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When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: The Joker ()
Date: December 26, 2006 16:17

It was his trade mark early 70's.

Re: When did Keith stop using mainly five-string custom guitars?
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 26, 2006 18:11

well let's see ... he had Newman-Jones-made buddies in 73, 78, 79 and at least one show in 81;
the Zemaitis in 75/76 and 78, and the replica in 05/06; and the 5-string Travis Bean in 79.
hm, what am i missing? oh yeah: that odd one in the booklet to Pay Pack and Follow,
which has always looked Newman-Jonesy to me (but i'm not sure it's a 5-string),
and in 1988 he borrowed Ronnie's custom single-pickup L5S, which was not technically a 5string,
but Keith only used 5 strings.

so i don't know that Keith ever *mainly* used custom-made 5-strings; 73 and 75/76 are the main times he used them,
but he was using other guitars too, of course. by 78 he wasn't using the custom buddies on that many numbers -
which might have been the case in 73 as well, even though there are a lot of photos of that odd little 73 Newman-Jones buddy.
i reckon Mathijs can tell us what numbers he used it for ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-27 17:00 by with sssoul.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: open-g ()
Date: December 26, 2006 19:37

Well the nut on his 5 string Fender Telecasters are all custom made - so you could say he never stopped winking smiley

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: gwen ()
Date: December 26, 2006 19:57

Also some of his Tele bridge pickups are modified - the magnet under the lower E-string is removed (Thanks Mathijs).

Keith still plays 5-string customs - he owns a 10-string acoustic guitar and maybe 5-string as well. Music Man he said gave him a 5-string Silhouette. His new/old Zemaitis is a 5-string.

Re: When did Keith stop using mainly five-string custom guitars?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: December 27, 2006 01:27

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well let's see ... he had Newman-Jones-made
> buddies in 73, 78, 79 and at least one show in 81;

One show in '81? Wich guitar, and what show? Any pictures?

> hm, what am i missing? oh yeah: that odd one in
> the booklet to Pay Pack and Follow,
> which has always looked Newman-Jonesy to me (but

It's a Newman Jones for sure.

Keith never used that many custom made five-string guitars: there's the Newman Jones guitar in '73, the Zemaitis in 75 until 78, and a new Newman Jones in 79 (and very brief a Travis Bean as well). As far as I know, in '79 he used the Newman Jones only for the encore JJF.

By the way, the nut on the five string Tele's is not adjusted in any way, it's just a regular nut. There's no sense in adjusting the nut if you keep the bridge intact, it would make a guitar very awkward to play.

Mathijs

Re: When did Keith stop using mainly five-string custom guitars?
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 27, 2006 01:32

thank you as always, Mathijs!
do you know what numbers Keith was using the Newman-Jones for in 73?
since there are so many photos of it it seems like he must've used it a lot,
but i'm not sure that's an accurate impression.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 27, 2006 01:36

>> One show in '81? Which guitar, and what show? Any pictures? <<

i'm trying to find the shot - it's the Newman-Jones-made Telecaster ...
stay tuned ... ah yes, here it is! ahem - it's got 6 strings, though, doesn't it. sorry!


- 1981 by Michael Putland (thanks Erik!) courtesy of Mathijs :E



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-28 00:30 by with sssoul.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: cc ()
Date: December 27, 2006 04:49

I can't see the strings, but his hand is in position to play, I think, an F, if the capo is on the 5th fret--probably for "Let It Bleed."

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: December 27, 2006 11:41

cc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't see the strings, but his hand is in
> position to play, I think, an F, if the capo is on
> the 5th fret--probably for "Let It Bleed."

Standard tuning, capo on fifth fret: Waiting on a Friend.

Mathijs

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 27, 2006 15:54

I've sometimes wondered whether Keith decided that a purpose built 5 string guitar just didn't feel right, especially when it's played side by side with conventionally strung instruments.
Keith has the nut cut a little differently to make more room on his 5 string converted Tele's... but the guitar will still feel and play pretty much like a normal six string set up.
I've never played one...but a custom built five string guitar must feel very different when the srings are evenly spaced and the low G is effectively where the six string's low E would be.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: December 27, 2006 16:00

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can't see the strings, but his hand is in
> > position to play, I think, an F, if the capo is
> on
> > the 5th fret--probably for "Let It Bleed."
>
> Standard tuning, capo on fifth fret: Waiting on a
> Friend.
>

Mick also has a capo, difficult to see, maybe at the second? Then it could also be for instance Sweet Virginia.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 27, 2006 16:25

Sweet Virginia in 81? i don't think so.
i believe Mathijs ... have some popcorn.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: ChelseaDrugstore ()
Date: December 27, 2006 16:36

It could also be Let it Bleed, no? I don't know if they used the Capos on LIB. Plus on LIB in 81 Jagger usually still had his shirt plus that hat on. So it proibably is WOAF.
Lady Sssoul, I know this would be asking a lot but is there any way that pics of all the custon 5 strings could be shown together here? They are all spaced out at the moment and it would be great to see them all.
When we are saying the custom 5 string from 75 arre we talking about the skull and crossbone? Did he play that on "Hot Stuff?

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 27, 2006 16:46

Chelsea, the thread about Keith's Custom Guitars and Other Oddballs
has all the 5-strings pretty close together: [www.iorr.org]
and yeah, the 75/76 5-string was the "Pirate" Zemaitis; that one's in the Customs & Oddballs thread
as well as in the Zemaitis thread: [www.iorr.org]

Re: Keith's custom 5strings
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 27, 2006 17:24

ohhh okay okay ... :E

the odd little 73 Newman-Jones (on another thread i found that Mathijs has informed us that Keith used it for
Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice at some shows [including Brussels], Silver Train and Honky Tonk Women):


- 1973 by Robert Knight (courtesy of BrownEyedGirll)

Keith's original Pirate Zemaitis (75/76 and 78):


- 1975 by Michael Zagaris (courtesy of BrownEyedGirll)

another Newman-Jones job, from the Pay Pack & Follow cover art (is it a 5string??)


- 1977 by Elizabeth Milner

the Barbarian Newman-Jones 5string:


- Knebworth, august 11th 1979 by Denis O'Regan

the Barbarian 5string Travis Bean (used on BTMMR):



the replica Pirate Zemaitis (unveiled in 05, used on Sway):


- Ft Lauderdale, march 12th 2006 (courtesy of Kanoka)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-28 09:51 by with sssoul.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: December 27, 2006 18:06

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sweet Virginia in 81? i don't think so.

So Mick has a capo on WOAF as well?

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: December 27, 2006 20:11

Koen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sweet Virginia in 81? i don't think so.
>
> So Mick has a capo on WOAF as well?

Yes. During the tour he played both a six and a 12-string ovation. For WOAF both Jagger and Richards used a capo on he fifth fret to raise the key from C to F, which apparently fitted Jagger's voice better. He used a 12-string acoustic for Let it Bleed on some shows, but also a six string. I guess he was having problems with getting the 12-string in tune.

Mathijs

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: December 27, 2006 20:32

Thanks Mathijs. I guess I got confused because Jaggers capo in the pic above doesn't seem to be that high up the neck. I thought it was on the 1st or 2nd position.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: ChelseaDrugstore ()
Date: December 28, 2006 01:49

Thank you very much Lady sssoul. One in a million..
I was gone from the board all day so I just now saw the pics all together.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

Re: When did Keith stop using mainly five-string custom guitars?
Posted by: open-g ()
Date: December 28, 2006 22:16

Mathijs Wrote:

> By the way, the nut on the five string Tele's is
> not adjusted in any way, it's just a regular nut.
> There's no sense in adjusting the nut if you keep
> the bridge intact, it would make a guitar very
> awkward to play.
>
> Mathijs


I was saying that because I read about it here.



It sounds plausible to keep the D string from falling off.
If you're worried about the strings not alining with the pickup bobbins, I can asure you it doesn't make a difference as I just tried it. after all - Its only ca. 1mm on the nut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-28 22:17 by open-g.

Re: When did Keith stop using mainly five-string custom guitars?
Posted by: gwen ()
Date: December 28, 2006 23:34

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, the nut on the five string Tele's is
> not adjusted in any way, it's just a regular nut.
> There's no sense in adjusting the nut if you keep
> the bridge intact, it would make a guitar very
> awkward to play.
>
> Mathijs

From the close-up posted here :

[www.iorr.org]

I'd say the nut is adjusted.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: December 28, 2006 23:49

I don't see how the D string can "fall off" in any way. If you would adjust any string it's the high E string. Since you tune it down to D there's more slack and there is a small chance you push the string over the sie of the board. I don't see this on any of Keith's guitars (but it would be very hard to see on a picture, even up close), but I would also reckon it would play a bit strange if the spacing is suddenly "off" compard to standard tuned guitars.

By the way, all the articles like the one above all contain mistakes. Even interviews with Chuch McGee or Alan Rogan do contain mistakes. I remember an interview with Chuch from 1984 where he stated that Wood plays the solo of Tumbling Dice in som kind of E9 tuning. I don't think Chuch stated it that way, but the journalist got mixed up.

Mathijs

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 29, 2006 00:25

>> If you would adjust any string it's the high E string <<

that's what i thought they must mean by "first string" in that article -
not that i know beans about it, of course ... have some popcorn, everybody, and go on go on -
i am fascinated as always.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: open-g ()
Date: December 29, 2006 01:20

>> If you would adjust any string it's the high E string <<

naturely the high E string in open G tuning becomes a D string, no?

it is slack, so its even more prone to jump out of the nut groove.
I even damaged a Tele neck pickup, without cover, once.
The string went into the PU-wirering and that was the end for the pickup.
next one I bought was WITH a silver cover.

I admit the big picture doesn't convince me that the nut is altered. it looks regular.
Also it's possible that the article contains mistakes - but on the other hand we don't know how many nuts on this guitar have been replaced.

Re: When did Keith stop to use mainly five-string customed guitars?
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: December 30, 2006 13:49

>> As far as I know, in '79 he used the Newman Jones only for the encore JJF. <<

in the footage from Knebworth he's using it on Honky Tonk Women



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