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Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: otonneau ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:13

Dunhill, in a way you are right, it's Zidane who lost it.
In another way you are right, it's ugly to boo anthems and so on.
In a third way you are right, there's been too much insulting the Italian team.
I didn't know what you said, that the italians had been quick to acknowledge De Rossi's ugly gesture etc, very fairplay attitude.

Now let's then keep at the same standards and regret that a player like Materazzi insults and provokes his opponent on the pitch. It's lowlife behaviour, although it is not sanctionned by the rules.

As for Zidane, the reason we feel sorry for him is that he was not trying to cheat, he was not trying to win anything from his gesture, it was not calculated or vicious, he just... lost it. His gesture, mind you, is not even dangerous. So it's sad rather than despicable. It would have been a completely different matter Had he discreetly hurt an opponent to gain a free kick, or if he had broken Materazzi's nose and let him bleeding on the pitch. Then he would have been booed by all, French included, I'm sure.

So there's no debate; Materazzi had a strategy and it worked and Zidane should not have lost it. But it's up to you to decide what attracts your sympathy, a calculating man with a dirty plan or a man who loses his temper for a split second...

However, I don't want to generalize, start speaking about Italia and italians etc. congrats for your victory.

Edit: had not read your post about Materazzi's interview. Well... seems likely, doesn't it?...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-11 12:16 by otonneau.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: andy js ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:13

jagger50 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wouldn't you just love to know what he said to
> Zidane.


not really. maybe he criticised his hair or something. in the end it doesn't matter. if ZZ was that bothered he could have floored him after the final whistle. instead he chose to let down his team mates and the whole country that we backing him to win the cup for em

what a way to end a career. he'll be forever known as the yellow headbutt king

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:20

andy js Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jagger50 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wouldn't you just love to know what he said to
> > Zidane.
>
>
> not really. maybe he criticised his hair or
> something. in the end it doesn't matter. if ZZ was
> that bothered he could have floored him after the
> final whistle. instead he chose to let down his
> team mates and the whole country that we backing
> him to win the cup for em
>
> what a way to end a career. he'll be forever known
> as the yellow headbutt king

yes probably for you but not French and not the rest of the world
it's typically english isn't it ? always prompt to put France down or happy just because France lost !

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: andy js ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:39

i love France. its a great country. and i shall be visiting Brittany again next month

its just the people that live there that are the problem ;o)

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:41

andy js Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i love France. its a great country. and i shall be
> visiting Brittany again next month
>
> its just the people that live there that are the
> problem ;o)


LOL !
because they don't speak english good enough ?

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: dunhill ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:45

I was not incensed by Zidane's reaction, I was not appalled, he simply deserved a red card for such a reaction, that's it.
Things like these can happen so I am ok with Zidane, I guess he has a problem to deal with the French because of the consequences of this act, not with Italian who really don't care about what he's done.

BTW what do you think about Blatter not showing up to hand us the Cup?

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: andy js ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:45

or use deodorant

lol

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 12:51

dunhill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was not incensed by Zidane's reaction, I was not
> appalled, he simply deserved a red card for such a
> reaction, that's it.
> Things like these can happen so I am ok with
> Zidane, I guess he has a problem to deal with the
> French because of the consequences of this act,
> not with Italian who really don't care about what
> he's done.
>
> BTW what do you think about Blatter not showing up
> to hand us the Cup?


In France, we were also shocked by his reaction and did not understand why he did that. There was provocation from materazzi for sure. He finally admitted he insulted him.
But Zizou is already forgiven because he is Zizou, one of the greatest players ever !

honestly, I absolutely don't know why Blatter was not there to give the cup to Italy.
do you know why ?

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: andy js ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:07

according to the paper today

when Materazzi grabbed Zidane's shirt, Z said 'if you want my shirt that bad, you can have it after the game'. Materazzi responded by saying 'i'd rather have your wifes'

a truly dreadful thing to say. and one worthy of ruining your countries last chance at winning a world cup over i think you'll agree

lol

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: dunhill ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:13

andy js Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> according to the paper today
>
> when Materazzi grabbed Zidane's shirt, Z said 'if
> you want my shirt that bad, you can have it after
> the game'. Materazzi responded by saying 'i'd
> rather have your wifes'
Oh my God, he was fooled by the stupidest and most common thing to hear in a football match?
I can't believe it.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: ituim ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:27

The French lost three times: 1)Zidane, the best French footballer ever, a French Icon and symbol of the multicultural France, kicked himself out of a world cup final and ended his wonderful career miserably by being not able to answer a verbal provocation only with words. 2)Italy scored all penalty knicks avenging what happened in France in 1998 3)Trezeguet, who had scored the golden goal in the Euro 2000 final, missed his penalty kick and condemned his team.
Sorry France but la "grandeur française" is over. It's time for you to learn how to lose...
As Italians we will enjoy tonight's show in Milan even more. I can't wait to see Mick with the Italian team's t-shirt...
CAMPIONI DEL MONDO!

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: dunhill ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:31


Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:32

ituim,

I hope you will learn that your sense of provocation, rudeness and arrogance can be punished too !

we will see in september what it's all about. I hope we will put you out with the right manners without using insults which is a habit with italian players !

you will see that "la grandeur française" is still alive !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-11 13:35 by stonefan.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: novica ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:35

frank ribery is next zidane!

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: MicksBrain ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:36

MicksBrain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As most of you know by now since it's all over the
> news, SUPPOSEDLY, since Zidane is of Arab/Algerian
> ancestry, he called him a "Dirty Terrorist"...
> (that's what all the US Sports shows are
> saying)....

Once again, this is what's being reported about what was said.....

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: Adriano ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:37

Yes ituim, French should learn how to lose.
Shut up for a while. You lost. We won.
Le jour de merde est arrivé!

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:42

people just read what rude and vulgar italian write on this board

they go on insulting french because they totally support the most agressive and rude player in the world !

Great !!!

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:43

stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> people just read what rude and vulgar italians
> write on this board
>
> they go on insulting french because they totally
> support the most agressive and rude player in the
> world !
>
> Great !!!

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: ituim ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:53

...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-11 13:56 by ituim.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: ituim ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:53

Stonefan,

if you read my post attentively you would find that I just expressed my opinions without insulting anyone. Probably, you find people who have different opinons rude and aggressive. Typical of those who can't lose.
Honestly, as a football fan, I think Zidane missed a great chance to show people across the world that phisical violence should not be the answer. He's a loser as a man.
Anyways, I CAMPIONI DEL MONDO will have another memorable night tonight at the San Siro Stadium!!!

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:55

otonneau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dunhill, in a way you are right, it's Zidane who
> lost it.
> In another way you are right, it's ugly to boo
> anthems and so on.
> In a third way you are right, there's been too
> much insulting the Italian team.
> I didn't know what you said, that the italians had
> been quick to acknowledge De Rossi's ugly gesture
> etc, very fairplay attitude.
>
> Now let's then keep at the same standards and
> regret that a player like Materazzi insults and
> provokes his opponent on the pitch. It's lowlife
> behaviour, although it is not sanctionned by the
> rules.
>
> As for Zidane, the reason we feel sorry for him is
> that he was not trying to cheat, he was not trying
> to win anything from his gesture, it was not
> calculated or vicious, he just... lost it. His
> gesture, mind you, is not even dangerous. So it's
> sad rather than despicable. It would have been a
> completely different matter Had he discreetly hurt
> an opponent to gain a free kick, or if he had
> broken Materazzi's nose and let him bleeding on
> the pitch. Then he would have been booed by all,
> French included, I'm sure.
>
> So there's no debate; Materazzi had a strategy and
> it worked and Zidane should not have lost it. But
> it's up to you to decide what attracts your
> sympathy, a calculating man with a dirty plan or a
> man who loses his temper for a split second...
>
> However, I don't want to generalize, start
> speaking about Italia and italians etc. congrats
> for your victory.
>
> Edit: had not read your post about Materazzi's
> interview. Well... seems likely, doesn't it?...


C'mon, Otonneau, you try a little bit too hard to talk the responsibility of Zidane out of it. I symphatize Zidane very much, his ethnic background, magical skills, etc, and he was the best player in the tournament, but there is no justification for what he did. And he did in the front of half of the population of earth watching it. Stupid violent bully reaction that perhaps ruined his team's changes (well, they were in that position thanks to him, but anyway..). That Italian player is an arsehole, we all know that, but for some reason Zidane couldn't cope with it. No one can sympathize Materazzi's provocation - but that is not the point. Zidane's violent reaction was what mattered. I find that tragical, and I feel deeply sorry for him.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-11 13:57 by Doxa.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 13:58

ituim,

I maintain what I said...you are extremely arrogant, just read back your message

and also if you have some time left, just read adriano's message a little bit above.
he insulted the french anthem...ok i know it's a habit by italian players and supporters, so it's not important for you.

we, french, don't need to insult or use bad manners to win.
everybody says it, not only me.

That's the difference between the french and italian spirit !

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: andy js ()
Date: July 11, 2006 14:42

"No one can sympathize Materazzi's provocation"

i can. i don't find saying you want someone wife's shirt offensive at all

as Martin O'Neil said after the game. during a match, every 15 seconds or so you will be insulted or wound up by your opponent. its part of the game. if they can say something and take your mind off the job for even 1 second they get an advantage

if ZZ can't take that, its a good job he's retired.

the French should take a leaf out of the English book, and learn how to lose. we do it so well yawning smiley)

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: otonneau ()
Date: July 11, 2006 14:51

"C'mon, Otonneau, you try a little bit too hard to talk the responsibility of Zidane out of it."

No, no, he's responsible alright, and in fact I agree with all you say! We forgive him and feel sorry for him, because we like him so much and we believe he is not a mean man at heart. But to forgive and sympathise with his own pain does not equal saying it's not his fault!

I just find it so sad because it should have been a great hurrah (either in victory or defeat) and I'm sure he cannot quite believe what he did himself. Too sad to be angry, but I don't confuse responsability issues.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: stonefan ()
Date: July 11, 2006 14:55

when I watch the pictures, I don't really think that materazzi is talking about zidane's wife jersey !

I'm sure it is something else.
He admitted he insulted Zizou but did not say what exactly.

let's wait a few more days for Zidane's version instead of a lout's one



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-11 14:56 by stonefan.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: otonneau ()
Date: July 11, 2006 15:08

"as Martin O'Neil said after the game. during a match, every 15 seconds or so you will be insulted or wound up by your opponent. its part of the game. if they can say something and take your mind off the job for even 1 second they get an advantage"

Yeah right, sure, that's the way it's done, big deal if you ask me. What does that change? It's part of what the game is, but it's not part of the game as i should be. The game is still about dribbling and scoring, and the fact that everybody does these ugly things do not make them any better looking. Everybody does it, so it's right to do it. That's a very bad argument, in fact it's not an argument. If Martin O' Neil finds it cool, he's just rolling with the habits of his profession and it doesn't make him a better judge than I am.

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: MicksBrain ()
Date: July 11, 2006 15:18

For the 3rd time,

He called Zidane a DIRTY TERRORIST cause he has Arab/Algerian Parents -


it's all over the news in the US (not that Football is considered very important in the US unfortunately but when they talk about the Zidane headbutt they say this is why)

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Date: July 11, 2006 15:28

here's another link to the italian-mamas-darlings - watch especially the last 10 seconds :





of course our italian friends will lecture us that little boy gattuso was "provoked"
- the rest of us now recognize this as "normal" italian football-behaviour - notice that only non-italian players try to make mama's bad boy behave....

congratulations.....

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: rknuth ()
Date: July 11, 2006 15:33

Now the Italien "minister" Calderoli is offending the Team Tricolor by calling them nigger and communists without any roots!

Oh boy, poor Italy...

For you who understand German:
( [portale.web.de] )

Re: OT: Today is the day of FRANCE
Posted by: dunhill ()
Date: July 11, 2006 15:34

Come on, let's call it a thread.Cup is over, Italy won, deal with it.

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