Since IORR's travel all over the world a lot more than the average person I wanted to ask something it seems I've been noticing for a while. I usually travel internationally a lot but cut back for a while due to the VERY weak dollar and some business rearranging I became involved in.

Lately I've been hearing a lot more horror stories of people and Air Travel - by the same token I've been hearing a lot more about super luxurious air travel than ever before. Cesna is building a mini Jet that carries 4 people, still expensive but cheaper than ever before. I just saw that there's a fleet of full sized jets, owned and run by an Indian Billionaire, that's all FIRST CLASS and flies from NYC to New Delhi and back for $14,000. There's also a business class only fleet of planes that flies r/t NYC - London daily for less than Business class on Virgin/BA or United/Delta/American. More and more people that can afford it or are very high up in a company are using private jets...

HORROR STORIES:

People stuck in a full plane, on a runway for over 8 hour - no food, no water, toilets over flowing (Jet Blue and NorthWest)

Flight Attendant "THINKS" she saw a "suspicious person" use the employee only shuttle bus to get to the plane so a non stop LA to LONDON AMERICAN Airlines 767 makes an emergency landing at JFK, keeps the people there over night, and then finds out it was all a mistake the next morning as they put passengers on other flights. No Apologies and the flight attendant still has her job.(AMERICAN AIRLINES)

A mother is kicked off a delayed flight because her infant child refuses to stop talking and/or making noise - this stresses out one flight attendant to the point where she kicks the 2 off the plane....(flight attendant still has her job, they seem to have a lot of power these days)

Hundreds of reports of power trip, rude security at US airports barking orders at people, intense strip searches for flimsy reasons, etc

Planes over 90% full on average leaving later and later, people missing their connection, having to spend the night at the Airport...one guy was there for 3 days..

It just seems like Air Travel has really sunk to a new low if you don't pay a lot but not too many can so it's become another example of the haves/have nots... Do you agree? Do you have some interesting travel stories along the same topic more or less - nightmares at the airport and on board.....How's RYAN AIR, EASYJET, all the other discount airlines - decent or never again? Leave your thoughts and comments (No POLITICAL argueing please)......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-16 21:52 by HelterSkelter.

Count me among the have nots. I used to fly New Orleans-Atlanta frequently on the weekends to visit family. I haven't had many problems other than the occasional delayed flight, but it costs $100 more now than this time last year. My trips are far less frequent now.

Thanks HS for this thread and an opportunity to mention some lesser grievances.

I love to fly and can remember in late sixties and seventies how welcoming air personnel were.

Noticed a huge change in the past two years in particular. If you're in Economy you are considered hardly worthy of anything but the most minor attention, both on American airlines and several European carriers I've flown recently.

When I went to Paris for the Stones gig from Los Angeles, I knew that connecting flights from Heathrow to Paris might be a drag. But I'm cool. After all, once through Security I would be able to phone my English friends, buy magazines and newspapers. No Duty Free for me this time. Security took SO long in SO many rooms no time to do any of the above. On the long walk to the plane there was not a glimpse of a newstand at Heathrow. Was told "oh that's at the other end" (virtually a half mile away) and the plane was boarding.

Asked the flight attendant if she had an English newspaper "Only for First Class and Business Class passeners..." I am a rather minor member of the Executive Club but clearly unless you're paying bigtime for the ticket, newspapers are a thing of the past.

No more doing your business and paperwork in Economy. You are a captive barely able to move, much less concentrate on work or a book.

I tend to forget these grievances until the next trip. I hope to become incredibly wealhty in the near future so I will not feel like endangered, unwanted cattle on a plane.

On the bright side, at least I had "nice" people crammed in next to me.

It's a shame America "deregulated" the airlines because some department or other should really be taking a hard look at cabin safety and comfort.

I'd be interested in hearing what others -- American, UK, European -- have to say about their recent experiences. There MUST be some good news or recommendations somewhere.

Yeah, that's probably due to price of oil going higher and higher per barrel (the reason ? Depends who you wanna believe)... I took AMTRAK once from Atlanta to N.O..... took all day but it was pleasant and peaceful, but SLOW..... Do they still have that route running? My trip was many years ago....

Stonesrule, yeah, your story sounds pretty familiar these days... people have to fly so the airlines seem to now not even care anymore how they behave (as long as all of them behave badly, no one can break rank and start to go back to the "Pleasant Days" of manners and politeness - too much work to smile) Yeah, I would like to hear some other travelers stories, thanks for yours......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-16 21:36 by HelterSkelter.

"A mother is kicked off a delayed flight because her infant child refuses to stop talking and/or making noise - this stresses out one flight attendant to the point where she kicks the 2 off the plane....(flight attendant still has her job, they seem to have a lot of power these days) "

Did you see how that brat acted when they tried to interview the breeder on Good Morning America? Flight Attendant was totally justified in my opinion. If your brat can't behave in public, KEEP IT AT HOME.

-----



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-16 22:19 by ryanpow.

Well Dan, i'm not crazy about out of control kids on flights (didn't see the news coverage) but Out of Control flight attendants freak me out a lot more. Once I was in economy on the way back from Europe (pre 9/11) with my Girl Friend, we were both nicely dressed (no sweats or anything) and when the drink cart came by I asked for 3 cans of beer (wanted to get some sleep) since I knew if I was gonna get 1 at a time I was gonna have to head to the back of the plane each time. Anyway, she flipped out like some cop on way too much caffine or something and said 1 at a time - that's the policy..... I went back later when she disappeared somewhere to complain and another flight attendant said sure, no problem on the 3 beers. When I complained about the other flight attendant being difficult the cool one patted me on the back and said, "Oh, don't mind her, she had 9 hours of dental surgery yesterday and is feeling like hell today... she's not feeling well at all, in a very bad mood"... oh, OK.... These effed up flight attendants are no better than the effed up passengers (but one person is PAYING and the other is GETTING PAID - BIG DIFFERENCE)

Ryanpow, yours was good, why did you pull it?

I flew ATA to hawaii which is a discount airline. It was fine. some differences I noticed since the last time I flew: no meal just snacks that they charge for, but who cares, just pack your own food its better anyways. and they fly 737's out there now instead of big dc-10's or 747s. thats what you used to take out to Hawaii. itsprobably a cost cutting descision. ATA is one of those airlines that does a bunch of stops if you fly across the country, but since my flight was entirley over water there was no stops they could make! otherwise I wouldn't like having to stop a bunch of times and switch flights. The crew was good, very polite.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-16 22:24 by ryanpow.

HelterSkelter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since IORR's travel all over the world a lot more
> than the average person I wanted to ask something
> it seems I've been noticing for a while. I usually
> travel internationally a lot but cut back for a
> while due to the VERY weak dollar and some
> business rearranging I became involved in.
>

Interesting thread. If you don't mind I'll just intersperse some of my thoughts/comments/experiences inbetween various paragraphs of yours ... might be easier to respond that way.

>
> Lately I've been hearing a lot more horror stories
> of people and Air Travel - by the same token I've
> been hearing a lot more about super luxurious air
> travel than ever before. Cesna is building a mini
> Jet that carries 4 people, still expensive but
> cheaper than ever before. I just saw that there's
> a fleet of full sized jets, owned and run by an
> Indian Billionaire, that's all FIRST CLASS and
> flies from NYC to New Delhi and back for $14,000.
> There's also a business class only fleet of planes
> that flies r/t NYC - London daily for less than
> Business class on Virgin/BA or
> United/Delta/American. More and more people that
> can afford it or are very high up in a company are
> using private jets...
>
> HORROR STORIES:
>
> People stuck in a full plane, on a runway for over
> 8 hour - no food, no water, toilets over flowing
> (Jet Blue and NorthWest)
>
> Flight Attendant "THINKS" she saw a "suspicious
> person" use the employee only shuttle bus to get
> to the plane so a non stop LA to LONDON AMERICAN
> Airlines 767 makes an emergency landing at JFK,
> keeps the people there over night, and then finds
> out it was all a mistake the next morning as they
> put passengers on other flights. No Apologies and
> the flight attendant still has her job.(AMERICAN
> AIRLINES)
>
> A mother is kicked off a delayed flight because
> her infant child refuses to stop talking and/or
> making noise - this stresses out one flight
> attendant to the point where she kicks the 2 off
> the plane....(flight attendant still has her job,
> they seem to have a lot of power these days)
>
> Hundreds of reports of power trip, rude security
> at US airports barking orders at people, intense
> strip searches for flimsy reasons, etc

My first experience of "new improved security" as in "post 9/11" was in the fall of 2004, at airports like Houston TX, Mobile Al, New Orleans LA, Newark NJ, and I would "partly" go along with what you say. The security personnel were at that particular time mostly very ill mannered, definitely over-zealous, and basically just a bit OTT (over the top) as we say over this side of the pond. I have since travelled to/from the States in both 2005 and 2006, and their attitude has calmed down and improved since then, it must be said.

>
> Planes over 90% full on average leaving later and
> later, people missing their connection, having to
> spend the night at the Airport...one guy was there
> for 3 days..
>

To be honest, I am hard pushed to think of a flight I've taken with an airline like British Airways or Air France that has actually left either London Heathrow or Gatwick ON TIME in the last few years; ALWAYS ALWAYS late. And so on the subject of missing connections, yes ... that's happened enough times in recent years for me now to actually leave London for Paris (which is where I more often than not have a connecting flight to the French speaking parts of West Africa) the day before my connecting flight, I spend the night in an airport hotel. The connecting flights are usually between 10:30 and 11:00, and what with (a) flights nearly always leaving London LATE, and (b) it taking longer and longer these days to get through security at UK airports, I have now officially given up with trying to do the journey all in the one day (it would involve leaving home about 4:00 in the morning which I simply REFUSE to do ... seeing as I only live 30 minutes by car from Heathrow and 40 from Gatwick), I now merely leave the evening before and spend the night in an airport hotel outside Paris Charles de Gaulle.

> It just seems like Air Travel has really sunk to a
> new low if you don't pay a lot but not too many
> can so it's become another example of the
> haves/have nots... Do you agree? Do you have some
> interesting travel stories along the same topic
> more or less - nightmares at the airport and on
> board.....How's RYAN AIR, EASYJET, all the other
> discount airlines - decent or never again? Leave
> your thoughts and comments (No POLITICAL argueing
> please)......

Interestingly enough, one would THINK (I certainly would) that having now used EasyJet and Ryanair countless times, I WOULD in fact have some horror stories relating to these "sorts" of airlines. But one must give credit where credit is due, I haven't; so all power to them. You kind of know where you stand with these airlines, you have the potential of snagging some really good fares, so don't expect all the goodies and comforts of a national carrier. If you retain that thought in mind, my own experience is that these airlines have unfailingly delivered what they've promised, so I've got no quibbles with them. I've used both EasyJet and Ryanair a lot just within the last 3 weeks in fact, whilst I've been moving around following the band around between France, Spain, Portugal, and then returning home to the UK. As long as you're not late for check-in (they close check-in 40 minutes before departure time), I have found that check-in itself is pretty damm efficient, the planes LEAVE ON TIME, and if you put your hand in your pocket you can buy a cup of tea and a sandwich (albeit a pretty horrible one !!) onboard. So in my experience, so far so good.


What IN GENERAL makes air travel over here in the UK increasingly unbearable to be quite blunt - is the fact that there's just too great a volume of human traffic going through the airports, and the infrastructure is stretched to the point these days of simply not being able to cope. HEATHROW in particular is to be quite honest a national embarrassment, notably terminals 1, 2, and 3. A further gripe that I personally have is that WHENEVER I have the misfortune of leaving from T2 or T3 in particular, something like 25 to 50 percent of the security lanes in the security hall are unmanned or inoperative.

Rest assured that whatever horrors you are subjected to travelling on U.S. airlines within the States these days, there's equal horror awaiting you over this side of the pond. Air travel these days is quite plain and simply a DRAG of the first order. I think it's the "congestion" and "loss of time" elements in play these days that are prompting people to look at these other alternatives you mention (costly as they might be) ... because people are really only prepared to put up with so much before saying f*** it, how much will it cost to be rid of this s**t ? It does lead to a "have" and "have not" scenario I guess, but unfortunately that's the (congested) world we live in.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-17 00:21 by paulywaul.

Gee you guys are really making me look forward to my flight to London in 4 weeks. I have a less than 2 hour layover in Washington-Dullas (from L.A.) before I catch my London Flight. Arriving at heathrow at about 10 p.m. Let's see if I make it in by that evening, I guess I will be lucky if I make by breakfast the next morning.

paulywaul Wrote:

> My first experience of "new improved security" as
> in "post 9/11" was in the fall of 2004, at
> airports like Houston TX, Mobile Al, New Orleans
> LA

Reminds me of a situation I saw in New Orleans a couple of weeks ago.

While standing in line to have my boarding pass/ID checked (prior to screening), I heard the "security" agent that was checking passes yell out for someone that had left their bag by her. Turns out the owner of the bag was at the end of the line, and had placed her bag at the head of the line because she was too friggin lazy to carry it through the que. The "security" agent did not even notice that an unattended bag had been left next to her! What's more incredible is that she did not report the unattended bag. Makes me think that burger-flippers carry more responsibility than these clowns.

I can honestly say the flight attendants I have come across are angels attentive hard working and always a smile, even dealing with some of the most obnoxious people/passangers on the planet.

Of course this may all change this summer as we will only be flying mega budget


The worst Airport staff incoming at LAX
Witnessed a really horrid man who took a good look at the passenger in front of me back to her passport details then another good look.

Q : Are you sure you are not a man ?.

Almost anyone who works at Heathrow.

Not interested in anything you ask and god forbid you ask directions they will point in any direction they feel like.
Regardless if it is the opposite direction as long as you are out of their hair.

My experience with international flights from the US to Europe and back has been pretty good over the years as far as on time performance. Slight departure delays can often be made up in the air. As for comfort in Economy, things have deteriorated with seemingly smaller seats and reduced leg room. I also prefer Boeing to Airbus. Business class is simply not worth $2000 more than economy at this point in my life although it is WAY better. Hell, for that kind of change it ought to be. Heathrow and Paris Airport rank as terrible places if you have to change planes so I just fly direct these days. It isn't worth the money saved or increased stress to lose 4-6 hours if you miss the connecting flight. I like flying Chicago-Zurich via Swiss if I am going to Western Austria- Southern Germany. Zurich Airport is new and improved. Munich airport is also a nice place to hang out although I liked proximity of Riem in the old days to the city. The little brewery in Franz Josef Strauss Airport has some fine beers. The Weiss beer in there I had was excellent last time through! I also prefer European carriers to US airlines, although Boeing 777 flights are usually good ones.

I fly a lot domestically for work - less often internationally - but this seems to be a universal trend. Re: crying babies, there are times I've felt sorry for the parent and kid, and other times I've felt VERY sorry for me, but finally decided this was the reason iPods were invented.



(Sorry - the above is unrealistic and unfair... that woman has <gasp!> legroom!)

There have been a number of reports in the US in particular of long delays on the ground, after boarding, when planes can't get cleared to take off. The Jet Blue incident is prompting calls for guidelines of maximum delays before returning to the ramp to let people de-plane, as health issues have been cited. The best one recently though was the passenger who taped a conversation with the pilot, begging to let them off after several hours with no air, as a mother fanned her very distressed infant in the background. Airlines are loathe to return to the gate and let people out because it takes at least 30 minutes to get them out, then to herd them up again and push back would be another 45 minutes if they are cleared. But they have to get a handle on why it is happening so often. Cameras are everywhere. Links for those who want to read:

[www.govexec.com]

[www.nytimes.com]

[www.rssvideonews.com]

I've been delayed hours on the ground - both in the terminal and in the airplane; been stranded overnight in a city that I was desperate to get out of but won't name because someone is likely from Moncton and will yell at me (oh - did I say that out loud?); been turned around mid-air due to mechanical problems, and personally been involved in 2 (pre-9-11) passenger pre-board security incidents that saw security staff demoted and / or retrained, with the result that I now carry the direct phone number for a Transport Canada security investigator in my phone book.

In 2000 or early 2001, I was given an Air Canada letter opener upon checking in for a flight - when they gave me this cool little gizmo, complete with razor blade, I kinda blinked at them and asked why they were arming the passengers (truth!). They looked at me like I was demented. Two weeks after 9-11 I had to fly to Ottawa. Put it in my purse - just wanted to see their embarassment when they had to confiscate it. I still have it - enough said.



Airport security is smoke and mirrors - they make occasional over-zealous shows of diligence but are missing the bigger areas of weakness.

Airline service is another horror story - sometimes it feels less like customer service than a hostage taking - and I mean OF the passengers BY the airlines.

So endeth the rant!

I fly a few times a year, usually to San Fran, New Orleans or Florida. I always fly JetBlue, they have decent fares and I just veg out on the TV, so the flight goes a lot quicker.

I would NEVER fly American, United or Delta...I deal with airlines with my clients, those airlines are usually late, or take an additional 45 minutes to get luggage.


On my Honeymoon to Europe, we treated ourselves to this new airline... [www.eosairlines.com] We would only fly it if we get the 2 for 1 discount, which still beats a lot of Business Class prices on other airlines. They offer 2 for 1 deals about 3 times a year, we're on their Email list.

What a difference, you're treated like royalty on Eos, from the minute you get to the airport, to the minute you leave your destination airport...what a treat that was, to fly like a King and Queen.

Bingo, Eos Airlines flies only between JFK & Stanstead? Nowhere else?

That is correct, as of now. They plan on opening the NY-Paris route, as well as LA, San FRan, Chicago and Atlanta to London-Paris, I believe their target goal is this Fall?


From Stansted, you can take Ryan air to just about anywhere in Europe....we took Ryan air from Tours, France to Stansted...Ryan air was a nice discount airline...nothing fancy but gets the job done.

Thank you for that, Bingo. Never heard of Eos.

Bingo, Holy Sh*t !!! ONLY 48 seats on a 757 !?!?!? That sounds like the way to go.... I always HATED 757's cause they crammed rows and rows of 3 / 3 seating in till you were in a position to give the guy in front of you a haircut as soon as he reclined into your chest/gut/lap..... thanks for the EXCELLENT tip (now how do we fix the almost DOA US Dollar so a cup of coffee isn't $20.00 in Paris?)

I have done over 150,000 miles per year over the past 3-4 years. I usually fly Star Alliance Carriers (ANA, United, Singapore, Lufthansa), and generally international business class and domestic economy class, and the difference is like night and day.

You need to allow a LOT of time for layovers. Unless you know the airport well, or are flying in the middle of the night (or it is a small regional airport), don't cut it close. Delayed flights are so common, and airport security has made things a lot worse. If you have a layover is huge airports like Heathrow, CDG or Frankfurt, try to make sure that you fly the same carrier (or same airline alliance). Two hours is the bare minimum between flights, and if I make it, I feel lucky.

paulywaul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HelterSkelter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since IORR's travel all over the world a lot
> more
> > than the average person I wanted to ask
> something
> > it seems I've been noticing for a while. I
> usually
> > travel internationally a lot but cut back for a
> > while due to the VERY weak dollar and some
> > business rearranging I became involved in.
> >
>
> Interesting thread. If you don't mind I'll just
> intersperse some of my
> thoughts/comments/experiences inbetween various
> paragraphs of yours ... might be easier to respond
> that way.
>
> >
> > Lately I've been hearing a lot more horror
> stories
> > of people and Air Travel - by the same token
> I've
> > been hearing a lot more about super luxurious
> air
> > travel than ever before. Cesna is building a
> mini
> > Jet that carries 4 people, still expensive but
> > cheaper than ever before. I just saw that
> there's
> > a fleet of full sized jets, owned and run by an
> > Indian Billionaire, that's all FIRST CLASS and
> > flies from NYC to New Delhi and back for
> $14,000.
> > There's also a business class only fleet of
> planes
> > that flies r/t NYC - London daily for less than
> > Business class on Virgin/BA or
> > United/Delta/American. More and more people
> that
> > can afford it or are very high up in a company
> are
> > using private jets...
> >
> > HORROR STORIES:
> >
> > People stuck in a full plane, on a runway for
> over
> > 8 hour - no food, no water, toilets over
> flowing
> > (Jet Blue and NorthWest)
> >
> > Flight Attendant "THINKS" she saw a "suspicious
> > person" use the employee only shuttle bus to
> get
> > to the plane so a non stop LA to LONDON
> AMERICAN
> > Airlines 767 makes an emergency landing at JFK,
> > keeps the people there over night, and then
> finds
> > out it was all a mistake the next morning as
> they
> > put passengers on other flights. No Apologies
> and
> > the flight attendant still has her
> job.(AMERICAN
> > AIRLINES)
> >
> > A mother is kicked off a delayed flight because
> > her infant child refuses to stop talking and/or
> > making noise - this stresses out one flight
> > attendant to the point where she kicks the 2
> off
> > the plane....(flight attendant still has her
> job,
> > they seem to have a lot of power these days)
> >
> > Hundreds of reports of power trip, rude
> security
> > at US airports barking orders at people,
> intense
> > strip searches for flimsy reasons, etc
>
> My first experience of "new improved security" as
> in "post 9/11" was in the fall of 2004, at
> airports like Houston TX, Mobile Al, New Orleans
> LA, Newark NJ, and I would "partly" go along with
> what you say. The security personnel were at that
> particular time mostly very ill mannered,
> definitely over-zealous, and basically just a bit
> OTT (over the top) as we say over this side of the
> pond. I have since travelled to/from the States in
> both 2005 and 2006, and their attitude has calmed
> down and improved since then, it must be said.
>
> >
> > Planes over 90% full on average leaving later
> and
> > later, people missing their connection, having
> to
> > spend the night at the Airport...one guy was
> there
> > for 3 days..
> >
>
> To be honest, I am hard pushed to think of a
> flight I've taken with an airline like British
> Airways or Air France that has actually left
> either London Heathrow or Gatwick ON TIME in the
> last few years; ALWAYS ALWAYS late. And so on the
> subject of missing connections, yes ... that's
> happened enough times in recent years for me now
> to actually leave London for Paris (which is where
> I more often than not have a connecting flight to
> the French speaking parts of West Africa) the day
> before my connecting flight, I spend the night in
> an airport hotel. The connecting flights are
> usually between 10:30 and 11:00, and what with (a)
> flights nearly always leaving London LATE, and (b)
> it taking longer and longer these days to get
> through security at UK airports, I have now
> officially given up with trying to do the journey
> all in the one day (it would involve leaving home
> about 4:00 in the morning which I simply REFUSE to
> do ... seeing as I only live 30 minutes by car
> from Heathrow and 40 from Gatwick), I now merely
> leave the evening before and spend the night in an
> airport hotel outside Paris Charles de Gaulle.
>
> > It just seems like Air Travel has really sunk to
> a
> > new low if you don't pay a lot but not too many
> > can so it's become another example of the
> > haves/have nots... Do you agree? Do you have
> some
> > interesting travel stories along the same topic
> > more or less - nightmares at the airport and on
> > board.....How's RYAN AIR, EASYJET, all the
> other
> > discount airlines - decent or never again?
> Leave
> > your thoughts and comments (No POLITICAL
> argueing
> > please)......
>
> Interestingly enough, one would THINK (I certainly
> would) that having now used EasyJet and Ryanair
> countless times, I WOULD in fact have some horror
> stories relating to these "sorts" of airlines. But
> one must give credit where credit is due, I
> haven't; so all power to them. You kind of know
> where you stand with these airlines, you have the
> potential of snagging some really good fares, so
> don't expect all the goodies and comforts of a
> national carrier. If you retain that thought in
> mind, my own experience is that these airlines
> have unfailingly delivered what they've promised,
> so I've got no quibbles with them. I've used both
> EasyJet and Ryanair a lot just within the last 3
> weeks in fact, whilst I've been moving around
> following the band around between France, Spain,
> Portugal, and then returning home to the UK. As
> long as you're not late for check-in (they close
> check-in 40 minutes before departure time), I have
> found that check-in itself is pretty damm
> efficient, the planes LEAVE ON TIME, and if you
> put your hand in your pocket you can buy a cup of
> tea and a sandwich (albeit a pretty horrible one
> !!) onboard. So in my experience, so far so good.
>
>
>
> What IN GENERAL makes air travel over here in the
> UK increasingly unbearable to be quite blunt - is
> the fact that there's just too great a volume of
> human traffic going through the airports, and the
> infrastructure is stretched to the point these
> days of simply not being able to cope. HEATHROW in
> particular is to be quite honest a national
> embarrassment, notably terminals 1, 2, and 3. A
> further gripe that I personally have is that
> WHENEVER I have the misfortune of leaving from T2
> or T3 in particular, something like 25 to 50
> percent of the security lanes in the security hall
> are unmanned or inoperative.
>
> Rest assured that whatever horrors you are
> subjected to travelling on U.S. airlines within
> the States these days, there's equal horror
> awaiting you over this side of the pond. Air
> travel these days is quite plain and simply a DRAG
> of the first order. I think it's the "congestion"
> and "loss of time" elements in play these days
> that are prompting people to look at these other
> alternatives you mention (costly as they might be)
> ... because people are really only prepared to put
> up with so much before saying f*** it, how much
> will it cost to be rid of this s**t ? It does lead
> to a "have" and "have not" scenario I guess, but
> unfortunately that's the (congested) world we live
> in.

Helter,

Further to what I was saying, and in keeping with the subject title of this thread, please read this article in today's Evening Standard newspaper - today being 31st July 2007:

[www.thisislondon.co.uk]

HEATHROW NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE it says. Well I'm f***ing glad someone else has finally woken up to what I've known for bloody YEARS !!!!

On the way back from visiting Europe in March 2001, my dad bumped us up to an empty Business class on British Airways, simply by giving the flight attendants some Toblerones

And on the flight to Europe, my dad got us in the cockpit to watch the sun rise from BEHIND THE CURVATURE OF THE EARTH over Scotland just because he mentioned the fact that he was a pilot.

The pilot didn't ask you if you liked gladiator movies, I hope.

airtravel is no different from anything else. you get what you pay for.

OLDKR

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> airtravel is no different from anything else. you
> get what you pay for.
>
> OLDKR

Absolute bollocks. In the case of Heathrow airport, which as the London Evening Standard newspaper points out today is essentially no longer FIT FOR PURPOSE ... it makes bugger all difference whether you've paid 20, 200 or 2000 pounds/dollars/euros whatever for your flight, you are STILL subjected to the increasingly unbearable delays and indignities at the airport that its creaking infrastructure, inadequate manning levels, and years of under-investment have brought about. And EVERYONE gets implicated in that !! Take my word for it, ALL my work related flights are Business Class, and I go through that shithole of an airport up to a dozen times per year if not more. Your "Heathrow" experience these days is akin to several hours of pure misery, and you don't get any respite from it just because you're flying more "expensively" than the next poor sod. It's got NOTHING to do with what you pay for !

What you get for your money "on the plane" is another story, but even there it must be said that in the case of several airlines (no particular names mentioned), you can sometimes find yourself paying the money and getting nothing particularly worthwhile for it in return. EVERYONE that's done any significant amount of flying in their life will be able to finger at least ONE airline that's guilty on that score !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-31 21:13 by paulywaul.

Am increasingly confused by security issues, but try to take in stride so I don't get singled out for attention / abuse. Flight to Chicago on the weekend was interesting - a fellow on the way down told me about an incident he witnessed just after 9-11. An elderly man was travelling, likely for the first time in years, and they had taken his shoes and belt to x-ray. The man was very thin, and had no bum, so was holding his trousers up with one hand. The female security person asked him what he was hiding and demanded that he let go of his pants. He was terrified and mortified and did let go, and they slid almost off him. She then screamed, called security, said he had flashed her, and they took the poor old soul off in handcuffs.

I have a lovely cat-sitter who won't let me bring her souvenirs, but she does like the British Columbia salmon you can buy in most Canadian airports, so I picked up a couple of tins on the way down, knowing I'd never find them at the Toronto airport on the way back, late at night. Got out of TO with no problem, but the guys in Chicago - who were very nice about it - searched my bag until they could find them (yes, and the container of bubble bath that was too big, but I was hoping to get through... so bad...) and they didn't know if they could let the SEALED TINS of salmon thru because they were... packed in water. Finally convinced them that I wasn't going to toss fish at the crew or passengers, and they let it through. Then I took the opportunity to buy duty free alcohol for the first time - 2 litres of single malt... which they handed to me when I boarded the airplane. Now... let's think this one thru kids! 1 partial bottle of bubble bath and 2 tins of salmon vs 2 litres of rather flamable whisky... What is wrong with this picture???

Sacrificed the bubble bath, neighbour loved the salmon and the whisky will last me 20 years... I remain in a perpetual state of advanced confusion...

well, this stuff is all true - but i have to say that when i buy an airline ticket, the biggest thing i hope for is that the plane doesn't crash ! ;-) i mean, i'm not afraid to fly, i really like to in fact, but it does cross my mind.
i dunno if they do this in other countries, but in italy a lot of people applaud (the pilot i guess) as a joke as soon as the wheels touch down on the runway, it almost seems like kind of a ritual



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-01 18:00 by loochie.

I must say, I love flying, I also don't mind the time in airports, once I have cleared security. Queuing for check-in and security is boring and a bit annoying, but once through that, you can shop, eat, drink... One thing I stopped doing last year when I went on a trip to the U.S. (remember Paulywaul?!) was taking a big hand luggage bag. I always used to take quite a large bag, or one of those small suitcases that you can take on board, but I always used to pack them with loads of stuff I thought I needed for the flight, that I seldom needed / used.

I know some people have to for business or personal reasons, but, because I was travelling from london to NYC, then internal flights to Miami and LA, I decided to buy this little shoulder bag, literally just big enough to fit a city-guide book, small digital camera and some sunglasses, which was lightweight canvas material. This makes frequent flying and time in airports a breeze, because you don't have to worry about losing bags, or having them stolen, or just pulling/pushing/carrying them through an airport.

I have been pretty lucky with air travel. Never had delays in an airport more than one hour, and have been upgraded by BA before. Travelled for the first time this year on Vueling airlines, very cheap, and for the price, very good. The flights were pretty punctual, and if we took off late, we made up the time during the flight. The legroom was pretty bad, but one of the flights was quite empty so I found a seat with more legroom. They give you an option when booking to pay around 10 euros more for a seat with extra legroom.

Flew easyjet for the first time this summer, again, ok, nothing great, but no delays, people were polite enough, and due to being hungover like a bastard, I just passed out for 2 hours.

I always find BA very good, and very polite. Free alcohol, including sparkling wine!

Had an annoying delay last october with american airlines. Was flying from La Guardia to Miami, and due to heavy rain, we were sat on the tarmac for about 90mins waiting to take off. But that is about the worst I've had to deal with, so, touch wood, hoping for more easy air travel in the future!

Flew Northwest about 4 years ago, and they were pretty average, but not terrible. Old DC-10 flight from gatwick to detroit (did'nt DC-10's have a bad safety record back in the 80's?). The internal flight from detroit to toronto was crap, with rude cabin crew, and the aircraft used had propellers!!

Was dissappointed with Air Canada when I used them around 2004. I thought they would be good, with the customer service in canada generally being very good, but the plane was pretty dated, the movies were on the big screen, no individual tv sets, and alcohol was not free. After paying over £700 for a flight during the christmas season well inadvance, I arrived at the airport in Toronto to get my flight home, only to be told I was on standby! After paying that much! In the end, I got on the plane with no problems.

So, generally, I've been quite lucky, but, because I actually enjoy flying, I always approach the whole thing with a positive attitude anyway.

Due to my enjoyment of flight, I decided to start my own airline, and here is an exclusive photo of the first aircraft in our fleet:



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What's your favourite flavour?...........Cherry Red!!

Don't know if this (the following site information) has been mentioned previously, but I recently came across a website named Skytrax after enduring a particularly bad flight to the UK. I was searching for the carrier in question to complain to the airline's H.O. and stumbled across the Skytrax site. After reading the numerous passenger opinions re: the airline in question I think that I was lucky that the plane even got off the ground. In any event,it's a very useful source of information, especially if you do fly a lot, and some of the customer reviews are a hoot to read.