> Italians get called maccaroni all the time in
> France and we don't make pleas to the UN for this.

Being called "Maccaroni" is like tHe French being called "cheese eaters" and so on. It's a harmless joke about cultural references.
Racism is a completely different matter, and cannot be treated so lightly...

LolA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
such a high concentration of guys on
> trial for corruption affairs...

well, LolA, inthat you missed the most valuable occasion to avoid posting bs

there is no player in trial for this scandal but referees and managers

hope they get what they deserve (that is justice whatever that means),still nothing to do with the winning of the world cup

beside, blatter has been hating italy for a long while and way before this tournament

dunhill and maumau,

all i understand when I read your messages is that you don't accept the lout materazzi to be punished.

you said yourself that you just don't care for what he said .

the important thing is the victory and the red card for zizou

that's all you understand.

that's why things will never change with people like you

I repeat it, the Italian spirit is the worst in soccer !

"there is no player in trial for this scandal but referees and managers"
yes and some of them were on the pitch sunday night...i know the player are not involved.

LolA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "there is no player in trial for this scandal but
> referees and managers"
> yes and some of them were on the pitch sunday
> night...i know the player are not involved.
No, no, no!
All the federation managers, Carraro and Mazzini, involved were expelled from the Federation before the world cup and without being Federation members they could not be on the pitch.
These are blatant lies.
The Italian referee that was supposed to be at the Cup was expelled as well.

stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andy js Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> so, you're saying that the italian lout didn't say
> anything bad to Zidane ?

no. i'm saying i don't care if he did or not. it happens ALL the time in football as ANY player will tell you. he may well have called his mother a whore and him a frog. if someone said either of things to me i'd laugh it off. sticks and stones and all that

stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dunhill and maumau,
>
> all i understand when I read your messages is that
> you don't accept the lout materazzi to be
> punished.
>
> you said yourself that you just don't care for
> what he said .
>
> the important thing is the victory and the red
> card for zizou
>
> that's all you understand.
>
> that's why things will never change with people
> like you
>
> I repeat it, the Italian spirit is the worst in
> soccer !

all you understand is of course all you want to understand
i stated clearly that to equal muslims to terrorists is racist, stupid and if Materazzi said that and get punished for that by FIFA i wont say a word but: well deserved

another thing is to imply that Italy as a team should give the cup back for what Materazzi said

another thing is to justify Zidane's behavior for that (not "understand", which i do an i did from the vey moment - read my posts and try understand better - but "justify" and by doing so making him just a victim)

another thing is to say false information about what is happening to italian soccer. Like dunhill said the previous managers of italian federation have all been fired and already at home while the trial is still on.

you understand these things

or you like to understand other things?

How about the "schwalbe" from Italy against Australia ? Last minute penalty for Italia! Not so fair at all... Who was that player again?

Ok, my mistake dunhill, i didn't check it out.

I think Stonefan has summed it up pretty well. It's 2 completely different spirits. Italians just care about winning, no matter how, with what dirty tricks or whatever. It doesn't matter to them to praise a guy who publicly declares to be so ignorant that he doesn't know what the word "terrorist" means.
On the other hand, French players are human beings before being football players. There are things that matter more to them than winning a world cup, no matter how bad they want to win it, they've got values and integrity.

Andy JS: the fact that racist insults are being used all the time doesn't make them any more acceptable. Little girls and boys are being raped by pedophiles all the time, so do we have to just accept it as well?

LolA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Being called "Maccaroni" is like tHe French being
> called "cheese eaters" and so on. It's a harmless
> joke about cultural references.
> Racism is a completely different matter, and
> cannot be treated so lightly...

good LolA. So go and talk with italians in Germany about what have been said to and of them. Have a look at the german magazines and newspapers and what they were writing of italians up until the semifinal... then we continue the conversation

i see a lot of prejudice here

maybe delusion is not a good advisor

need i repeat before being attacked?
oh yes
muslim=terrorist=racist and idiot offense

SADNESS!!!!!

OH PLEASE... Someone tell the French THEY LOST and they should have... again FRENCH arrogance thinks they should be helped for being call a bad name. PLEASE......ITALY won which makes me happy, I know the US sucks but if England can't win then I go for ITALY. GO HOME FRANCE and CRY.. WHINE like the little school girls you are!!!!!! FROGS!!!! THERE I SAID IT!

Stupidest news ever.

FRANCE LOST HAHAH HAHAH HAHAH AHAH HAHAH HAHAH HAHAHA..........

and LoIA has perfectly explained the differences between both spirits.

I just want to tell you that the article 55 of the FIFA rules is very clear :

if one or many players of a team are convinced of racist insults, then, they can lose the title they won..

it's not my obsession, it's written as a rule which must apply to everyone !

I hope you care for the rules dunhill and maumau ??!!

Justo to make things clear:

1) I think ZZ is the man that broke the rules by hitting Materazzi in the chest, no matter what Materazzi might have told him.
If one player of ours had done anything like that all of Italy would condemn his beaviour and we wouldn't be here complaining and looking for excuses 72 hours after losing the cup because of that
We sucked at Europe 2004 because of Totti being punished for 4 games, in that occasion a pivotal player in our team.
2) I don't care about what Materazzi has said to ZZ. I don't care, it's not what matters, see point 1.
Has he said anything racist? Bad, but we can't tape what a player says throughout the whole game.
Also is ZZ's word against Materazzi's, I guess ZZ is enjoying too much sympathy on this matter.

maumau, all I said is that racism is on another scale, compared to cultural jokes about who eats what. I don't approve nationalism or xenphobia either, from whatever country. In fact, I've been shocked by the number of mean, hateful, primitive nationalist comments I've read in all the football threads.

another stupid jerk, eric has arrived !!

poor boy !!

LolA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, my mistake dunhill, i didn't check it out.
>
> I think Stonefan has summed it up pretty well.
> It's 2 completely different spirits. Italians just
> care about winning, no matter how, with what dirty
> tricks or whatever. It doesn't matter to them to
> praise a guy who publicly declares to be so
> ignorant that he doesn't know what the word
> "terrorist" means.
> On the other hand, French players are human beings
> before being football players. There are things
> that matter more to them than winning a world cup,
> no matter how bad they want to win it, they've got
> values and integrity.
>
> Andy JS: the fact that racist insults are being
> used all the time doesn't make them any more
> acceptable. Little girls and boys are being raped
> by pedophiles all the time, so do we have to just
> accept it as well?

what can i say about this "Ode To The French Player"?

well, maybe you should read more about such a character as Thierry Henry
or accept the fact that that marvellous piece of player that zidane is is not at all new to be violent against other players
or should i send you the tapes of last season of Juventus focusing on the "gentle" play of mr Vieira that has been crowned as the most faulty player if protected by referees' "respect" for the jersey hi wear.
imho the only france player that i know that correspons to the euphestic portrait you made is Thuram

beside that your words are drenched in prejudice and blinded by delusion

according to news the only thing in danger is zidane's best player award.... obviously italy will remain world cup champion... whatever materazzi may have said or not will not change things...zidane is scheduled to give an interview in about two hours and maybe he'll say what happened.. but i think its clear he overeacted..... did i want france to win based on the fact that i thought they were attacking more and looked more elegant (i kept saying "boy france they just look better...")? yes.. but they did not score so end of story... in penalties italy won fair and square...i did not think italian players were dirty or tricky or anything really... its a known fact that in world cup soccer and competitive club football things are said between players of opposing teams...

I am Italian but my family has lived in Belgian Congo from 1910 till 1974.
When french-speaking people call us macaroni they don't do it because what we eat but in a very derogative way.
Italians were doing the most humble jobs in Belgium and we were very much despised.
I remember a few years ago I met this Belgian lady whose father had been a doctor in Congo and I told her my grandfather as well did work there.
She asked me if he was a miner, as all Italians were in Belgium.
My grand father was chief manager of a division of Union Miniere in Kolwezi, not a miner, still he was Italian.

stoned_in_dc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> according to news the only thing in danger is
> zidane's best player award.... obviously italy
> will remain world cup champion... whatever
> materazzi may have said or not will not change
> things...zidane is scheduled to give an interview
> in about two hours and maybe he'll say what
> happened.. but i think its clear he
> overeacted..... did i want france to win based on
> the fact that i thought they were attacking more
> and looked more elegant (i kept saying "boy france
> they just look better...")? yes.. but they did not
> score so end of story... in penalties italy won
> fair and square...i did not think italian players
> were dirty or tricky or anything really... its a
> known fact that in world cup soccer and
> competitive club football things are said between
> players of opposing teams...

i like to subscribe every word

infact one thing here in this funny thread is passing without a deserved answer: that italian players play dirty and do tricks. Well I might have agreed before the competition but i think during this world cup italians behaved fair, certainly more than many other teams. Exspecially after the crazy fault by De Rossi that was rightly punished, italians did not behave us usual.
I know that stereotypes are hard to change but...

face the facts: w-e--s-c-o-r-e-d--f-i-v-e--p-e-n-a-l-t-i-e-s

what does it have to do with sport ???!!!!

you're talking about ancient times !!

don't mix history and sport otherwise we're gonna talk about what the antic roma did all over Europe, the millions of people they have slaughtered !!!

so you'd better put your historic references away !

i may quibble about the italian team's soccer style but i know it was faithful to their tradition so i respect that...italy played their game and they were very sucesful... who can argue with that? i think france played their game too..but their only score was a penalty...they were not sucesful .. they got very close of course...

there was no real trickery, not much fouling or diving or anything.. italy played quite fairly.. in fact the french defenders were quite physical in the game... materazzi talking to zidane or holding his shirt cannot be considered unfair..


again, i wanted france to win because i like their style more but i don't think an observer of the final can say italy played unfairly.... if anyone made any significant dive it was france at the beginning in the play that got them the penalty..

and in the semi against germany i thought italy played better defeating the host...

what this whole thread proves is that people have their stereotypes.. i've noticed this with my team, argentina, too.. no matter what argentina does we are cheaters and just terrible poeple... never mind that three goals argentina scored legitimately were disallowed.. never mind that argentina played largely attractive attacking football...never mind the ref in the germany game who clearly favored germany at every instance (to be expected i will grant you given situation)....none of that can compare to people's preconceived notions largely fed by the english language (read: england) press which is obsessed with the hand of god goal.... stereotypes - somewhat earned perhaps in the case of argentina- and italy's stingy catenaccio style are very hard to undo once they take root.... look at brazil: they played pathetic uninspiring soccer and people still talk about their samba soccer and jogo bonito.. look at beckham: the worlds most overrated player and television commentators still swoon every time he touches the ball and he's still on the cover of every US newspaper (i grant you the US is not a bastion of soccer knowledge but....)

Sorry folks

but if the Italian said racist stuf he shouldn't have done so and should be reprimanded accordingly.....this would send out a message to fans and players alike, ban him for life.

Who cares about 22 overpaid morons on a pitch kicking a bag of wind about? And that's an insult to morons!!! For petes sake people get a grip it's only a game. It's not like the world will end or for that matter it's not like the whole tour has been cancelled.

NickB

ps Eric your comments were unhelpful. Goodbye you are the weakest link!!!

NickB,

how do you propose to find out what Materazzi said?

i agree that if he said something racist ...well thats no good.. and they should try to do something... but

1. how would you even find out? based on what zidane says? should we have little recording devices each player wears so we find out what they said and punish them?

2. is there any precedent for punishing players for what they say between themselves? i for one don't know it..

Employ a lip reader perhaps? You can see what he said on the footage.

Then ban him if said racist stuff. That would set the precedent.

NickB

well how do you know there is footage of everything he said available??? was there a camera on him the whole time?

and you propose to ban him from what? all soccer i suppose? forever?

is there a rule that says FIFA can do that? or do you propose to make one up on the spot to fit the "crime"?

Muddyw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about the "schwalbe" from Italy against
> Australia ? Last minute penalty for Italia! Not so
> fair at all... Who was that player again?


how about Henry falling over a leg for a penalty against Italy ? or Henry falling down holding his face earlier in the tournament when nobody touched his face ? or did i imagine those moments ?

proof alone that cheats don't prosper

NickB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Employ a lip reader perhaps? You can see what he
> said on the footage.


if i'm not mistaken, various news stations have tried this already and each one has come back with a different set of words

it can't be done