He's playing awesomely, but he "over-plays". It's called a "solo" for a reason. When you continually solo over the vocals, as opposed to playing fills, its called "noodling", and this distracts from the impact of a genuine solo.

>> to a third (or even fourth!) dimension <<

you probably want to say "fifth (or even sixth)" - three/four dimensions is normal, unless you're a geometric theory

three pound ten please :E

Jed Clever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He's playing awesomely, but he "over-plays". It's
> called a "solo" for a reason. When you
> continually solo over the vocals, as opposed to
> playing fills, its called "noodling", and this
> distracts from the impact of a genuine solo.

you just making this stuff up on the fly, or is this in the official rock'nroll rule book?

Hi,

with all those interesting debates about Taylor in 73 I have an almost OT question about the availability of the record (CD??) itself. I wish I had it - but I don't.

Any hints where to get it in Europe?
Thanks, Bob

Nice playing to me - I really like "Heartbreaker" on there.

"No Anchovies, Please"

ssssoul,

Without the melodic factor the Stones' sound these days is "two-dimensional".

Taylor (and Jones before him, though not on guitar), added the third. Ronnie does sometimes on album tracks like BoB.

Conventionally the fourth dimension is Time. For some, Taylor's playing circa '73, would transport people out of their usual time-space co-ordinates.

There is a '73bootleg called Timeless. (Parts of Brussels and Wembley 8/9, I think).

Without the melodic factor...............
You should be ashamed of yourself:
we're talkin' about Keith @#$%& Richard
and Mick @#$%& Jagger.. The greatest goddam songwriting couple
in the goddam world history... Without the...

Jed Clever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He's playing awesomely, but he "over-plays". It's
> called a "solo" for a reason. When you
> continually solo over the vocals, as opposed to
> playing fills, its called "noodling", and this
> distracts from the impact of a genuine solo.


Don't agree at all - in fact I keep waiting for Taylor to join in whenever he takes a 30 sec break. Taylor's choice of notes works perfectly with vocals going on at the same time.
Ronnie and Keith are also welcome with their guitars at later tours...Jagger can handle it

Baboon, No reason for shame.

I was not talking about songwriters - but guitar playing. Namely, Taylor's leads in a live context circa '73.

(cf title of this thread).

two words refute this "argument"

TUMBLING DICE

on angie, his part is really loud, especially at the end, but I think its F*cking cool.

Brussels or the European tour more generally are really a high-water mark for the band in that it shows them at their best while also showing aspects of the decline that begins at the same time.

it would have been good to find a way to re-engage taylor without having to endure his songwriting. whatever he brought to "Moonlight Mile" and "Winter" is tremendous, but I can't stand "Time Waits for No One," and the lines that he develops over the '73 tour are mostly inferior to what he had played before. his part on "Tumbling Dice" in particular is cheesy, almost something you'd expect from Bruce Springsteen's band.

I don't get the point on p. 1 about how "bootlegs lie." Brussels Affair is not a soundboard but a radio mix. also, it was possible for the shows to be poorly mixed at the venue, and it still is. in other words, it didn't sound good anywhere but on stage (if even the band played well.

..i don't think i'd ever call Taylor's guitar playing cheesy?! i mean, it isn't the Bee Gees or disco Rod Stewart now is it?!

Taylors guitars often sound like a whiney whinging child. Maybe theyre too high in the mix, maybe he was bored, maybe he had something to prove? really who cares, and yes he does ruin brussels.Yes other shows from the tour are better and worse. Being a virtuoso doesnt mean he's capable of great music neccessarily, rather that he has mastered his intrument, beyond normal technical expectations.

OLDKR

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Being a virtuoso doesnt mean he's capable of great music neccessarily, rather that he has mastered his intrument, beyond normal technical expectations.


Hey Keith - that was very well put.

I liken it to Mariah Carey when should used to do all those vocal gymnastics, throwing in 2 notes, where two would suffice. Yeah, we know you can do it, but it doesn't mean you HAVE to.

I have been listening to this show a lot over the last week ,as I found the vinyl the other day and it made me look for the various versions I have on cd or cdr all of which are bloody fantastic no matter what version I play,Brussels Affair,Nasty Music,Bedspring Synphony or Rock Off Cock Off.
No place does Taylor's leads get annoying ,It's different I grant you but it's all very enjoyable,let's all be gratefull to the guys who made this available for us all to listen to years later by making such great recordings at the time .
Just think of all the poor quality recordings that circulate from various tours that people can complain about ,wishing they could hear the solos better ect
Some times people don't know how lucky they are.
I was fortunate enough to see the Stones play live with Taylor in 1973 and I was also fortuntate enough to see them play live last week.
I am after all a Rolling Stones fan first and last and try not to compare like for like,basically I just love to like them whatever, whenever or whoever plays .

adotulipson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No place does Taylor's leads get annoying ,It's
> different I grant you but it's all very enjoyable(...)
> Just think of all the poor quality recordings that
> circulate from various tours that people can
> complain about ,wishing they could hear the solos
> better ect
> Some times people don't know how lucky they are.


Completely agree, Adotulipson.

Listened to some 69-73 Taylor boots yesterday - and they were soo good!

But in 73 Taylor was already keeping distance a bit mentally from the group.
Some days were still awesome. On others he seemed bored. So the 69-72 stuff is more soulful. 73 had that pace ! Unbelievable !

Yes !
And thank heaven they came up with something brilliant and totally new for their 1975 Tour - instead of copying that 72/73 era.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-05 01:53 by Erik_Snow.

Listening to Mick Taylor is like going to the bar and asking for a whisky and getting a tour of the distillery and a 12 week masterclass on its production. While it might be cool its not what is needed!

OLDKR

Annoying? Never heard that one about MT before regarding the 1973 tour. The band was in historically fine form on this tour. Fantastic balance. Musically, it could be argued as their peak if what went down on the tapes matter at all. Europe 73 was a calmer version of N America 72. We had some Goats Head Soup numbers thrown in which went down very well live. I think if they had played @#$%& in 1972 some of the arenas would have been torn up and the riot squad called in.

Instead of reading everyones thoughts on the matter. Can someone PLEASE post a link so I can download and finally hear this show. I have seen the comments so let us hear it . PLEASE

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jed Clever Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He's playing awesomely, but he "over-plays".
> It's
> > called a "solo" for a reason. When you
> > continually solo over the vocals, as opposed to
> > playing fills, its called "noodling", and this
> > distracts from the impact of a genuine solo.
>
> you just making this stuff up on the fly, or is
> this in the official rock'nroll rule book?


Oh, its in the offical Rock 'n Roll Book, alright! Page 137, to be exact.

headly123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead of reading everyones thoughts on the
> matter. Can someone PLEASE post a link so I can
> download and finally hear this show. I have seen
> the comments so let us hear it . PLEASE


Try this: [www.iorr.org]

The first time I heard Brussels 73 i could not eblive how GREAT it was. This was right around Some Girls times. I did not think the Stones could sound that good. MT on YCAGWYW on Brussels is perfection.

The talent level of MT in his prime is truley unreal.

don't give me that ole one two, one two three four

I dont think so. He was pretty good as I recall....No Peter Green or Brian Jones, but better than Eric Clapton....IMHO...

JR

<No Peter Green or Brian Jones, but better than Eric Clapton>

if Taylor could just throw leads at will like on GS, MR, YCAGWYW, Heartbreaker and so on, when he was bored....imagine what the guy could do when he was fully focused!?!

both of you are right - he should be recognised as a great, great player - and so young too... im the same age as he was when he started playing for the Stones an all that AFTER he had been a Bluesbreaker and had been on the same bill as Hendrix, Albert King...what an education!

i'd take him over Page, Clapton and any other British "new" blues (rock) player anyday

Jed Clever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> StonesTod Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jed Clever Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > He's playing awesomely, but he "over-plays".
> > It's
> > > called a "solo" for a reason. When you
> > > continually solo over the vocals, as opposed
> to
> > > playing fills, its called "noodling", and
> this
> > > distracts from the impact of a genuine solo.
> >
> > you just making this stuff up on the fly, or is
> > this in the official rock'nroll rule book?
>
>
> Oh, its in the offical Rock 'n Roll Book, alright!
> Page 137, to be exact.

that figures. that's the exact page i threw up on the last time i listened to mt's nauseating solos on the brussels boot.

Have been doin' some serious list'nin' since this
thread started.

My impression after som heavy listnin' to 72-73 is that Taylors
virtuosity (? word?) gets annoying a t
t i m e s.
But mainly is sounds reeeeaaal good & mighty mighty fine ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-05 18:08 by Baboon Bro.