........................................... Philadelphia 1981



ROCKMAN

YES Camilla .........

SHINDIG! - No107 --- September 2020



ROCKMAN

A great photo, Rockie. It captures something... essential but strange.

Makes me feel what it is to be Mick Jagger... more or less on his own, fronting all that huge crowd. And them eating from your hand. Must be frightening too (not just being unsure how the crowds might react, but literally, back in 1981, having Lennon just killed - if that's what 'they' do for such a peace-loving guy, one can imagine what might happen to the Stones...).

But altogether, just the interaction between a performer and a huge crowd like that - that must be a thrilling feeling.

I guess the thing is that it needs to be also addicting. Once you have tasted that you cannot reduce your act and do, let's say, shows in small arenas or something. It woudn't be the same. (Before anyone tells me that 'hey, the Stones have done club shows and everything', oh yes I know, but the reason The Stones are still around, and hopefully tour some day again, are to charm the crowds like that).

In CROSSFIRE HURRICANE Jagger pretty clearly pointed out that it took them 20 years to get that level - that's an insight from the inside to see the story of the Stones. One way to look at the story of told in CROSSFIRE HURRICANE, the one about every Stones biography (including Keith's LIFE) repeats, is that it is those twenty years that has an actual story in them, and since then there is nothing to tell musical or progression or anything actually interesting wise - just to go to see them in concert. To hear that fascinating 20 years old story in a live set, performed by characters that were formed along the story, the main ones being Peter Pan and his Captain Hook - like two sides of the same coin, both representing in flesh an ideal form what an over-used term 'rock star' actually and originally means.

But it is a helluva story to tell. And what is more: people love to hear that. One cannot argue with the success of the last 30 years (and counting).

We little hardcore fanboys - especially us in the so called critics section - might complain about the static setlists, warhorses and everything, call them 'Vegas act' or 'nostalgia act', and want them to play "Gomper" in a 200 hundred seat club, or playing cuts from new albums they release every year like they did when the story was still in progress, but I guess for the performers themselves we critical, but loyal fans might sound pretty funny characters, probably useful idiots at best (because we all would be there no matter what they do)... I guess for them it would be like 'hey boys, we love your adoration and care, but you really don't know what is to be The Rolling Stones, the biggest rock band ever on earth, not any avantgarde act...' or 'honey, this is a rock and roll show'...

- Doxa



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-26 10:58 by Doxa.

YEAH DOXA ...... must be a body rush.
Be kinda cool ta be out there and feel it ...



ROCKMAN

John Lennon was a "peace loving guy"?

Boy did you drink the kool aid

jb

ROCKMAN

Quote
jbwelda
John Lennon was a "peace loving guy"?

Boy did you drink the kool aid

jb

You have something to say, or are you just throwing insulting one liners, old man?

- Doxa

Heres another one: revisionist history.






jb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-27 02:10 by jbwelda.

Quote
jbwelda
Heres another one: revisionist history.






jb

Oh well well well... I must be talking to an American, right?

It's pretty easy to see why there are over 70 million people voting for person like Trump, since this is kind of discussion - one liners, no argument, mocking the person, all just 'entitled to my opiniion', provided by 'constitution' (and God I guess), you name it - our social media is all about.

Funny to thought about it, taking the former downplaying of what I tried to say, the expression of "drink kool aid" was something I just happened to learn from this site. You know, what does it mean... That was not something my English schools mas ever told me, or not something I ever crossed in my life elsewhere. Never mind it, but it is pretty easy to suggest - instead - that not for a native talker of American English has ever occurred the idea that, no matter how international the forum like IORR is, that they would consider if the person they are talking to might not be so fluent in English or to know what that kind of expression actually means. They don't have time or interest for that.

"ME, ME, ME"... My truth, my world, my truth, my language, my point of view, the only and only one... The rest: go and just fvck yourselves.

It is what is, I guess.

Throwing things like that - instead of arguing with adult words against what I tried to say (something I would be more than pleased to hear, especially in the case I might be totally wrong)- You know, if there actually is something to say, something to argue for. Reasons....

Honestly, I do understand. It's easy, lazy and stupid. Arrogant too.

- Doxa



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-28 00:28 by Doxa.

Easy easy boys ......
Lets just drag out that Manhattans classic and have a grin ....



ROCKMAN

I know I know, Rockie.... But sometimes I just can't take every shit I am thrown at.. At least I would like to know why I am such an idiot with my thougths I am claimed to be....

- Doxa

Heck no man ... youre doin fine
Its good you let your thoughts flow ....
You just keep on doing what your doing .....

Believe me people see through what goes on ...

Stay safe....



ROCKMAN

For example, I do not possess such a supernatural skill to see what a hec is referred by "revisionist history". Does it refer my description of poor John Lennon (be him peace-loving or whatever) or to the story I described of the Stones - that, I know, differs from the traditional one because tried to told it by the view of the Stones themselves, Jagger in particular (based on what he have said). Not by some fanboy or a music historian. I could be wrong, damn wrong - and I am more than pleased if anyone could show me wrong. My point, if I ever try to write something, is always to tell some novel things, I guess mostly just the familiar thing from a new light. That's the only reason I am interested in writing here (or anywhere). To say something I haven't said before. To add something. When I start to repeating myself, I quit.

But with The Stones, there is always something fascinating to reflect more...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-28 00:58 by Doxa.

THIS MEANS WAR

But sorry Rockie, I didn't mean to spoil your great thread. Sometimes things just... you know... But I'm fine now, let us rock on!

- Doxa

Heck man .... dont let it rattle ya ......
I dunno what the revisionist comment was about either ...HHhaaa
And dont think I'm gonna waste anytime tryin ta find out ...

My guess jb was just tryin ta be funny or something...

Just keep writing your thoughts ... let it pour out
Believe me people see through what goes on around here .....

Chuck UK Aftermath on .... You'll roll thru
first side ta Goin Home then when ya hit side two ya soul will be ablaze ...



ROCKMAN

King Tubbys - The Dub Master ------ page 108



ROCKMAN

Boy sure pushed some buttons there. Sorry dude, settle down and don't have a coronary.

Yep American here, not that it matters really, but you got everything else just about 180 degrees out, just like a certain someone you conjure up.

Actually I was born in Canada, so you can blame them, I suppose.

Meanwhile, smoke a spliff and chill out my friend. Its what I intend to do.


PS: to call John Lennon a peace loving guy is to ignore his actual actions and instead believe the marketing that has become his legend. I liked the guy and admired what he tried to do, but he wasn't really a peace loving guy at all or the Beatles probably would not have broken up, amongst other things. But, you know, the way things are going, they're gonna crucify me.

jb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-28 01:20 by jbwelda.

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SHINDIG! Issue 107 ---- September 2020



ROCKMAN

UNCUT 281 --- October 2020



ROCKMAN

For what it's worth, it's alleged that John Lennon got into a street fight in the late Fifties or early Sixties and almost beat a man to death. I read that once, I will assume some searching will find more details or confirm that it's true or not true. With Yoko for a certain phase he was a male chauvinist and mistreated her. I think that he did some more street brawling in the early Seventies during his "Lost Weekend."

So indeed, it's probable that John Lennon is not as squeaky clean as his popular image suggests.

........................................ Photo Rockeeeeeeeeeeeee



ROCKMAN

Quote
jbwelda
PS: to call John Lennon a peace loving guy is to ignore his actual actions and instead believe the marketing that has become his legend. I liked the guy and admired what he tried to do, but he wasn't really a peace loving guy at all or the Beatles probably would not have broken up, amongst other things. But, you know, the way things are going, they're gonna crucify me.

jb

Finally something to say. I agree here. There is a difference between what a public person 'really' is and what his (promoted) image is. Just ask Keith Richards.

However, it is the public image - pretty much constituted by the content of one's art - that is the one public persons are generally seen like, and judged for, no matter what they really are. That was the way I mentioned Lennon in that context. Never occurred to my mind that I should have clarified more a sentence that was in brackets, and adding nothing to substantive to the point of my post. My mistake.

With Lennon, we could also say that no matter how many 'tell it all' books and whatever revalations of him has been produced, back in 1980 he still had a rather 'beautiful' image (actually to the most folks he still has). It was "All You Need Is Love", "Give Peace A Chance" and "Imagine". Surely some already then 'knew better'. Besserwissers...

- Doxa

The ghostwriter behind the memoirs of the Rolling Stones guitarist and David Bailey on difficult subjects, the pain of the 60s and why he’d like to write about a woman next


Sun 29 Nov 2020 05.00


James Fox photographed at home in north-west London, November 2020.
‘I’m very attuned to the way people talk’: James Fox photographed at home in north-west London, November 2020. Photograph: Suki Dhanda/The Observer


Since co-writing Keith Richards’s award-winning, bestselling 2010 memoir, Life, James Fox, 75, has become one of Britain’s most successful ghostwriters. He became a journalist at 19, working for the Daily Nation in Kenya and the Drum in South Africa in the 1960s, before exploring culture, politics and celebrity for the Observer, the Sunday Times and Vanity Fair. He has also written two acclaimed non-fiction books: 1982’s White Mischief and 1998’s The Langhorne Sisters. Look Again, his memoir with photographer David Bailey, came out last month.

In 2014, the Evening Standard’s Londoner’s Diary called you “the wild man’s ghostwriter of choice”. How does that sit with you?
Did they really? I guess that started with Keith, and although I’ve known him now for over 30 years [Fox wrote a profile for the Sunday Times in 1973, the first ever with the guitarist], he actually was a wild man back then. I’d been obsessed with guitar playing since I was 12, so I approached him wanting to speak about that, which worked as a way in. We then became friends, which was quite dangerous at the time, for various reasons.


You said on a recent podcast that your friendship involved what you euphemistically describe as a few “crushed aspirins”.
Yes, there were definitely some substances passed down the channel. But I knew from the very beginning that he could tell stories brilliantly and had a fantastic memory, so I kept on at him. Those stories had to get out. When his manager finally decided it was time, it had only taken 20-odd years.

David Bailey didn’t know you before asking you to work with him. He’s known for being cantankerous. How did you approach that job?
When I went into his office to meet him and his assistants, I said the only clause I want adding to this contract is a civility clause, and everyone fell about laughing. That helped. He had a very dysfunctional background – abandoned by his mother, an unfaithful father, so he was always fighting, physically and mentally. I found his story very moving. People from the East End back then don’t give stuff away or make themselves vulnerable, but it was that Teflon coating that I found fascinating. To come from there and then deal with people at Vogue who had probably never spoken to people with his accent, and get his way.



You interviewed lots of Bailey’s former partners, including his ex-wife Catherine Deneuve and model Penelope Tree, which is an unusual approach for autobiography. Why was this necessary?
Because his version of events was one he was comfortable with, a convenient version that left out a lot. The women in his life are also very interesting, intelligent and articulate. Penelope Tree was key [Fox interviewed her alongside Bailey]. She said to David: “This is your book – you have to be honest.” And he said: “Have you ever known me to be dishonest?” She said: “No, but I have known you to change the subject.” That’s one of his ploys.

Why do people like Bailey get mythologised?
Mythologising is what the 1960s were about. I think people look back on it now – at least I do – as a nightmare. Sexual liberation was very painful. The idea that jealousy had been cancelled [within sexual relations] was deeply hurtful, especially to women. But I didn’t get that sense of pain when people talked about Bailey. Penelope had a rough time with him, but she’s still fond of him and is friends with him now.

How do you begin a ghostwriting project?
Just get a conversation flowing. Never have a chronological clipboard in your mind going next-next-next. Sometimes you have to have the same story again and again. By the fourth time, you’ll get the detail. These stories have been flattened and deadened over time. You have to humanise them again.

How do you ghostwrite in a person’s voice effectively?
I’m very attuned to the way people talk, which I think goes back to my childhood. I had a very bad stammer when I was 12 or 13; my time was spent observing people talking because I couldn’t. I loved how everyone had their idiosyncrasies. I still love that now. Bailey has these East End expressions and this intelligence, and if you mix those two things you get this economy and snappiness. Keith has great cadences that just fit into prose. I read Keith’s book back to him out loud before we finished it, and he was listening to the sounds of the sentences, not the facts, taking a musical view. The sounds are what writing is really about.

How do you spend your working day as a writer?
Momentum is the crucial thing. I get up as early as I can before the interruptions begin – the doorbell ringing, the dog needing a walk. Get an early start, basically. And carry on!

What books are on your bedside table?
Oh God, lots, all half-read. Anne Applebaum’s wonderful Twilight of Democracy: The Failure of Politics and the Parting of Friends, about what’s exactly going on now in politics. Carmen Callil’s Oh Happy Day about her ancestors in Australia. Joan Didion. Lots of Lapham’s Quarterly, this incredible magazine that comes out of New York. Geert Mak’s In Europe, which I keep rereading. It’s unparalleled in its detail and history.


What book would you give to a young person?
Poem of the Deep Song/Poema del Cante Jondo by Federico García Lorca, a bilingual introduction to his genius. It was his first major work, written aged 23. Beautiful, painful lyrics of love, death, alienation. Can’t go wrong.

Whose memoir would you like to write next?
After Damien’s [Fox is currently working on an autobiography with Damien Hirst], I’ve got another project I can’t talk about yet. After that, it’d be nice to have a woman to write about, to experience a very different history. That is if I’m going to ghost – I might write something else – but one thing does seem to lead to another.

[www.theguardian.com]



ROCKMAN

The Age --- 3 December 2020

Humorous to read but in all seriousness
I think we could all chip in a few $$$$$$$$
and help Some Toronto Girl get herself a new vehicle .....



ROCKMAN

Wasn't me, I swear! I'm too short for those low seats. I did swap the drivers seat for a Sybian though ... now I don't mind getting stuck in city traffic so much. The cops are cool, they get it.

Heck !!!! .....Now that explains why
youre always laughing at speed humps



ROCKMAN

I rank them out of 10.