just to help out someone in another thread, i thought it would be cool
if we could we make a little list of the stories that we've heard the Stones tell
about how specific riffs came into being. i don't mean lyrics (like SftD and The Master & Margarita)
or songs in general (like "SFM was done on a mono cassette player") - i mean specific riffs. for example:

1] everyone knows the story of Keith waking up with the Satisfaction riff in his head, taping it
and falling back to sleep (and later feeling it was too close to Dancing in the Streets)

2] everyone knows Bill says he was playing the JJF riff on an organ or something
when the Glimmer Twins waltzed in and said "what's that? sounds good"

3] Tumbling Dice "just came out of nowhere and came together in about ten minutes"
(that isn't much of a Riff-Origin Story, though - it's really too vague to count)
(even if we add that the lovely riff cantering through Winning Ugly is an "extended version" of TD)

possible number 4: Mick's talked about writing Brown Sugar on the Ned Kelly set,
but has he gone into any detail about coming up with the riff?

... what other riffs have we heard them relate stories about? Riff Stories from the 60s
would be especially helpful to the person in the other thread.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-27 10:00 by with sssoul.

About "Thru and Thru":

I was pissed out of my brain (when I wrote that)! (laughs) This is the weirdest thing, the circumstances. We were in Barbados early last year, writing songs, Mick and I. Charlie was there, and also Pierre de Beauport, my guitar man, who's also on Thru and Thru - he's the guitar at the end. And we'd been out to a club in Bridgetown. Tropical night. We had a night off, you know. And we get back to Eddy Grant's studio, which is where we were living and working, at 5 in the morning and get out of the car. And I start staggering in, and suddenly I turn around to Pierre. I said, Switch the stuff on, man. Incoming, incoming. I guess maybe in the car... But I just went into the studio and laid it all down in one take. There it was. I don't know if it was just in the car, but suddenly it came. And that's really, to me, what songwriting is. I have very little do with it, it comes on the wave.

from [www.timeisonourside.com]

thanks Koen - is that a Riff Story, though, or a Song Story?
there are more Song Stories than Riff Stories, but the person i'm trying to help
really needs specific *Riff* Stories to support a theory he's trying to formulate.

they told me every picture tells a story

x



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-25 00:02 by His Majesty.

I probably should have used this quote from the same page:

(It's a s)trange little riff. And you know, the actual basis of it comes off of a Jimmy Reed blues, a special trick that Jimmy Reed had when he would play the V chord (motions his hand like he's swiping something, then laughs). And suddenly it just flooded back to me. Of course, it's not even a blues, but it was just that one figure on guitar. Then I said, If I slide it down there (slides hand down an imaginary fingerboard), it would still keep going. And I go, Ahhh...

>> Then I said, If I slide it down there (slides hand down an imaginary fingerboard),
it would still keep going. And I go, Ahhh... <<

nice - thanks Koen!

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Then I said, If I slide it down there (slides
> hand down an imaginary fingerboard),
> it would still keep going. And I go, Ahhh... <<
>
> nice - thanks Koen!

You're welcome - that site is actually a good source for riff-stories. You just need to sit down and read every one of 'em - which is a lot of fun, BTW. I just remembered the "incoming, incoming" part for this song, so I knew where to look.

i know that site well, Koen, and i agree it's a really great source.
i'd still like it if folks would list any specific Riff Stories they remember hearing/reading the Stones relate.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> 3] Tumbling Dice "just came out of nowhere and
> came together in about ten minutes"
> (that isn't much of a Riff-Origin Story, though -
> it's really too vague to count)
> (even if we add that the lovely riff cantering
> through Winning Ugly is an "extended version" of
> TD)


are you refering to just the riff? from what I've read the song (TD) itself took a really long time to complete. one of the longest.

I think it was andy johns who said "thats a good song, but it was like pulling teeth!"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-25 01:37 by ryanpow.

I cannot verify the origin of this one...

Supposedly, in the middle of the night,
one of the Stones (might have been Bill)
had returned and was knocking on the door of the studio.
But no one could hear him...

Mick and Keith were wearing headphones, and they were immersed
in a new song. When they finally removed the headphones, they could hear
loud pounding on the door. They called out "is someone there?" and heard
someone yelling, "Can't you hear me knocking?"

After which, Keith wrote that cool riff.

EDIT
Note to with sssoul at the Dept. of Historical Accuracy:
Ok, I made that one up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-25 08:51 by schillid.

>> from what I've read the song (TD) itself took a really long time to complete. one of the longest.
I think it was andy johns who said "thats a good song, but it was like pulling teeth!" <<

thanks ryanpow - i don't think those two observations are contradictory.
the semi-story i mentioned is about the riff and the inception of the song,
and Andy Johns's observation is about getting a completed track recorded.

About Bitch:

The Stones, minus Keith, was doing it. Keith hadn't heard it yet. He went in and made the riff on the spot.

(BTW: Some good song stories inside the Jump Back booklet).

JumpingKentFlash

thanks Kent! that is a good one - it's another one that Andy Johns tells, right?
smile: but don't leave the corn flakes out - they're among my favourite parts of it.
Keith brought his bowl of corn flakes into the studio where the others were struggling with Bitch
which Johns said was not sounding real well. Keith listened a while, put down the corn flakes,
picked up the guitar and nailed the sucker. (i'm not 100% sure about the "made up the riff on the spot" part -
maybe it already existed, and Keith's feat was to play it the way it's supposed to be played.
but it's a great Riff Story anyway, so my vote is: let's count it.)

(and: NB to the person in the other thread who needs these stories: it isn't Keith
who wound up playing the Bitch riff - at least not in concert.)

so that makes what ... five Riff Stories, if we count the very vague Tumbling Dice story.
any more people remember? Riff Stories from the 60s are especially welcome ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-25 13:36 by with sssoul.

About Honky Tonk Women:

In an interview released by Anita some years ago she reported that HTW was written in a couple of hours in front of her by Mick and Keith during their stay in Positano (Salerno, Italy) ... further recording during Let It Bleed sessions at Olympic Sound Studios in London was in March 1969

thanks Keef Rider. Mick & Keith have talked about writing Midnight Rambler in Positano,
and Keith has said they wrote HTW - or more precisely Country Honk - in South America
on their december 68/january 69 trip. but in any case, aren't those all Song Stories,
rather than Riff Stories? the person in the other thread that i'm trying to help out
really needs specific *Riff* Stories to support his latest theory.

(on a side note: Anita also said in an interview in i think the early 90s that YCAGWYW was written
on that South America trip - which is impossible, of course, since it was performed at Rock & Roll Circus.
but the Circus hadn't been released when the interview took place, so people believed her,
and her mis-statement was quoted all over the place and took on a life of its own.
it's even repeated in the commentary to the official Rock & Roll Circus DVD - the document that proves it untrue -
by someone who clearly doesn't know when the South America trip took place. a minor thing, maybe,
but it's alarming how easy it is to muddle up/manipulate the historical record.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-25 23:19 by with sssoul.

"Last Train To Clarksville" always sounded like a rip-off of "The Last Time" to me. I love them both though.

Riff....what a beautifull name....and like all the beautifull thinhs got no explaination...the only word better than Riff is...Riffbuk

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> from what I've read the song (TD) itself took a
> really long time to complete. one of the longest.
> I think it was andy johns who said "thats a good
> song, but it was like pulling teeth!" <<
>
> thanks ryanpow - i don't think those two
> observations are contradictory.
> the semi-story i mentioned is about the riff and
> the inception of the song,
> and Andy Johns's observation is about getting a
> completed track recorded.

Didn't Andy Johns say soemthing similar about the riff in Rocks Off? Or am I just mixing things up?

>> Didn't Andy Johns say soemthing similar about the riff in Rocks Off? <<

i remember his anecdote about Keith calling him back to Nellcote at 5 AM or something
to add another guitar part to Rocks Off - is that what you're thinking of?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-26 11:58 by with sssoul.

Here's not really a story about the riff, but just some reading about the Satisfaction riff that's certainly entertaining:

[astrologyforthesoul.com]

smile: well, it wasn't apparently in Clearwater FL that Keith came up with the riff -
Keith says that happened in London. Clearwater's just where the Glimmer Twins finished writing the number.
but other than that i'm sure it's very astrologically significant. thanks marcovandereijk :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-26 13:25 by with sssoul.

Here's some quotes about Riffs from the Guitar Player interviews from the early 90's; (Interview by Jas Obrecht).

Q: Do your songs typically begin when you find a riff?

A: Mm hmm. First I find a riff and a chord sequence. And if that's any good, then I start to play it with some other guys and pump it up. If that's great, then I check the attitude and the atmosphere of the track. What the hell is this putting out? There's no point in writing songs on a sheet of paper, going verse, chorus, verse, chorus, and regarding this as a song. No, it ain't. A song is music, and I'd rather start with the music and then get into the attitude of the track and put something on top of it. What are you going to put on top of it, because you could have spent months writing? I can't divorce lyrics from the music. Songwriting is a marrying of the both. To me, the easiest way is to get the track. I mean, the odd brilliant and rare occasions where a song actually presents itself to you in totality from the beginning to the end, with the bridge and the hook, is very rare.

Q: Was "Gimme Shelter" one of those?

A: Yeah, "Satisfaction" was one of those, "Make No Mistake" was one of those. Those three - and that's about it - actually presented themselves in totality.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Didn't Andy Johns say soemthing similar about
> the riff in Rocks Off? <<
>
> i remember his anecdote about Keith calling him
> back to Nellcote at 5 AM or something
> to add another guitar part to Rocks Off - is that
> what you're thinking of?

Yes that must be it. Looking thru my books I couldn't find any other Rocks Off acdotes by Andy Johns than the one you posted.

The intro riff to Brown Sugar, ie, the first couple of bars at the very start of the song, is very similar to a riff in the middle of a Bill Hailey song. I was in the car years ago when the Hailey track came on but I didn't catch the title, been looking for it for years.

i recall hearing keith say at one time that the riff from honkey tonk women was just him changing a hank williams riff a little. i know my hank williams fairly well, and i can't tell which tune it might have been based on.

thanks - yeah HTW/Country Honk has a deliberate Hank-Williams-style connection,
but i didn't think Keith meant the riff?

"I wrote Honky Tonk Women as a straight Hank Williams-Jimmie Rodgers sort of number.
Later, when we were fooling around with it trying to make it sound funkier, we hit on
the sound we had on the single. We all thought, Wow, this has got to be a hit single.
And it was, and it did fantastically well. It's the sort of song that transcends all tastes.
- Keith Richards, 1969, quoted on [www.timeisonourside.com]

meanwhile, there's a 1967 demo called Title 15 that features what sounds like the HTW riff on methedrine