The best live album ever made for me...

but are there many overdubs on vocals and guitar (maybe even drums???)

When I listen to the Gimme Shelter DVD, it seems so.


Raw Iguana

Yeah, load of overdubs, but still one of the greatest live albums of all time

Exactly right, deuce. I have a book somewhere that discusses all the overdubs, different shows, etc. Still a wonderful listening experience. BTW, always heard that Frampton Comes Alive was almost completely re-recorded in the studio. Deuce, how about KISS Alive?

Yeah, I've heard though about the Frampton album too. KISS Alive is another great live album. Every song on there outshines the studio version. It too has loads of overdubs though. It's a pretty fake product, but it's still cool to listen to. There was a VH1 Ultimate Albums special dedicated to KISS alive where the band members talk about the overdubs and there's a segment of producer Eddie Kramer at the boards showing examples of what he did. If I remember correctly, it's on youtube.

I don't know if I mind the overdubs though. I mean, for Ya Ya's, the sound of the '69 tour is still intact. It's still a great listening experience. If I want an untouched show, I always have the bootlegs I can go to. I mean, Keith's backing vocals on Street Fighting Man may be overdubbed, but hell, it sure sounds good.

Here is all you need to know...

[members.aol.com]

Charlie's good 2nite ain't he

Thanks chippy, great pics!
The link is good too.

Raw Iguana

Has the legendary Apple Acetate ever been booted or torrented?

stone-relics Wrote:
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> Here is all you need to know...
>
> [members.aol.com]


Hey relic- thanks- that guy went to great lenghts to put that together.


I have a couple other boots from 69 ( I ahven't listened to in a while) and it seems Keef did the entire lead on SFTD on those. Did MT take over later in 69?

don't give me that ole one two, one two three four

yeah, Keith did both solos on SFTD at some shows;
at other shows they each took one.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

SFTD is also edited on ya ya ,


Summary of "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!" Recording Information

Six of ten songs are vocal overdubs.
There is one possibility of guitar or instrumental overdubbing.
One song and one instrumental track are from Baltimore 11/26/69.
Two instrumental tracks are from 11/27/69.
Two songs and two instrumental tracks are determined to be 11/28/69 1st, by process of elimination.
One song and one instrumental track are from 11/28/69 2nd.

They cut out one verse at least. You can hear this missing verse on the acetate version. And they also "compiled" a large portion of the in-between-songs chatter to get a perfect sequence. Must have worked for hours on end.

One reason I LOVE IORR is access to boots that aren't overdubbed....getting the 'real' thing. IORR has been great for access to true live recordings.

@brokenhands
It was posted on Hot Stuff a while ago.
Not very spectacular IMHO.

three are MANY acetates of Ya Yas out there, and many more not in circulation. The first is on an OLD Lp called Broadway. Later, other slightly different acetates surfaced, and Can be found on a number of CDs. There are a few others, not in circulation.

JR

To get back to the original topic, Chris M.'s research, which stones-relics posted the link to, shows to me that there is NOT a lot of overdubbing on Ya Ya's. The basic tracks are all original, except for--possibly--one guitar. The band sounds terrific, and what's surprising about the vocal overdubs is that mick's singing on the tour is generally superb, and I doubt any of us would have minded having whatever bad moments were in the original performances. The backing vocals might be another story...

At least what overdubs there are are well done and sound seamless. I would guess that editing the banter took longer than doing the new vocal takes, and they got the right sound. The overdubs on Love You Live are shoddy by comparison, which is strange since it took even longer to come out.

Anyway, it bugs me that this album has a reputation for being a doctored live record, when I think on the whole it's far from.

Was Live at Leeds doctored at all? Perhaps not, as the vocals are sometimes ragged, and it would be almost impossible to match the sounds of those amps in a studio setting.

I have said this many times:

1. There are no musical instruments overdubs on Ya-Ya's.
2. Have of Jagger's lead vox is re-done.
3. All of Richards' background vocals except for HTW is re-done.
4. Stray Cat is from New York, not Baltimore as Chris M. claims.

Mathijs

The fact they bothered to take some time and listen to their live tapes (and do possibly overdubs) is a good thing imo. They cared about the released product apparently and thus had a commitment in giving a good "product".
Far better than having no (or very little) commitment to a live cd, and just let some enigineer have his way. (live licks)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-01 01:24 by barbabang.

cc, to my knowledge, the ORIGINAL live at leeds has no overdubs, just some edits, namely shakin all over which included "spoonful". Unfortunatly subsequent releases of the album have vocal overdubs, not sure why as the vocals were pretty good at the original concert.
One thing that i like more about leeds than I do about ya-yas is it comes from one concert, not several that have been edited together and overdubbed. For me the whole idea of a live album is to hear what a band sounds like on stage, not what they sound like in a studio with audience added.

Good points, now Happy Jack off to the Who board.

In a Guitar Player magizine interview when his first solo album came out,
Taylor said he played the lead on Carol and Keith on Little Queenie.
Yet, GYYYO is your typical live album guitar-stereo mix, one on one side, the other guitar on the other. I'm going back a long time here, but I seem to remember that's what Taylor said. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
Perhaps Taylor was mistaken, but I don't think he ever played any of the Berry-Keith riffs on any other Berry-type tune. IF he did play it, perhaps it was an overdub, hence it's on that side of the stereo picture. I don't have the original boot of that show, so maybe some of you can let me know. I just thought it oddTaylor should say that as those riffs always seemed to belong to Keith.
Also, I always thought the licks on Carol were a bit tame for Keith
as compared to the riffs on Queenie. On Carol, you can almost sense how the next
few bars are gonna go. But that's just me. HOwever, it could be Taylor's mistaken on this. Mind you, I usually pay no attention to what most musicians
say regarding stuff like this (especially Keith, Jimmy Miller, or most of the Stones' camp) regarding who played what and how it got that way.
Most musicians I've talked to from the 60s or 70s when asked about a certain
track have no idea what went on. That happend to me when I talked to Ray Manzerek from the Doors when I asked him about a certain sound.
He said he had no idea, and said I should talk to the engineer. He'd know.

I think its usually pretty easy to tell the differnce between MT and Keef. For example, I thought Keef did the lead on BYe BYe Johnnie every time in 1972. I listen to Vancouver and I am 100% sure that is MT on the lead. And it is nowhere near as good as Keef. MT is too fluid (sometimes that is a liability).

In little bursts sometimes you cna't tell them apart. But if a lead/solo is more than about five ten seconds long- it is pretty easy.

There is no way on earth Keef could have pulled off the second solo on YA YA (live) it would have taken him 100 tries to do it.

don't give me that ole one two, one two three four

Whatever the story on instrumental overdubs, I would like to hear the original of the SFTD that appears on Ya Yas. I have my own thoughts about the hands of Messrs Miller and Johns on that one.

bigfrankie Wrote:
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> I have a couple other boots from 69 ( I ahven't
> listened to in a while) and it seems Keef did the
> entire lead on SFTD on those. Did MT take over
> later in 69?

Prior to the Detroit show, only Richards did the solo at the end. At Detroit and afterwards, they both played leads as on Ya Yas. The only deviations were in Oakland, where at one of the shows Taylor played a solo at the end, and before the tour in Hyde Park, where they ... um ... "weaved". As far as I know, the Ya Yas alternation continued into 1970.

bigfrankie Wrote:
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> 1972. I listen to Vancouver and I am 100%
> sure that is MT on the lead. And it is nowhere
> near as good as Keef. MT is too fluid (sometimes
> that is a liability).

I have not listened to it in a while, but I think Taylor also did the lead in Don't Lie to Me.

Smokey Wrote:
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> Whatever the story on instrumental overdubs, I
> would like to hear the original of the SFTD that
> appears on Ya Yas. I have my own thoughts about
> the hands of Messrs Miller and Johns on that one.

What do you mean, the mixing, or the editing? I assumed the band was responsible for the decision to cut the song. And, really, they almost surely had input on the mix.

My only point in that regard is: I'd like to hear that audience recording. The cutting of a verse from the song is an issue separate from whether the part that remains has overdubs or reflects editing.

The famous 'Watch it!'phrase in Jumpin jack flash was overdubbed from the Rock'n'Roll Circus recording where you can hear it in the same song at 1:51.

Blimey, you need to get out more......

saltoftheearth Wrote:
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> The famous 'Watch it!'phrase in Jumpin jack flash
> was overdubbed from the Rock'n'Roll Circus
> recording where you can hear it in the same song
> at 1:51.

They copied it from the Rock 'n' Roll Circus track and pasted it into the original version? Hadn't the original version already been released?

You should carefully study Chris M's survey to see how much they fooled around with the in-between-songs parts. But there's nothing wrong with that IMO: All in all it's an impressively "un-doctored" album.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-01 18:38 by Greenblues.

KingBee Wrote:
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> The best live album ever made for me...
>
> but are there many overdubs on vocals and guitar
>

Yes, definitely the best of the best of the very best.
One mystery is in Honky Tonk Mick is supposed to say "....in New York City" and instead he say "...in Paris", that would mean HTW was recorded in Paris, not at MSG??

Grichka >> [collateral-interference.blogspot.com]