow guitar player, a keith fan, don't find his current guitar playing inventive, highly emotional, groovie, it has all, nothing is missing. I am listening once more to SAL, only the right channel in my ear. It's fantastic, fresh, guitar playing! Every song is improvised. The bends? They cut me in two! The timing. And what can I say of the tone!

C

Once keith took open tunings to electric he bored the death out of me playing 5 strings and using the same pharsing as he changed open tunings and found the small chords and slides. I always found Keith's acoustic work more challenging and more interesting during his career. His best moment on SAL is his acoustic on ATGB did you catch his subtle upstroke on the C chord during the intro before jagger gets into the verse.

play that guitar boy.

Quote
liddas

still i hear and see (as so many others do) that his playing just got a real mess and even harder it often doesnt make any musical sense. or as someone said here: keith is not the musical leader anymore, he gets carried....[/quote]

guitarbastard:

I truly find it hard to understand your point here. Or, better, I do to a certain extent because I've been playing the guitar myself for almost 20 years and for sure I can recon a bum note when I hear it. But I don't want to discuss of the occasional bum note. I am not interesd in it. What I can't understand is how tu quoque, a fellow guitar player, a keith fan, don't find his current guitar playing inventive, highly emotional, groovie, it has all, nothing is missing. I am listening once more to SAL, only the right channel in my ear. It's fantastic, fresh, guitar playing! Every song is improvised. The bends? They cut me in two! The timing. And what can I say of the tone!

C[/quote]

hey thats all ok. its great if you love it! i dont wanna convince anybody of the opposite. it means what it means to you. i dont even care so much about the bum notes. but to me it really seems that he often does not listen what is going on musicaly. and that he plays the same 3 notes over so many songs is not only a pain in MY ears, but i find it just simply uninspired and boring.

... the glory days (68-72) were the glory days, in the studio and the tours around that time, because of Keith. For that alone, he will always be a God to me (that's not even getting into his 78-82 days).

Keith could just smile, wave, do that same (durr durrr DURRR durrr) major-scale 4-note semi-riff as a solo for every song until the end of their career, spew nonsense to the press, and hog-call his token 2 songs per show, and I'd STILL love him.

(guess I still love him!)

I don't personally think there's anything more to say about his current state other than "well, that's all we'll ever get outta him again", and I'm no 'apologist' type either - I wouldn't ever play anyshow in the last 10 years to try to snag new fans (I'd need to go at least 30 for that). I fully accept how he his, his condition, his playing. He's more than done his time, paid his dues, etc. He's more of a spectacle than a musician now, but ya gotta love the ol' snipe anyways!

[thepowergoats.com]

Playing guitar gives music "sensitivity"...yes. "Superiority"...no. And yes I call myself a guitar player. Is that such a holy term that cannot be used freely? Oh sure...I use it to throw my weight around.

I don't doubt my beliefs when I speak of Keith's playing. That's because Keith and I speak the same language: guitar. If I speak French with a friend of mine while someone else listens in...they might think: "Oh wow, Justin's friend speaks French so beautifully." But then I told you...the other guy spoke French poorly: he wasn't grammatically correct at times, he didn't say the write verbs...he was using the wrong pronouns...whatever." My ears are trained to hear the language a certain way---someone else can simply say "sounds good to me!" And why not? I am not a painter. So when I see a painting...I'll probably say "I like it. Nice colors and design." And would find no problem with it. The same painting shown in front of a professional artist could still like it but still find 5 things wrong with it. Just because you have knowledge on something--it's supposed to be put away?

When I talk about Keith Richards' playing I am not comparing him to other GUITAR PLAYERS. No. I am comparing Keith Richards to the other Keith Richards I've heard and seen. I am comparing Keith to the standard and bar that Keith himself has created for himself. But mind you...I am not comparing him to the Keith from '69...or '75...or even '81...that's unfair and a useless thing to do. When I hear "Sympathy" today, I am expecting something to be as good as it was in '97...when I hear "Midnight Rambler" I want it to be as good as it was in 2003. Therefore I am not looking at Keith and saying "Yeah, Keith but I know this other guy who can play beter than you on Sympathy..."The only person I'm using as a template is Keith Richards.

Why must everything be so black OR white? People are viewed in one of 2 categories: there's the carefree/freebirds who say "Just listen to the music, maaaaan! Rock on!" on one side of the spectrum and waaaaaay on the other side are the dark, evil gargoyles who say "Keith sucks! They should all retire!" There is no middle. Me, I'm a bit past the middle--leaning towards the positive side of the spectrum.

Thankfully, threads like these always follow the same pattern: someone posts something about Keith's playing...people here disect it saying he's still great, some saying he's terrible, some are indifferent, all sides are of course defending their beliefs passionately. Then before the thread implodes on itself, someone comes along and says something like "It's only rock and roll, guys! Don't take it too seriously!" or "It's just music, man!" Then we all do a couple 'hip hip horrays', clink our glasses and sing one or two verses of "For He's A Jolly Good Fellow!" At which point, the thread finally exhausts itself and dissapears, only to have the same subject and comments resurrected just as passionately in a thread, days or even weeks later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-22 20:56 by Justin.

guitarbastard wrote: "then clean your ears!"

What a "strong argument"...

OK guitarbastard, nevermind... Don't worry about me, i have clean ears since 1961 (i was born then) and much cleaner since 1973, at time when a became a Stones fan...

Justin, I've always tried to float in the middle of the spectrum you describe, like you. I'm a realist, and not an apologist. I've accepted that Keith the Guitar Hero is no more. He's Keef, the cute ol' rocker you wanna buy a gin and hear him talk about the old days.

[thepowergoats.com]

Good points and fair observations, Justin. In addition, at the same time we could have here 50 different threads about Keith (now we have 2-3...) and express exactly the same opinions...

He's 64 and has f-ed up fingers with marbles in the, .Give him an f-ing break or don't listen and go cry on some other site!

smile: i once saw someone claiming to be ~*THE*~ Spanish-speaker everyone else needed
to assess the sounds the locals were making. we tried to point out that the locals were in fact
performing a play in 14th-century Aragonese, but ~*THE*~ Spanish-speaker remained oblivious.
that's all right - there are so many things to learn! :E
two more quotes:
1] "it's a tribal thing."
2] "the truly great ones are always gentle."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-23 10:17 by with sssoul.

he is the game...

.... yeah, how can anyone comment on his playing when he aint????

Have not read the whole thread, BUT . . ..


I thought that was Mick Taylor playing the SFTD solo on Ya Yas?????

From what I remember of the SFTD film clip on 1968 Circus dvd, that solo was keith played was nothing. I even remembered thinking: "Can Keith actually play guitar?"
It reminded me of a Dirty Harry movie when Clint Eastwood pretends to be a pilot on a hijacked plane and the real pilots ask if clint has ever actually flown a plane before!

>> the SFTD solo on Ya Yas <<

Keith and Mick T each take one solo on SFTD on YaYas

i cant get into any technical comments about keiths playing cus im not a guitar player and have no clue where to even start in a technial discussion getting down to the thickness of the strings or the tuning he uses but the way i see it music is suposed to make you feel something maybe its a sad song that makes you feel emotional or could be just the complete and total joy you feel of hearing keith walk out and play the first few chords of a song that you love, or maybe its the energy you get from hearing your absolute favourite song but either way it doesnt matter to me if the playing is maybe sometimes a little off or that he might not be as good as when he was 20 the point for me at least is the way i feel listening to him play, it makes me happy to watch and listen to keith playing maybe more than any other musician

I have not been on the board in a couple of weeks. Good god fellas! It this the rip, berate and stomp Keith Richards thread?

Are those of you slamming the man actually fans of the Rolling Stones are as the kids in St. Louis say "Player Haters"?

A sad, sad thing to read.

CBII

Quote
with sssoul
>> the SFTD solo on Ya Yas <<

Keith and Mick T each take one solo on SFTD on YaYas

First Keith, then Mick T.
The change point is pretty obvious.

[thepowergoats.com]