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Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: ohnonotyouagain ()
Date: January 21, 2007 17:28

To elaborate, I think SOL lyrics are awful, RJ lyrics are ok except for that terrible rooster/cock line, it makes me crine everytime. Neo Con lyrics are embarassingly juvenile even though I agree with the message. ONNYA lyrics are pretty bad, but I really don't mind in that case because the whole song is fairly tongue and cheek so the goofy, lightweight lyrics almost work.

Other than that the lyrics on the album are fine and even quite good in some places. And the music is killer throughout. Overall a very good album.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: drummer_dude ()
Date: January 21, 2007 17:31

I don't think Bridges to Babylon was that great. Saint of me was the best song and Keith ain't even playing on it. Its Waddy Wactel and Ronnie Wood doing the slide and lead work. Where was Keith on this? This album just misses i am sorry. ABB is a real improvement. I think after Tattoo You came out things changed. But they are all still good albums, but I guess not like the old stuff that we loved so much in the 70's. I think it is wonderful for guys in their 60's to still want to rock. The Stones will always be our band no matter what.

Have a good day,

drummer_dude

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: JaggerFan ()
Date: January 22, 2007 22:22

1997 marks the decline of Keith's relevance as a Rolling Stone in the studio. 3 Lazy songs versus the genuis work of his past? Sorry, us quasi-younger fans aren't that blinded by worship enough to orgasmically drool over every sound KR farts out these days.

I think he was the best in the biz and wrote some of the best rock before or since. Watching him now, with his in-studio (watchell) and onstage (chaplin) crutches is kind of sad.

That fact that the best materail to surface from them these days is all Mick's is a sure sign of poor Keith's decline. It's sad, really. I love Keith, but ...(shrugs)

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 22, 2007 23:43

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gaz:
> The RJ lyrics are killer.

some of them are decent enough, but its standard cliche cock-rock thats been done to death and done much better. I like the song, but lyrically its relatively slight.

> The SOL lyrics is OK

they're not, The overuse of the word 'awful' is well..awful

> (Not exactly written with his
> cock in mind).

wasnt specifically referring to that one when I said that. Its basically a poor rewrite of the much superior Out of Tears.


> ONNYA is quite OK.

Maybe to someone whose first language isnt English, but some of them are absolutely shocking and toe-curlingly embarrassing to my ears. Come on, a 61 year old man writing that yellow/jello/tits drivel?

> Neocon we can agree on, but the music on that song
> is quite good.


Its not a disaster, if something of a throwaway, but the dreadful lyrics render the song unsalvageable IMO

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 22, 2007 23:45

drummer_dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think Bridges to Babylon was that great.
> Saint of me was the best song and Keith ain't even
> playing on it.

well..he's not on 'Moonlight Mile' either and it didnt suffer as a result.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: January 22, 2007 23:48

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well..he's not on 'Moonlight Mile' either and it
> didnt suffer as a result.

he didn't play guitar on Shine A Light or Sway either, maybe it gives the other RS members an extra kick to do it on their own...

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: January 22, 2007 23:58

For me, BTB is nearly perfect. The only flaws were not using the No Biz mix of Anybody Seen My Baby and the hideous Dust Bros. production that spoils Juiced. Otherwise, I love it as much as Voodoo Lounge and rank them as the best albums since Some Girls and Tattoo You.

ABB is a completely different kettle of fish: I love Laugh I Nearly Died, Dangerous Beauty, Look What the Cat Dragged In, Rain Fall Down, Biggest Mistake, Let Me Down Slow, and She Saw Me Coming. I found Driving Too Fast, Back of My Hand, This Place is Empty, and Infamy to be pleasant filler given their pedestrian lyrics. Rough Justice and Oh No, Not You Again never work for me...self-pastiching without any style thanks to sloppy lyrics and sloppier mixing. It Won't Take Long has good lyrics, but terrible music and production. Streets of Love is dreadful, although there is a good line or two buried in there. Sweet Neo Con is great track completely ruined by dreadful lyrics. I suspect the soul arrangement of It Won't Take Long would have appealed to me, but Streets of Love needed serious surgery. I love Under the Radar and place Don't Wanna Go Home in the filler category.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Wild Slivovitz ()
Date: January 23, 2007 02:34

I liked the press conference version very, very much! It was raw, it kicked -ass, i tell you!!!

Rough Justice is a killer song.

Streets Of Love...I can live without.

Neocon... the harmonica part is really good.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: ventilator blues ()
Date: January 23, 2007 02:36

I really like this song. In fact I really like the whole albulm. Good lyrics, strong beat.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: it's_all_wrong ()
Date: January 23, 2007 05:48

drummer_dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think Bridges to Babylon was that great.
> Saint of me was the best song and Keith ain't even
> playing on it.


Seriously, how can people get away with using these backward-assed arguments? As essential as Keith is to the Stones, whether he is present or absent in a song does not in any way affect the quality of a song.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: January 23, 2007 14:55

"Maybe to someone whose first language isnt English, but some of them are absolutely shocking and toe-curlingly embarrassing to my ears. Come on, a 61 year old man writing that yellow/jello/tits drivel?

(Gazza to Kent on ONNYA)

Well, we all make surprisingly low-marks...
Jim Morrison:
"I've always been a word man
Better than a Bird Man"

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: JaggerFan ()
Date: January 23, 2007 17:25

> Seriously, how can people get away with using
> these backward-assed arguments? As essential as
> Keith is to the Stones, whether he is present or
> absent in a song does not in any way affect the
> quality of a song.


I totally agree.

Keith (or Ronnie or Charlie for that matter) didn't even play on the only good post-Tattoo You Stones LP - Wandering Spirit.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: January 24, 2007 10:51

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> some of them are decent enough, but its standard
> cliche cock-rock thats been done to death and done
> much better. I like the song, but lyrically its
> relatively slight.

It is done better lyrically, but the ultimate rock 'n roll band should be allowed to give it another go anytime they want in my book.


> they're not, The overuse of the word 'awful' is
> well..awful

Don't get that statement. So Help by The Beatles is a bad lyric because they sin it so many times? It's just a writer's trick to repeat a word.


> > (Not exactly written with his
> > cock in mind).
>
> wasnt specifically referring to that one when I
> said that. Its basically a poor rewrite of the
> much superior Out of Tears.

No, it just hovers around the same topic. The words in it has a nice flow and the actual song is very well written.


> Maybe to someone whose first language isnt
> English, but some of them are absolutely shocking
> and toe-curlingly embarrassing to my ears. Come
> on, a 61 year old man writing that
> yellow/jello/tits drivel?

That being said it's still valid because A- Everybody knows the feeling of having jello knees when you see a nice pair of bags, and B- You never get too old too rock 'n roll. OK a cliché there, but please hear me out: Ask the question "When are you too old to play rock"? Nobody can answer that. Still you say that a guy that's 61 cannot do a rock 'n roll line, though maybe quite standardish. The lyrics on Biggest Mistake are worse than on ONNYA in my book. Same with LMDS.
"When love comes so late, it'll really hit hard
It slams through the gate, it'll catch you off guard
Everyone said, "What a perfect love match
'Cause she is so smart, she's a hell of a catch".
Jeez Louise that's bad.
And this one:
"If you’ve something to say
Don’t be too direct
'Cause I feel a little fragile
Don’t hit the nail on the head".
*Shivers* *Cringes*


> Its not a disaster, if something of a throwaway,
> but the dreadful lyrics render the song
> unsalvageable IMO

In a way you're right. I don't think the music itself is throwaway at all. It's the new Dance Pt.1 or Slave. It's got nothing to do with wether people agree to the message in the lyrics or not I might add. It's still written like shit.

JumpingKentFlash

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: January 25, 2007 21:08

Let Me Down Slow and Biggest Mistake didn't bother me at all. Streets of Love seems to depend on simple and poor rhymes (sad, bad). The odd good lyric wasn't enough to salvage an uninspired song that didn't even sound like the Stones to me. It's as banal as the worst of GITD. ONNYA and Neo-Con likewise suffer for poor rhymes (wit, tits...wits, shits). Its not a question of 60-something rockers pulling off a rock 'n' roll lyric with conviction. I have no problem with a 50-something Jagger singing Sparks Will Fly (well, apart from the shark line) or So Young. The lyrics could and should have been stronger. Jagger and Richards have always been able to write great pop songs (from Tell Me through Biggest Mistake). I don't mistake them for Wild Horses. The problem is when they just turn out lifeless, cliched material that appears hastily thrown together. This is a problem that has plagued Mick of late. Old Habits Die Hard and Too Far Gone were great. Visions of Paradise and Streets of Love were dreadful. In the case of ONNYA, the press conference performance was great (reminded me of Whip Comes Down), but the studio track was lifeless and dreadfully produced. Don Was' usual flaw is overproducing their rockers (I Go Wild is a prime example), only YGMR, Sparks Will Fly, Saint of Me, and OOC sounded great in the studio and on stage consistently. Sad, Sad, Sad and more recent fare like Love is Strong, Flip the Switch, Rough Justice, and (press conference excluded) ONNYA sounded lifeless. The live gems have tended to be rare tracks like Black Limousine, Rip This Joint, All Down the Line, etc. Its not a question of preferring a particular era, just that I live for the moments when the band is really on fire playing and not just coasting on auto-pilot with Chuck, the back up singers, and horns content to carry the weight.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: January 26, 2007 11:17

I agree a bit on ONNYA, but it wasn't done at the time. And when they took it up live on the tour they really got it going. The trick is to make the studio track a mere sketch for how it's gonna be played live. Check out how YGMR has transformed over time.

One of your remarks doesn't hold up Rocky:
"that didn't even sound like the Stones to me".
when the Stones play it, it sounds like the Stones. Otherwise you're the one with the problem because you're preoccupied about how you think it should sound. If Jagger screams YIIIHAAAAW, Keith plays the bass, Ronnie does the drums and Charlie is on guitar detail that's also the sound of the Stones.


No pun intended.

JumpingKentFlash

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: nanker phelge ()
Date: January 26, 2007 11:33

I didn't really like SOL when it first came out but after having seen the tour this was a surprise song and it really came alive

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 26, 2007 11:44

nanker phelge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't really like SOL when it first came out
> but after having seen the tour this was a surprise
> song and it really came alive


It was a pleasant surprise how good it was when played live. Musically superior and a much more passioned vocal performance which doesnt come across on the studio version.

Great post by Rocky, as usual. Agree with all of what youre saying about throwing together poor and banal rhymes.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Harm ()
Date: January 26, 2007 11:53

Rocky Dijon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
....cliched material that appears hastily thrown together.

Indeed. Well, they needed a new album to tour again. Although I like some tracks a lot (hope to hear Laugh, I nearly died this summer)

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: January 26, 2007 11:57

Maybe it is thrown together in a hurry. The fact that they worked on it since 2004 would suggest otherwise though. Either way the tagline for this album was "Back to basics" and if that is indeed the case, the songs probably should be thrown together in hurry. Just like they did a lot back then.

JumpingKentFlash

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 26, 2007 13:20

The album's terrific. Any gripes I have about a few hastily thrown together and cliched lyrics are relatively minor and somewhat natural when there are so many songs. Overall, its still a far better record than I would have thought them capable of making at this stage of their career.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: January 26, 2007 16:07

Sequencing is important, too. I really think it would have played better like this:

1.Under the Radar
2.Oh No, Not You Again
3.Let Me Down Slow
4.Biggest Mistake
5.Streets of Love
6.Rain Fall Down
7.She Saw Me Coming
8.This Place is Empty
9.Rough Justice
10.Dangerous Beauty
11.Laugh I Nearly Died
12.It Won't Take Long
13.Look What the Cat Dragged In
14.Sweet Neo-Con
15.Infamy
16.Driving Too Fast
17.Don't Wanna Go Home
18.Back of My Hand

I'd probably rank it up there with Voodoo Lounge and Bridges to Babylon had the official disc ran this way.

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: January 26, 2007 17:46

Wonder what would happen if we would scrutinize
Brown Sugar's lyrics as thoroughly as ONNYA... winking smiley

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 26, 2007 18:00

we'd all agree they're far superior

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: wesley ()
Date: January 26, 2007 18:07

Rocky Dijon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sequencing is important, too. I really think it
> would have played better like this:
>
> 1.Under the Radar
> 2.Oh No, Not You Again
> 3.Let Me Down Slow
> 4.Biggest Mistake
> 5.Streets of Love
> 6.Rain Fall Down
> 7.She Saw Me Coming
> 8.This Place is Empty
> 9.Rough Justice
> 10.Dangerous Beauty
> 11.Laugh I Nearly Died
> 12.It Won't Take Long
> 13.Look What the Cat Dragged In
> 14.Sweet Neo-Con
> 15.Infamy
> 16.Driving Too Fast
> 17.Don't Wanna Go Home
> 18.Back of My Hand
>
> I'd probably rank it up there with Voodoo Lounge
> and Bridges to Babylon had the official disc ran
> this way.

From my point of wiev you`re right. I always listen to 10 first songs and leave the rest

W

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: January 26, 2007 18:11

[If you follow the trend, you'd get something like this:]

Drums beating cold English blood runs hot
Lady of the house wondering where its gonna stop
Houseboy knows that he's doing alright
Chocolate pudding with nipples is what he likes

[and later, inevitably]

I bet your mama was a tentshow queen
and all her boyfriends were sweet sixteen
I'm no schoolboy but I love a lark
I thought you were dinner but you were the shark

[Therein lies the problem.]

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 26, 2007 18:15

LMAO

with a 'sharks will cry' chorus, no doubt....

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: January 26, 2007 18:29

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we'd all agree they're far superior

We will all get used to everything, also to ONNYA.

What about "Be-bop-A-Lu-La"
or "A-wop-bop-ba-lo-bop
A Wop-bop-bom"...

Re: oh no not you again
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: January 26, 2007 18:30

Where I can my c#ck s#cked
Where can I get my #ss @#$%&

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