thats the way sound boards were back in the seventies

Bingo Wrote:
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> Annoying? No. Especially not as annoying of
> wondering who is playing what guitar part as we do
> today. Is it Ron? Keith? Blondie?

Its blown out off proportions, that disaster-debate.
Just see Brno at Youtube or rs-com;
coz he plays the usual stuff, our good ol' Keef!!!
Its almost if the whole Stones world suddenly
suffers from mass hysteria or -psychosis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-04 18:15 by Baboon Bro.

nice to see some support for his lead work on 'Shelter, which i always find compelling - love the wah-wah version too!

don't get the unrelenting noodling on SFM though? its not the exactly "Dazed and Confused" guitar wankery of Jimmy Page is it? i think it fits perfectly with the whole frenzied nature of the faster songs (All Down the Line, Rip this Joint, Flash, Heartbreaker, MR) yet they could still do slower tempo'd stuff like YCAGWYW (which Taylor owns your asses on!!)

I love SFM from London, Sept. 9, 1973 too. They just let it all go.

About what ya (amnd me) posted further above, Ringo...

I'm watchin' the rs.com ABB-videos, as can be seen in another thread.
I hear Blondie's playin' an intense guitar, purdy loud up in the mix
along She Was Hot. Is this one of the main reasons so many has lost
the faith in Ron & Keith as the Still-Our-Main-Axe-Men.. ?

I was thinking about Taylor last night after watching the Rolling Stones in the 70s pt 4 or some such thing. If Taylor had remained w/the Stones his guitar playing would have gone waaaaaaaaaaaaay downhill.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
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> And Ron is better now than he ever was. Thats my
> 50c.


I dont agree but I agree a little. He has been great this year. Must be his best year since 1983 or something like that.

I have thought that as well, not on every song, but definitely on some.
Sometimes there's too much sax as well. I'm sure seeing it live was FANTASTIC, but listening to it somewhat gets on my nerves.

Just yesterday my boyfriend was playing this cd while I was trying to figure out some instructions, and the sax was so frantic and repetitive and I realized I was reading the same line over and over and I was actually thinking "CAN YOU SHUT THAT SHIT OFF!!!"

I think the worst is the end of SFM, the guitar is just so fast and it's just sort of like showboating to me, theres no real groove to it, I'm sure it's very skillful and all, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's sounds the best.

cindy's getting ANAL(ytical) about the stones? the full moon was last week, too.....

Too much guitar from a guitar band? I hardly think so. Taylor was the man and stating he is only a lead guitar player really sells him short. Cheerleading is wonderful and it has its place in a band, but great guitar playing is the key. Mick was the best guitar player the Rolling Stones ever employed....according to Mr. Bill Wyman.

I aBsolutely love every second of Brussels



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-04 19:51 by Erik_Snow.

CindyC wrote:
... showboating ... no real grove to it ....
I'm sure it's very skillful and all, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's sounds the best

Nail on the head for me

I think this is a very interesting debate because personally i could listen to Taylor all night and all day and for me Brussels 73 is the prime example of Taylor's magic. However, i think there's some validity in the view that the Stones were no longer playing as a cohesive unit on that tour because there are plenty of examples of Taylor seemingly doodling on top of the songs instead of being part of the song structure. It's not a problem for me because i love that element Taylor brought to the Stones and whether arguably he did occasionally go a little too far doesn't bother me. However,i can see how others may not be quite so appreciative of his dominance.

I've always considered Australia 73 the prime example of the Stones at their very best as they do play as more of a unit.

Edward Twining Wrote:
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> > I've always considered Australia 73 the prime
> example of the Stones at their very best as they
> do play as more of a unit.

i think of the '73 winter tour as essentially an extension of the '72 us jaunt...and i would agree that it was a better tour for several reasons than the ensuing '73 european one...

As much as I love the golden years live, and specially Mick Taylors guitar work, I find the 1973 European tour to be uneven, and probably because of Taylor. Some of the set fitted the sound and playing , and some didn't.
His ability to listen seems at times to have vanished, or maybe he didn't want to. Brown Sugar is a good example of a live song that changed from one of my favorites ( on the previous tours), to a song that almost makes me embarrassed.

<Too much guitar for a guitar band? I hardly think so>

Of course it can be way too much also for a guitar band...

Taylor's lead guitar is one of the highlights of that album for me.

S.T.P Wrote:
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> As much as I love the golden years live, and
> specially Mick Taylors guitar work, I find the
> 1973 European tour to be uneven,...

It was uneven because of Bobby, Keith and Mick T. being junked out the whole time. I think Mick got tired of carrying this dead weight around with him!

S.T.P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As much as I love the golden years live, and
> specially Mick Taylors guitar work, I find the
> 1973 European tour to be uneven, and probably
> because of Taylor. Some of the set fitted the
> sound and playing , and some didn't.
> His ability to listen seems at times to have
> vanished, or maybe he didn't want to. Brown Sugar
> is a good example of a live song that changed from
> one of my favorites ( on the previous tours), to a
> song that almost makes me embarrassed.

I certainly agree with you STP on Brown Sugar. There aren't many songs i personally feel Taylor goes too far on but some of the guitar fills on Brown Sugar do seem a tad unnecessary. They don't really fit with the mood of the song.

Street Fighting Man seems to me like the Stones parodying themselves to excess. It's not just Taylor's guitar but also Jagger's vocals and his physical exuberance which contributes. It's almost like the Stones have been studying the mock rock ethics of the New York Dolls. I love the version - don't get me wrong but the versions on the earlier tours seem more sincere in my opinion so remain closest to my heart.

If we were to compare 72 with 73 - then yes, STP72 was the best tour,
I agree with what Mathijs wrote on page 1 - the Sept.7th-19th + the end of the 73 tour was really fantastic.....absolutely top rate concerts.
They sounded a bit bored in the mid tour though

StonesTod Wrote:
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cindy's getting ANAL(ytical) about the stones? the full moon was last week, too.....


Did I overstep my boundries here? Should I just stick with celebrity gossip and random flirtations?

Taylor's playing on Brussels in magnificent. Lead guitarist playing leads.

Though I believe Ronnie's playing if better with the Stones now than at any time since he joined the band, I wonder what might have happened if Taylor hadn't left. Would his play have kept Keith's from sinking? Ron and Keith are great friends, but maybe something better would have come out, musically, if Keith had Taylor pushing him. Not just live, but in the studio.

Some Girls would have sounded differently, as would have everything else since then. Would we have heard more blues? Would they be tighter live? Would they be more 'guitar band' than relying on horns and a backup guitarist?

Erik_Snow Wrote:
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> I aBsolutely love every second of Brussels


Nothing comes to mind that I don't like about it either Erik.

Especially the sax play!

you always have sax on the mind.

The combination of cascading melodic fills over Keith's best rhythm period ever was something that has never been matched. A time-piece to be treasured

Angie never sounded better. Ofcourse Taylor can do Rhythm - but circa '73, it was de rigeur to have a fancy lead guitarist - hence Stones emphasised that strength in their sound.

As for the most over-the-top self-indulgent lead guitar on a Stones' live track - the prize goes to RW on YCAGWYW circa. '75-76. I found it jaw-dropping at the time. Now I realise they were establishing Ronnie's own lead style, at a time when Hotel California lead guitar was still the rage.

The emphasis on dual rhythm guitars on SG was a result largely of the punk influence.

Ronnie is essentially a rhythm player. His lead style is usually rhythmic too.

Which guitarist you prefer in a Stones context seems to be a matter of taste.

But whereas you can be impressed by a Wood solo ( when he's on his game) - the difference is that a Taylor solo could actually be uplifting and take the listener's mind/soul to a third (or even fourth!) dimension while his/her feet remained firmly rooted in the captivating rhythmic whole.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-04 21:26 by Four Stone Walls.

I think the Stones were infinitely better with Taylor and it's really easy to nitpick here and there because for the most part it's really hard to see where Taylor put a foot wrong. The 73 European Tour was great admittedly but i'm one of those fans who don't necessarily believe 'Brussels Affair' represent the Stones at their peak. Taylor aside, i think there is an element of parody creeping into their sound which really manifests itself on the 75/76 tours which wasn't evident on the 72-early 73 tour. Maybe Jagger's growling and camping it up more and the sound seems a lot more overblown generally (not just Taylor) - possibly Billy Preston?

I just love the setlist more also on the earlier tours - Dead Flowers, Love In Vain, Little Queenie, Bitch etc. and it seems a lot more 'pure Stones' without the theatrics. Nevertheless i think the late 73 tour did show the Stones keeping up with the changing times to a degree - glam rock, progressive rock etc.

Still give me Sydney and Perth any time - make Brussels my third favourite.

WMiller Wrote:
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> Erik_Snow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I aBsolutely love every second of Brussels
>
>
> Nothing comes to mind that I don't like about it
> either Erik.
>
> Especially the sax play!


The sax o yes the sax..

Taylor is magic on BS period!

not at all, thats perposterous!

CindyC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> StonesTod Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> cindy's getting ANAL(ytical) about the stones? the
> full moon was last week, too.....
>
>
> Did I overstep my boundries here? Should I just
> stick with celebrity gossip and random
> flirtations?

you just wanna make sure you don't set a bar so high for yourself that you can never reach it again. just lookin' out for you.....