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Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: October 29, 2019 12:48
I really hate the appearance of a factory fresh Cherry Burst ...
...but they do fade to some gorgeous subtle and warm shades...so I'm rather glad that these altogether nicer colours are mimicked in modern production.
...but they do fade to some gorgeous subtle and warm shades...so I'm rather glad that these altogether nicer colours are mimicked in modern production.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: October 29, 2019 14:17
Mick Taylor doing what he is supposed to do with a Les Paul. Listen and enjoy.
Bob Dylan and Mick Taylor. I and I.
Bob Dylan and Mick Taylor. I and I.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: October 29, 2019 15:47
the Infidels album is a beauty .
MT & MK both in good form.
MT & MK both in good form.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: October 29, 2019 16:09
Quote
Spud
the Infidels album is a beauty .
You haven't really listened to it till you heard the outtakes (boots and Bottleg series). The 1983 official version is a shameful travesty of what it could have been ("thanks" to Dylan who butchered the final tracklist, much to the dismay of co-producer Mark Knopfler!)
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: October 29, 2019 17:25
Quote
Erik_Snow
There's hours of rehearsals from Los Angeles, May 1984, available via torrents and bootlegs
Any titles?
I think I have only heard the Infidels outtakes, although that sounds familiar.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: October 29, 2019 18:02
I have the two cd's recorded at Beverly Theatre LA May 23,24,25, 1984 - Dirty Lies
1984 tour rehersals
Jokerman
ALL Along Watchtower
Just Like a Woman
Highwy 61
I and I
Girl From the North Country
Shelter From The Storm
License to Kill
Ballad of a thin man
When you gonna wake up
To Romana
Instrumnetal 1
Jam
Instrumnetal 2
Jam
Instrumnetal 3
Almost Done 1
Almost Done 2
Almost Done 3
Almost Done 4
Almost done 5
Enough is enough
Dirty Lies
To Each His own
Instrumntal 4
Have not listened to it for some time .
1984 tour rehersals
Jokerman
ALL Along Watchtower
Just Like a Woman
Highwy 61
I and I
Girl From the North Country
Shelter From The Storm
License to Kill
Ballad of a thin man
When you gonna wake up
To Romana
Instrumnetal 1
Jam
Instrumnetal 2
Jam
Instrumnetal 3
Almost Done 1
Almost Done 2
Almost Done 3
Almost Done 4
Almost done 5
Enough is enough
Dirty Lies
To Each His own
Instrumntal 4
Have not listened to it for some time .
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
CBII
()
Date: October 29, 2019 18:05
Quote
Phil GoodQuote
Spud
Some players are also gear heads and/or guitar collectors ... but for others the guitar is just a tool of the trade.
Think Chuck Berry.
He made that really clear back then in the movie "Hail Hail RnR"
Tools ...
Yeah, what my father said in Hail! Hail! Rock and Roll about guitar was a bit tongue in cheek. He did have quite a few over the years but there were some he absolutely cherished. His 1978 ES-355 (SECOND)he absolutely loved and it played more shows with it than any other guitar in his collection. That one saw nearly 38 years of duty. It was his "Go To" guitar for live performances and recording sessions.
He LOVED playing his guitar. As he got older, the playing for fun slowed down but there were countless times when he would call me over just to show me some stuff he wanted to play.
He did not need to pick up his guitar to make money, he just still loved doing it.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: October 29, 2019 18:15
Quote
TravelinManAny titles?Quote
Erik_Snow
There's hours of rehearsals from Los Angeles, May 1984, available via torrents and bootlegs
I think I have only heard the Infidels outtakes, although that sounds familiar.
"Angel Of Rain" from Rattlesnake is probably the best commercial bootleg, and there's an old one "Dirty Lies" ; but you can get it in better quality and more complete via torrents.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: October 29, 2019 22:36
Quote
Mathijs
Taylor's stint with Dylan was flawed like hell. First off he didn't play on '30 tracks', but on selected tracks. Then he was missing in action for several gigs, prompting Dylan to fly in high profiled guitarists like Knopfler and even Santana.
FWIW, Knopfler did not play onstage with Dylan in 1984. He attended a show (the Wembley show, same as Jagger), but he was not onstage.
Just an opinion, I'd say Taylor on REAL LIVE is about as stunning as Taylor on YA-YA'S.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-29 22:39 by Rocky Dijon.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: October 29, 2019 23:19
[www.youtube.com]
Bob Dylan and Mark Knopfler, MT, Sly and Robbie - Don't fall apart on me tonight
What a groove and MT laid back on the slide. Dylan.s great nasal groove vocal.
Bob Dylan and Mark Knopfler, MT, Sly and Robbie - Don't fall apart on me tonight
What a groove and MT laid back on the slide. Dylan.s great nasal groove vocal.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: October 30, 2019 04:56
Quote
SpudQuote
S.T.PQuote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
I have one more question that you might have an answer to..? What's your opinion on what type of burst the 1972 guitar had... tea burst or cherry burst?
The original 58 to 60 bursts were of course all the same "Cherry Burst" from the factory...but differing subsequent histories & varying exposure to light down the years caused the finishes to fade & age differently .
This was exacerbated by changes to the red dye used in later production , which was very light sensitive and faded almost completely... to result in that finish that today we call "Unburst" .
All the other names, "Honey Burst", "Tea Burst" "Lemon Burst" etc are just names invented for attempts to mimic some the various ways in which the old guitars have faded and mellowed.
Hey, I didn’t ask that question!
It is interesting info though. I didn’t know they were trying to mimic old fades, except for the unburst.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-30 04:59 by TravelinMan.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TornAndFried
()
Date: October 30, 2019 06:41
Quote
CBIIQuote
Phil GoodQuote
Spud
Some players are also gear heads and/or guitar collectors ... but for others the guitar is just a tool of the trade.
Think Chuck Berry.
He made that really clear back then in the movie "Hail Hail RnR"
Tools ...
Yeah, what my father said in Hail! Hail! Rock and Roll about guitar was a bit tongue in cheek. He did have quite a few over the years but there were some he absolutely cherished. His 1978 ES-355 (SECOND)he absolutely loved and it played more shows with it than any other guitar in his collection. That one saw nearly 38 years of duty. It was his "Go To" guitar for live performances and recording sessions.
He LOVED playing his guitar. As he got older, the playing for fun slowed down but there were countless times when he would call me over just to show me some stuff he wanted to play.
He did not need to pick up his guitar to make money, he just still loved doing it.
This is great to hear. Thanks for sharing. By the way where is this 1978 ES-355 you mentioned now?
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
S.T.P
()
Date: October 30, 2019 16:38
Quote
TravelinManQuote
SpudQuote
S.T.PQuote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
I have one more question that you might have an answer to..? What's your opinion on what type of burst the 1972 guitar had... tea burst or cherry burst?
The original 58 to 60 bursts were of course all the same "Cherry Burst" from the factory...but differing subsequent histories & varying exposure to light down the years caused the finishes to fade & age differently .
This was exacerbated by changes to the red dye used in later production , which was very light sensitive and faded almost completely... to result in that finish that today we call "Unburst" .
All the other names, "Honey Burst", "Tea Burst" "Lemon Burst" etc are just names invented for attempts to mimic some the various ways in which the old guitars have faded and mellowed.
Hey, I didn’t ask that question!
It is interesting info though. I didn’t know they were trying to mimic old fades, except for the unburst.
I asked the question, but didn't see the answer before now. Interesting indeed! Thanks alot
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: November 2, 2019 23:36
Quote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 3, 2019 00:29
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: November 3, 2019 00:35
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: November 3, 2019 04:09
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Right, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad. Otherwise The Rolling Stones wouldn’t be good music because most in academia don’t consider it good music.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 3, 2019 10:20
Quote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Right, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad. Otherwise The Rolling Stones wouldn’t be good music because most in academia don’t consider it good music.
Then it's bad for them. It's their opinions. There are no facts when it comes to acquired taste, only opinions.
But was it really Mathijs's taste you were referring to when you asked him to do better research?
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 3, 2019 12:23
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Right, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad. Otherwise The Rolling Stones wouldn’t be good music because most in academia don’t consider it good music.
Then it's bad for them. It's their opinions. There are no facts when it comes to acquired taste, only opinions.
But was it really Mathijs's taste you were referring to when you asked him to do better research?
Gentlemen, I think the semantical confusion here arises from Mathijs not really distinguishing himself "facts" from "opinions", that is, has a habit of presenting most of he says more like as facts than as opinions. Then again, seeing, say, Taylor as playing unrehearsed is a bit different thing than not liking what he plays. It could be an educated guess, but still belonging to the realm of opinions and not stating a fact.
- Doxa
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: November 3, 2019 12:42
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Right, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad. Otherwise The Rolling Stones wouldn’t be good music because most in academia don’t consider it good music.
Then it's bad for them. It's their opinions. There are no facts when it comes to acquired taste, only opinions.
But was it really Mathijs's taste you were referring to when you asked him to do better research?
Gentlemen, I think the semantical confusion here arises from Mathijs not really distinguishing himself "facts" from "opinions", that is, has a habit of presenting most of he says more like as facts than as opinions. Then again, seeing, say, Taylor as playing unrehearsed is a bit different thing than not liking what he plays. It could be an educated guess, but still belonging to the realm of opinions and not stating a fact.
- Doxa
I cannot help but thinking that Mathijs has a love-hate relationship with Taylor. In a way I have the same, although I only emphasise the musical side of it, not Taylor's lifestyle, certainly not on a public site like iorr.org. There are many musicians that blew their life by substance abuse or whatever inner demons. Why pick Taylor?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-03 12:54 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 3, 2019 13:09
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Right, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad. Otherwise The Rolling Stones wouldn’t be good music because most in academia don’t consider it good music.
Then it's bad for them. It's their opinions. There are no facts when it comes to acquired taste, only opinions.
But was it really Mathijs's taste you were referring to when you asked him to do better research?
Gentlemen, I think the semantical confusion here arises from Mathijs not really distinguishing himself "facts" from "opinions", that is, has a habit of presenting most of he says more like as facts than as opinions. Then again, seeing, say, Taylor as playing unrehearsed is a bit different thing than not liking what he plays. It could be an educated guess, but still belonging to the realm of opinions and not stating a fact.
- Doxa
And that's your opinion, or a fact?
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: November 3, 2019 16:18
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Right, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad. Otherwise The Rolling Stones wouldn’t be good music because most in academia don’t consider it good music.
Then it's bad for them. It's their opinions. There are no facts when it comes to acquired taste, only opinions.
But was it really Mathijs's taste you were referring to when you asked him to do better research?
Originally? No, my comment was in regards to the Dylan stuff. Stuff like flying in Knopfler just didn’t happen. Stuff he was saying was completely the opposite of what is in print, like in the Dylan bio.
The fact he said he was unrehearsed yet played “the same five shitty songs for 25 years” is funny. Taylor may be a big name to players, but that doesn’t mean you always get a sound check at every little club you play. Especially if you’re on a tour playing somewhere new every night. Why can he be so definite that rehearsing (I think he means sound checking) was in Taylor’s hands? Just because you say something with authority does not make it a fact. Peeking back over the years, you and him have both changed/evolved your statements on many many things.
Also, he definitely rehearsed with the Stones before the 2012 stuff as it was reported by Stones fans. The Stones gave him a few spots a night to do his improv thing. If he’s not up to the level he was in 1972, well news flash, not a single person in the band is.
Besides, instead of defending Mathjis, what’s YOUR actual take? You claim to love the sloppy, fly by the seat of their pants Stones. So Taylor running a ragged (albeit entertaining and impressive IMO) show at clubs in the 80’s must be enjoyable?
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 3, 2019 16:42
Quote
TravelinManQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
We've all heard loads of these shows. That goes for Mathijs as well, of course.
Do you really doubt him doing his research?
No, I don't, but that doesn't take away his opinions are a bit biased. That's only human of course.
Opinions will always be opinions. How can opinions be anything but biased?
I thought you're implying that his research represents the truth. At least that's what I read between the lines.
Right, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad. Otherwise The Rolling Stones wouldn’t be good music because most in academia don’t consider it good music.
Then it's bad for them. It's their opinions. There are no facts when it comes to acquired taste, only opinions.
But was it really Mathijs's taste you were referring to when you asked him to do better research?
Originally? No, my comment was in regards to the Dylan stuff. Stuff like flying in Knopfler just didn’t happen. Stuff he was saying was completely the opposite of what is in print, like in the Dylan bio.
The fact he said he was unrehearsed yet played “the same five shitty songs for 25 years” is funny. Taylor may be a big name to players, but that doesn’t mean you always get a sound check at every little club you play. Especially if you’re on a tour playing somewhere new every night. Why can he be so definite that rehearsing (I think he means sound checking) was in Taylor’s hands? Just because you say something with authority does not make it a fact. Peeking back over the years, you and him have both changed/evolved your statements on many many things.
Also, he definitely rehearsed with the Stones before the 2012 stuff as it was reported by Stones fans. The Stones gave him a few spots a night to do his improv thing. If he’s not up to the level he was in 1972, well news flash, not a single person in the band is.
Besides, instead of defending Mathjis, what’s YOUR actual take? You claim to love the sloppy, fly by the seat of their pants Stones. So Taylor running a ragged (albeit entertaining and impressive IMO) show at clubs in the 80’s must be enjoyable?
Thanks for asking (and I wasn't really defending Mathijs, although he is probably among the top 5 posters here when it comes to do research about The Stones. Hence I thought your comment was funny).
I think that the Taylor solo shows were uneven. Some are great (Boston 1988), others were horrible (Oslo 1995). I attended five of his solo shows, and it was the same there. On a good day it was pure joy. However, like with The Stones the setlists turn predictable as the years pass.
I also catched a Bluesbreakers-show, but unluckily I got too drunk to enjoy it.
I wish I saw him with Dylan as those shows seemed more consistent, and he had better material to shine on. Judging from Real Live, bootlegs and youtube here.
Was Taylor unrehearsed? Probably. However, this generation players often are. There is a wing it-approach, and sometimes that works fine. Other times, considering material on his first album, it can be tough to get away with.
I've seen Taylor happy, in great shape - playing wonderfully, but I've also seen him angry, uneasy and drunk/stoned - putting on a poor show. But that goes for other musicians we know well, too
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: November 3, 2019 17:20
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I also catched a Bluesbreakers-show, but unluckily I got too drunk to enjoy it.
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: November 3, 2019 18:32
Mark Knopfler toured with Dire Straits from Nov 1982 to July 1983. Dylan released Infidels in October 1983 and had to fire Mark as producer because of the Dire Straits tour and that Dylan was in charge and selected the tracks for the album and thus he choose not to put the gems like Blind Willie etc on the record. Based on what I can find Dylan did not fly in MK for the 1984 tour to help out. Greg Sutton the bass player commented how great MT was on the tour for the most part in Clinton Heylin book about Dylan Behind the Shades.
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