So is Keith sharpening his knife before some intended dastardly work or has he just had a blazing row with his missus and is suggesting that it's best if they sleep on it?

...or has skipstone got it spot on?

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with sssoul
2] if Keith was an "old pirate" in 1985/86, what does Murray call him now?

More chillingly, if Murray described him as looking like a "week old corpse" back then, what on earth does he think of him now?

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LOGIE
S or has he just had a blazing row with his missus and is suggesting that it's best if they sleep on it?

...or has skipstone got it spot on?

I like this interpritation of it. and It would fit in with the Dirty Work Era, when Mick and Keith were waging WW III



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-18 00:46 by ryanpow.

>> It doesn't make sense. <<

ahh but it does it does! listen to that wonderfully intimate, loving way Keith's sharpening his blade -
it's so beautiful it's plain scary! and vice versa. (and personally i really doubt a lady inspired it -
but that doesn't matter either. it's extraordinary.)

>> I always thought of Sleep Tonight as a soothing song... up until now that is. <<

smile: that's what i love about the quarterly Dirty Work thread: scenic grandeur at every turn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-18 01:11 by with sssoul.

People who've been here for a year or more know from previous DW threads I always defend this album: despite some production froth, it's a fascinating and honest record, angry, fractious, a statement about the state of the Stones that's more than that. Keith & Ron teamed up, what with Mick & Keith either rarely in the same room, or at each other's throats. Ron had been addicted to freebasing for years, Charlie didn't look dapper on the cover, strung out on heroin & speed. And Bill, got himself, at age 46 in 1983, a 13 year old girlfriend - and, as in the past when Keith proved 'difficult' during Goats Head sessions, remained aloof, absent from sessions, audible on maybe 3 or 4 tracks. Then there's Mick - a year after his pleasent, well produced funk/dance solo debut, which is about nothing and on which he oversings to compensate his difficulty finding a convincing 'solo' persona. 'She's The Boss' I sort of like, but it's utterly unlike UC or DW. Pissed off or considering his options as he may have been, his writing and 'singing' on DW has a committment and immediacy - he has something to say, and he "means" it - the frustration, anger, and awareness the band's falling apart leads to a unique absence of 'distance' & 'irony' (which had long helped define his and the Stones' sensibility i.e. Street Fighting Man, Brown Sugar, Salt of the Earth, etc), and whether that's intentional or because he was conflicted or distracted, the record expresses the Stones' state of crisis, including an unprecedented disruption in their rigid internal balance of power (i.e. only 3 Jagger/Richards credits). Like "Undercover" violence and anger are everywhere, but on "U" a surreal mix and gory, harsh, bleak themes of sex-as-power, pain, & humiliation pervade an album bookended by two songs with 'political' themes that are just as brutal as the rest, (until those last lines, '...we are heaven bound...') DW is filled with anger and conflict but it's cut with a little more light and air. It's hard to know what to make of Mick here - he never comes as mannered, and as on 'Undercover' he's not 'sexy' - confused, uncertain, maybe, but his words and the ways he (barely) sings them (often shouting) resonate - 'Life is passing you by / choke on that' or 'I'm looking to the future / I keep on looking back' are lines from 2 "political" songs, but they're just as appropriate a description of the ambivilance and confusion he might have felt, and that helps make this an angry and state-of-the-culture record as well as a state-of the-stones report. The "artlessness" of Jagger's vocals add to DW's astringent feel and its fleet immediacy, matched by great, dense, hard, guitar-driven rock 'n' roll (especially the Keith/Ron songs) from the band & their supporting cast, and there's nothing embarassing about the edgy attacks on 80s excess. If Mick let himself off the hook the record would be far slighter, but on 'Winning' and 'Dirty Work' he's seems willing to implicate himself. I always loved the return to classic early '60s r&b on 'Harlem Shuffle', a top 5 hit, given a sleek new finish but with Don Covay and Bobby Womack helping out - the song debuted, as I recall, along with Ralph Bakshi's video when the RS received the Grammy's Lifetime Achievment award. I know some people inexplicably dislike it, but 'Hold Back' sounds 'true' in its intent (unaffected), and has relentless drive & plenty of guitar action, Ivan Neville's bass providing funk underneath. Only 'Sleep' a great song, is imo marred by Ron's drumming and the overdone b.v.'s near the end. We all know the Stones made strong, unflinching records in the midst of crises, but Stu's death right before DW's completion....Nick Kent believed it would likely finish them. Yet they never sound self absorbed on DW. I know it's got some unnecessary keyboard gloss and too many (Patti Scialfa?) backing vocalists on, say,'Sleep', but I really don't see why this one is so generally considered among their worst. o

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 06:59 by parislocksmith.

Dirty Work isn't bad. I actually have this on vinyl,but not on CD.But I think it's better than Bridges To Babylon. But then again anything would be better than BTB IMHO....Plus you can put me in the Winning Ugly fan club.

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sweetcharmedlife
...But I think it's better than Bridges To Babylon. But then again anything would be better than BTB IMHO.....

You don't even like Keith's stuff on BTB, you don't have to mean it, thief and how can I stop? that's some great stuff.

You don't even like Keith's stuff on BTB, you don't have to mean it, thief and how can I stop? that's some great stuff.


Yeah Mean it and Thief are OK.

Ok just checking



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-18 02:49 by ryanpow.

I, for one, think Flip The Switch alone is better than all of Dirty Work. Yet alone Keith's three songs.

In fact, I quite like BTB. I viewed Anybody Seen My Baby as the 1990s Miss You only a shitload better. It's too bad it stunk live ha ha.

Then again, there are some clunkers on BTB, like Always Suffering, Gun Face, Juiced. The rest of it, though, is pretty damn good.

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ryanpow

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sweetcharmedlife
...But I think it's better than Bridges To Babylon. But then again anything would be better than BTB IMHO.....

You don't even like Keith's stuff on BTB, you don't have to mean it, thief and how can I stop? that's some great stuff.

Hear here! BTB's a two-song wonder, a completely irrelevant, directionless mess of an album. At least half of Dirty Work is actually very good, although the quality stuff does tend slalom around the fixed piles of shite. In that respect, the gold to crap ratio, it's actually on a par with Voodoo Lounge.

BTB sounds like what it basically is - filler tracks from a Jagger solo album. It's their worst album, in my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-18 18:39 by Nikolai.

OUCH - filler tracks from a Jagger album!

Dammmmmmnnnn...I bet Keith would take exception (or maybe that should be, ha ha, acception?) with that, especially his tracks yet alone the tracks Mick sings on...

............. both Dirty Work and Licks Live.....in a word dissapointing.........

Great post, john r.


BtW, I love You Don't Have To Mean It on BtB! It's a very cool song (I also like the lyrics) and the way Keith sings it always crack me up, dunno why actually. He sounds a bit sarcastic, know what I mean? Great stuff.

Dirty Work is cool , then and now. Open top car in summer going to the beach, thats where to listen to it

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Erik_Snow
I don't care too much for Winning Ugly, apart from 2 things:
Bill WYmans basslines, and the guitars. There's some extra guitar solos on the London & NY Mix....at least the London mix.

Yeah! London Mix!!!

Sounds like you also enjoy those licks !

This is great album.Very speciall kind of Dinosaur from 80`s.Sometimes i have dream about hidden Stones album between Dirty Work and Steel Wheels and it reminds better version of Dirty Strangers - you know that record

For me the only classy stones song is Sleep Tonight and Had it with you.
The rest is average or experimental which is big and unique advantage -ex Hold Back and Dirty Work.
It is nice to hear their battle "i want to be trendy" with 80`s fashion in Winning ugly , Back to zero and One Hit.Harlem Shuffle is a cross of 80`s and 60`s which is also nice to hear....
Mixes of Winning Ugly are fantastic!
I don`t know why people hate this ...
Don`t be so conservative! Boys were really brave!

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benon
For me the only classy stones song is Sleep Tonight and Had it with you.
The rest is average or experimental which is big and unique advantage -ex Hold Back and Dirty Work.
Harlem Shuffle is a cross of 80`s and 60`s which is also nice to hear....

I agree with this.
Concerning One Hit and Dirty Work; I think they both smoke, mostly because of the guitars but also cos of Jaggers snarling.
Sleep Tonight is timeless - one don't even have to "see it in the light of the 80s" to appreciate it.

one hit, dirty work, sleep tonight and harlem shuffle are great.
the middle sucks: too rude, winning, back to 0
i love the guitarwork on that album. cool riffs, really intense weaving. the production and the sound is just horrible! 80ies crap!
and i dont like jaggers singing / shouting on most of the tracks (hold back, fight)

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Nikolai
BTB sounds like what it basically is - filler tracks from a Jagger solo album. It's their worst album, in my opinion.

Keith wrote half of the songs on BTB.

Hardly filler tracks from a Jagger solo album as he hadnt made one for four years.

The impressions seems to be that they wrote songs separately for solo projects and then decided to make a Stones record instead.

plus, as as been discussed many times here, B2B had some songs that really took off when played live and became highlights of the show. Much more so than anything on dirty work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-19 01:46 by ryanpow.

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LOGIE
Interesting to see how, by 1986, NME's Charles Shaar Murray had softened his approach to the Stones in his review of Dirty Work.

....I still have this review lying about somewhere - and the MM review was almost the same - funny how this album has been so maligned afterwards.

I liked it then - and I still like it. Considering this was the 80's, the album is a small miracle.

"Sleep Tonight" is brilliant!

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ryanpow
plus, as as been discussed many times here, B2B had some songs that really took off when played live and became highlights of the show. Much more so than anything on dirty work.

That's also partly true because they never toured behind DW.

I viewed Anybody Seen My Baby as the 1990s Miss You only a shitload better. It's too bad it stunk live ha ha.

Better than Miss You? Well maybe if they hadnt put that lame-ass attempt to rap in the middle of it! Mick trying to prove the Stones were hip(LIKE THEY HAVE TO IMPRESS ANYONE.)

Oh, well, yeah, the rap thing. No, I mean the overall vibe of the tune. It's rather foggy...I know they are completely different, but that little run, it's similar. I know Miss You is in A minor, I forget what ASMB is in...but it's the groove oriented ballad...that's how it's similar. And I just happen to like ASMB better.

But the 12" Miss You is stellar.

Although not all songs of Dirty Work completely resonate with my personal tastes, I must say this album has its own special place in my heart. It might have been the last album where they were not just proving they were still a relevant band that could make "a Stones album", but they were actually making songs they thought they needed to make at the time. I mean, listening to all albums since DW, as much as I love them, there are only so few songs that have no relation with what could call "the Stones sound". Most of Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge, Bridges to Babylon and A Bigger Bang has some kind of reference to earlier work. A song like Saint of me, for example, could be a cousin of both Shine a Light or Till the next goodbye and a song like I go Wild has a lot of cousins from the middle 70's.
Listening to Dirty Work I don't have this feeling when listening to most songs. I love this album for standing out with its own sound and feel; maybe the last album without any nostalgia.

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sweetcharmedlife
But I think it's better than Bridges To Babylon

Much better IMO!

The piano intro on Sleep Tonight is suscpiciously similar to the intro on Coming Down Again. Both are great tracks.