anybody knows what brand guitar Keith plays on the original studio version of Angie?
and what is the difference between what Keith plays and Mick Taylor?
thanks!
Jochem
still trying to get the exact sound myself...

let me respond myself
it is a Martin... but what Martin I want to know...
MT plays exactly the same chords... but does not play in the intro
would love to know the exact arrangement, never mind the strings
one day want to learn the pianopart too, it still gives me a chill up the spine, so beautifull it is...
Jochem

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Jochem
let me respond myself
it is a Martin... but what Martin I want to know...
MT plays exactly the same chords... but does not play in the intro
would love to know the exact arrangement, never mind the strings
one day want to learn the pianopart too, it still gives me a chill up the spine, so beautifull it is...
Jochem

I fully disagrea. Keith's acoustic is full throttle Gibson Hummingbird. It's a signature sound. This is absolutely not a Martin.

Mathijs

Keith is up in the mix, and Taylor is way down. Easy to figure who´s playing what IMO.

Gibson Hummingbird, good to know thanks.
With Taylor so low in the mix I wonder what it is he plays. Never seen any tabs of the 'second guitarpart' of Angie.

It's funny how one of the videos shows Mick T on piano! Guess Nicky had gotten the boot by then?

[thepowergoats.com]

Mick's guitar appears to be a Martin D-28. The Hummingbird appears to have been Keith's acoustic of choice, at least up into that time. A very distintive sound that guitar has!

>> The Hummingbird appears to have been Keith's acoustic of choice, at least up into that time. <<

wasn't he using a Harmony and a Martin on stage a lot in the early 70s?
that's what i recall learning in our fine Keith's Acoustics thread: [www.iorr.org]
(not that i'm arguing about the Hummingbird on Angie - i believe you!)

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with sssoul
>> The Hummingbird appears to have been Keith's acoustic of choice, at least up into that time. <<

wasn't he using a Harmony and a Martin on stage a lot in the early 70s?
that's what i recall learning in our fine Keith's Acoustics thread: [www.iorr.org]
(not that i'm arguing about the Hummingbird on Angie - i believe you!)

Well, the Harmony was used in '70 and '71, in '72 he used a Martin OM-28 and a Gibson J-50, and the opening gig of the 1973 had Keith on his blonde Hummingbird -as far as I know the only time he played a Hummingbird live on stage.

But as far as recording goes: I guess that about all acoustic tracs Keith layed down in the studio until IORR are done on a Hummingbird.

Mathijs

Mathijs is the Hummingbird used on the studioversion of Angie from a specific year, special type or is any Hummingbird similar? It seems to sound almost as if it is with nylon strings...and noticed how Keith tend to play Angie on classic/spanish guitars lately?
Thanks for your profuond insight in these very important matters

Jochem

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Jochem
Mathijs is the Hummingbird used on the studioversion of Angie from a specific year, special type or is any Hummingbird similar? It seems to sound almost as if it is with nylon strings...and noticed how Keith tend to play Angie on classic/spanish guitars lately?
Thanks for your profuond insight in these very important matters

Jochem

The Hummingbirds the Stones played throughout the '60's and early 70's were all from 1960 to 1963, with the emphesis on 1963. The blonde Hummingbird used by Richards on Exile was most likely from '63, with the somewhat smaller pickguard.

I never saw Richards playing Angie on a nylon strung guitar -but I am not a big fan of the current Stones.

Mathijs

used Hummingbird from 67 for $1,250 on Ebay is the best I can find
vintage 60-63 are from $4,000 and up. there must be something real special about Hummingbirds made in these years.
Mathijs do you think the sound is different depending what year?
What about the Epihnone Hummingbird, they are much cheaper, is the sound the same as vintage?
Thanks again!
Jochem

Who gives a @#$%&,if one can play Angy on the guitar,what else matters?

the choice of guitar does matter for certain songs, maybe not to you. to get the exact sound/tone as the original just interests me.

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Jochem
the choice of guitar does matter for certain songs, maybe not to you. to get the exact sound/tone as the original just interests me.

That's ok if you want to copy.. but if you want to grow your own it doesn't matter.

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Jochem
the choice of guitar does matter for certain songs, maybe not to you. to get the exact sound/tone as the original just interests me.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you'll never get the exact sound/tone, even though you have the same guitar. A large component of the sound is created by the musician who plays the guitar.

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Koen

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Jochem
the choice of guitar does matter for certain songs, maybe not to you. to get the exact sound/tone as the original just interests me.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you'll never get the exact sound/tone, even though you have the same guitar. A large component of the sound is created by the musician who plays the guitar.

It is not 'just' the choice of guitar, but thats a part of it.
Sometimes it is nice to get that exact copy down, as a tribute.

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Jochem
used Hummingbird from 67 for $1,250 on Ebay is the best I can find
vintage 60-63 are from $4,000 and up. there must be something real special about Hummingbirds made in these years.
Mathijs do you think the sound is different depending what year?
What about the Epihnone Hummingbird, they are much cheaper, is the sound the same as vintage?
Thanks again!
Jochem

First I would like to say that buying a Hummingbird does get you in the ballpark of the sound on Angie, but with acoustic guitars the sound is for a very, very large part in the hands of the producer and engineer. What I basically hear on Angie is the use of a very, very expensive ribbon microphone in a very, very good sounding room, recorded with very expensive recording equipment.

In my opinion, vintage acoustic guitars are great, but I do think that Gibson and Martin are producing guitars these days that are really just as good as vintage guitars. Of course, you can not beat a pre-war Martin, or a '50's J200 or J-45, but for us mortals with limited amounts of money I personally would rather buy a newer guitar (preferably played in, so say five to ten years olf) than a late '50's or early '60's acoustic that's most likely on bad shape (of course in the US the situation is a bit better, as more vintage guitars in good condition are available).

A vintage Humminbird is basically the same guitar as a new production Hummingbird (from 2002 on). The vintage bird will have brazillian rosewood fingerboard while the new guitar has Madagascar rosewood. The vintage guitar will have a lesser sounding adjustable bridge, while the new guitar will have a better sounding solid bridge. Vintage Birds normally have fatter necks compared to the C-shaped thinner necks of modern Birds.

So, what to buy? Depends on how much money you want to spend, but I would prefer a newer Bird. But with the current dollar to euro rate $4000 for a '63 Bird sounds very tempting -a new Bird in Europe is more expensive than that!

I don't know about the Epiphone Hummingbird. I have played some Epi acoustics and I thought they were worth the price you pay for it. It wasn't my cup of tea.

Mathijs

Hi guys,
live Angie in Four Flicks, MSG, Keef really plays to his daughter, I just love it

First excuse my poor english, but...
I allways thought it was a huge difference beetween an early sixties hummingbirg and the new ones, specially about the bridge, and this metal parts and bakelite piece in the vintage ones. It is supposed to sound different…

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hummingbird
First excuse my poor english, but...
I allways thought it was a huge difference beetween an early sixties hummingbirg and the new ones, specially about the bridge, and this metal parts and bakelite piece in the vintage ones. It is supposed to sound different…

From my experience, vintage Hummingbirds sound a bit more compressed due to the adjustable bridge. But, this is actually not a bad thing considering the fact that Hummingbirds tend to be very loud and a bit boomy. A tad compression smooths things out a bit.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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hummingbird
First excuse my poor english, but...
I allways thought it was a huge difference beetween an early sixties hummingbirg and the new ones, specially about the bridge, and this metal parts and bakelite piece in the vintage ones. It is supposed to sound different…

From my experience, vintage Hummingbirds sound a bit more compressed due to the adjustable bridge. But, this is actually not a bad thing considering the fact that Hummingbirds tend to be very loud and a bit boomy. A tad compression smooths things out a bit.

Mathijs

Mr mathijs; Did you just make that up? That's the funniest thing i ever read. Compressed sound due to a adjustable bridge!!! Haha!!!

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More Hot Rocks

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Mathijs

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hummingbird
First excuse my poor english, but...
I allways thought it was a huge difference beetween an early sixties hummingbirg and the new ones, specially about the bridge, and this metal parts and bakelite piece in the vintage ones. It is supposed to sound different…

From my experience, vintage Hummingbirds sound a bit more compressed due to the adjustable bridge. But, this is actually not a bad thing considering the fact that Hummingbirds tend to be very loud and a bit boomy. A tad compression smooths things out a bit.

Mathijs

Mr mathijs; Did you just make that up? That's the funniest thing i ever read. Compressed sound due to a adjustable bridge!!! Haha!!!

Grab an acoustic guitar, and play some chords. Now, let a second person place his hand, fully spread, on the surface behind the bridge, and press lightly. Again play some chords.

The difference you hear is about the same as the adjustable bridge Gibson introduced in the late '50's induces on a guitar. You loose some response, attack, volume and warmth. It just mutes the sound. You can describe the effect as "compressed".

This is one of the reasons why the Gibson Everly Brothers J-185 is such a popular guitar among rythm guitarists: due to the large pickguards the sound is compressed and muted, which sounds terrific on open G tuned songs.

Mathijs

It explains the fact that so many recording studios have these old acoustic Gibsons, and the prices of theses guitars...

<I never saw Richards playing Angie on a nylon strung guitar -but I am not a big fan of the current Stones.>

1989/90. Electric with nylon strings...

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Mathijs

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hummingbird
First excuse my poor english, but...
I allways thought it was a huge difference beetween an early sixties hummingbirg and the new ones, specially about the bridge, and this metal parts and bakelite piece in the vintage ones. It is supposed to sound different…

From my experience, vintage Hummingbirds sound a bit more compressed due to the adjustable bridge. But, this is actually not a bad thing considering the fact that Hummingbirds tend to be very loud and a bit boomy. A tad compression smooths things out a bit.

Mathijs

It is true I tried it on my accoustic, but I did not like the demped effect really, mmm makes me more anxious to buy the original 'loud' Hummingbird
It must be a guitarist guitar... Thanks Mathijs, you truly know what you are talking about. One question: why you do not fancy the current stones too much?
and what is your preferred guitarsound and style of playing?
Jochem

any comment on cartoon sound effects.

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Jochem

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Mathijs

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hummingbird
First excuse my poor english, but...
I allways thought it was a huge difference beetween an early sixties hummingbirg and the new ones, specially about the bridge, and this metal parts and bakelite piece in the vintage ones. It is supposed to sound different…

From my experience, vintage Hummingbirds sound a bit more compressed due to the adjustable bridge. But, this is actually not a bad thing considering the fact that Hummingbirds tend to be very loud and a bit boomy. A tad compression smooths things out a bit.

Mathijs

It is true I tried it on my accoustic, but I did not like the demped effect really, mmm makes me more anxious to buy the original 'loud' Hummingbird
It must be a guitarist guitar... Thanks Mathijs, you truly know what you are talking about. One question: why you do not fancy the current stones too much?
and what is your preferred guitarsound and style of playing?
Jochem

I don't like the current Stones anymore as I feel that without Bill Wyman the groove and swing is gone. I just really don't like Darryl Jones, I don't like his simplistic playing and I don't like his sound. Second, I feel that Richards and Wood lost it -in the case of Richards completely. I just listened to some Shine a Light tracks, and the guitars are just missing. In my opinion, the Stones don't rock and groove anymore.

My prefered sound is a Telecaster or LP Junior through a cranked Boogie MK IIB, and the sound of my own Hummingbird of course.

Mathijs

I do agree that today's Gibson Hummingbirds
are truely great guitars. To be honest, I've never played
a bad Gibson acoustic. However, if you were to pick up a new
Hummingbird and play Angie, that "sound" won't be there.
It'll be closer Lady Jane. Someone pointed it out earlier
that it's down to recording techniques and compression.
The best sound I got recording an acoustic (a Guild, I believe) was having it mikedthrough a Neumann 47 (maybe it was a 48) and then run through
a Urie 1176 compressor. It made for a gorgeous sound.
Not your average home setup, though.
I also agree 100% with Mathijs' above post regarding
the current Stones. Compare his playing in '75 or '78 to, say, the last 20 years.
Which would you rather have?

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tomk
I do agree that today's Gibson Hummingbirds
are truely great guitars. To be honest, I've never played
a bad Gibson acoustic. However, if you were to pick up a new
Hummingbird and play Angie, that "sound" won't be there.
It'll be closer Lady Jane. Someone pointed it out earlier
that it's down to recording techniques and compression.
The best sound I got recording an acoustic (a Guild, I believe) was having it mikedthrough a Neumann 47 (maybe it was a 48) and then run through
a Urie 1176 compressor. It made for a gorgeous sound.
Not your average home setup, though.
I also agree 100% with Mathijs' above post regarding
the current Stones. Compare his playing in '75 or '78 to, say, the last 20 years.
Which would you rather have?

Tomk thanks for this invaluable information. Now I know to go for the vintage Hummingbird, the same year build as the one Keith plays. It is a strange fetish of sorts but I just want to get as close to that sound as possible, thanks again.