Re: Mick T's Guitars
Date: July 8, 2006 00:42
To all reading this: my apologies for again hijacking this thread. But, “Stranger” has made some points I would like to react to. So, here it goes.
Again, I am not interested in the personal lives of any of the Stones members. I really don’t care about their houses, their wives or their financial situation. I have never ever made any statements of any sorts about this, and I never will. I am a guitarist myself, I live, eat and breath guitars, and this is, next to the music my only interest concerning the Stones.
My one-sentence remark “Taylor sold his LP’s in the early to sustain his drug addiction” boosted you to write large mails to correct me in all sorts of things I never ever pretended to have any knowledge about. Then, a problem is that you keep your name hidden, so it is hard to judge your opinion and stated facts. If you are who I think you are, we have met a couple of times (also through other people), and we agreed to disagree. The fact that you know the Taylor of today does not make you an expert on the last 30 years.
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Taylor is not receiving royalties from ABKCO (Allen Klein), although they should be accounting to him for the records that they sell in the US/Canada territory. MT might not have anything against Allen Klein personally but AK's company still owes him a substantial amount of money (For Ventilator Blues alone ABKCO have confirmed they know that there is £ 350.000 in an account somewhere - which is MT's share of the publishing money for that one song).
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This is not correct, and it’s impossible for ABKCO to confirm they have money for this song. The holder to the rights to Ventilator Blues has never been ABKCO/Klein. The original publisher was Cansel Ltd, andit was sub-published by EMI Publishing Ltd. Mick Taylor received a special copyright on this song in 1972, and in 1980 the copyright was assigned to Tony Roberts Music Ltd. Now the song is published by EMI Publishing and Belfern Publishing, i.a.w. Musidor B.V.. The latter is the publishing firm of the Stones, a sub-business of Promopub BV. Allen Klein. Klein holds the rights to (from top of my head) four tracks on Exile, written while the Stones were still with Klein, but not to VB. As Taylor co-wrote the song, he is entitled to the part of the writing credits and these are paid to him directly, without interference with any Stones-lead company. If Jagger & CO. refused to pay Taylor that money then Taylor would have sued Promopub- a very easy case that even Jagger will rather avoid. As I have said before (and you never responded to that), Taylor has NEVER sued the Stones for anything.
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Decca is the only record company that is paying MT for Stones records. This is only a tiny amount, because Decca is the label they were signed to during the Brian Jones era.
Since MT's work is embodied in a couple of records of the Decca catalogue, they figured it was reasonable to pay him a percentage of the artist royalties generated by those records
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Again not correct. The rights to the DECCA albums belong to Klein and Essex Publishing, DECCA was only the distributor. The money for Taylor’s two tracks on Let it Bleed, the Get Your Ya-Ya’s album and Metamorphosis lie with Klein, who should pay Taylor. Klein never acted as a middle man between the Stones and the record company, which was his selling point. In the days before Klein, the record company kept all the rights and paid all fees to the artist. A publishing agency would then act as a middle man between artist and record company. Klein changed that: he made the record company only the distributor, while he would keep all other rights. This is the exact same way Rolling Stones record was set up, with Atlantic or Virgin being just mere distributors. So, the two parties that should pay credits to Taylor are Klein and Promopub/Musidor BV, not Decca, Atlantic, CBS or Virgin.
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There are two thing that I can imagine to be infuriating if I would be in Taylor's shoes. I don't understand why he keeps getting singled out for drugs problems he had in the past (is it because he has openly spoken about it ?)
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Well, here I think you do not understand me, and in general do not understand the general attitude of Stones fans towards Taylor. In no way I have ever intended to single him out for his drug addictions. Taylor will never be judged by me, and I feel by no other fan for his addictions. it is only a way to understand what happened after he left. Here he is, one of the greatest guitarists of all time, just out of the biggest band of all time, and what happens: nothing! Aside from a failed solo album, literally nothing happens between 1975 and 1983. A way to understand this -in my opinion- tragedy, is to understand that he was suffering and struggling with a drug addiction. His drug addiction was, in my understanding, one of the reasons that he was unable to create music and take up his live after the Stones. He is never condemned for it, it is only said in order to understand his situation. And, in all fairness, to this day it still weighs heavily upon Taylor’s shoulder and career.
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When they formed Rolling Stones Records (in 1970), it was decided that each bandmember would get exactly the same rights with regard to the proceeds from any of their activities. The only exception is of course publishing royalties, which were paid by the publishing company to the bandmembers that got an (official) credit on any of the compositions they released).
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For the Stones, this means that 80% of all royalty income is divided by Jagger and Richards, and the other 20% is divided between the five Stones (so 4% each). When on tour, all income is divided by 5. Wyman, Watts and Wood have all commented that this means that of huge albums like Sticky Fingers and Exile they earn fair amounts (huge amounts by our standard…), but Jagger and Richards earn incredible amounts, making them just plain filthy rich. Also, it earns the non-writing members of a ban a large sum of money in the year the album is released, after that the income will decrease to very low numbers, while the income for the authors will remain fairly high, is songs will be played on the radio etc.
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MT was being paid a healthy amount in artist royalties in the 70's. This had nothing to do with touring.
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Yes, he was paid a healthy amount, but nothing compared to the income of Jagger and Richards. In the early 70’s Taylor wasn’t a wealthy rock star by any means.
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(Jagger turned up at MT's doorstep, literally in tears. He repeatedly said to Mick: I wish I could fire him [KR], but I can't...).
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This I can not believe, as Jagger simply knows that 50% of his income is created by Keith. This is the same reason Watts and Wyman always have patiently waited for Keith all those years: he was their income.
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So if Taylor was not entitled to his 1/5 of the artist royalties, how come his earnings were substantial even when they were not touring.
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Because they weren’t. He wasn’t entitled to 1/5, and he never got rich on royalties. He got rich from touring with Stones.
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RSR is no longer the label that puts out Stones Records. First they signed a distribution deal with Atlantic Records (Atlantic made them an offer, while MT was still with the band). Later on they got even better (distribution) deals with labels like Columbia, CBS (Sony nowadays) before they went with Virgin. (Virgin has also bought the back catalogue). Each time they switched between labels, a lot of money changed hands and Taylor should have gotten his 1/5 from the "transfer sum".
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Sorry, again completely not true. The only business Taylor has is with Promopub BV, not with any record company. All the record companies you mention were only the distributors. Promopub should pay 4% of the net earnings per album he played on. If this is not the case, Taylor should sue the Stones and he will absolutely win.
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"Can Mick play with us?" Jagger looked embarassed and nervous. Just before they had to go on, he came over to Mick T and said: "Mick, I know what happened with your royalties... Don't worry, we'll get it sorted out".
Now why would he say that if they were not withholding his royalties ? Also, Keith has told MT: We owe you.
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Sorry, this was about completely something else: Wayne Perkins and Mick Taylor threatened to sue Promopub in order to receive credit for the work they did on Tattoo You. Promopub was advised to settle the deal outside of the courtroom, as all copies of Tattoo You had to be withdrawn as long as the legal action was not settled. Jagger agreed, and an undisclosed sum of money was paid to Taylor.
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Mick Taylor was never as broke as you want to make it sound in the early 80's. He secured himself a very good record deal (Keith was green with envy) and was paid an advance. The recordcompany wanted him to promote the album by visiting American radio stations while Taylor wanted to take a band on the road. He fullfilled his obligations, even though what he really wanted to do is put a new band together. The LP didn't become an instant commercial success. It didn't help that it was released at the height of the punk movement - nobody could have foreseen this. So that's probably why he didn't do much touring in 1980, the record company wasn't backing his plan to put a new band together. Not so strange that he needed some time to consider what to do next.
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Well, sorry, I just don’t believe it. Again, I have no intention to make Taylor sound like broke, singled out and on the ground or what ever. But the stories about the not-so-good wellbeing of Taylor in those years are just too manifold. There’s so many accounts of people who know him and worked with him that Taylor was in such a bad shape due to drug problems, it’s almost impossible not to be true. Again, I do not condemn Taylor, I don’t blame him, but knowing the truth helps to understand the situation.
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Last subject for today. According to MT himself the only guitar he ever sold in the 80's was a Telecaster that he didn't particularly like. There's just one other guitar he sold, a Les Paul Classic (re-issued model from the 90's), About 4 years ago he decided he wanted to replace it with a guitar that looked and sounded more like the one (Les Paul Standard '58 with Bigsby) that was stolen from him while on tour.
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Sorry, this is again not true. Ever since Taylor started touring again from about 86, he has played dozens of guitars, mainly Les Pauls, that all were either borrowed, or bought and sold later on again. And about the Les Paul’s: there’s just too many people confirming the story of why and how Taylor sold his LP’s in early 80’s that it is hardly impossible not to be true. And again, one of these LP’s has become a known LP in the collector circles. If you’re interested, I have a tape of Bob Dylan discussing Taylor, and he also mentions that he was amazed that Taylor sold all his gear.
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did not leave it on the train, someone (most likely it was someone that had been wating for his chance after recognising Taylor) was seen running off while Taylor was getting himself a cup of coffee. This can be confirmed by the person that was accompanying him that day (in '96). but was just too late to stop the thief.
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This can very well be the case. I have one newspaper clipping with an add asking for info on the guitar, and one aural remark from Taylor himself that “he left it on the train”. You’re version might very well be plausible.
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Taylor and Richards also used to share guitars, which can make it hard to follow what happened. Taylor has said in interviews it has always mystified him why Keith wanted to sell his (Bigsby equipped) Les Paul Standard in '67 (a few years later, he still seemed to like it). Unfortunately this guitar was not found back and re-united with its owner, after it got nicked from Nellcote.
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Yes it was. It has been for years in the possession of a very well known collector in London who was a friend of Chuch McGee, Alan Rogan and Pierre de Beauport. This means that the Stones must have known about this guitar being available again. I personally have told Taylor about this guitar being in the possession of this collector, but at that time he wasn’t interested in it anymore. The guitars went for sale through I belive Sotheby’s, and sold for $400.000
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If there are guitar traders that claim they have a vintage Les Paul that was once owned by Mick Taylor then they must have bought it from a third party. Maybe the person that paid the burglars/thieves for the instrument ?
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You do not understand the chronological order: 11 instruments were stolen at Nellcote, July 1971. These guitars were replaced by dozens of new ones, most of the bought at Gruhn in Nashville. The guitars BEFORE the burglary are known from the pre-1972 tours, the guitars after the burglary are known since the 1972 tour. The guitars Taylor sold in about ’81 are the ones he bought AFTER the burglary, the ones he used on the ’72 and ’73 tour.
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After the raid on Nellcote, Ian Stewart searched London music shops for weeks, hoping that some of guitars that were stolen would turn up eventually (a few did).
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No, not one did turn up. It wasn’t until the early 90’s that some guitars turned up –Keith’s painted LP Custom, Keith’s Flying V, Taylors/Richards LP with Bigsby and the prototype of the Dan Armstrong guitar. Also, some of Brian Jones guitars, stolen shortly after his death, started to show up. These guitars emerged from the underground to the serious collectors. At the moment the original owners do not take legal action, the trade becomes legal.
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The Les Paul SG (with Bigsby) Taylor already owned when he was with the Bluesbreakers is the same one he gave to Robin Millar (talk about generosity) after he left the Stones. I believe that's the guitar that's on the cover of Get Yer Ya Ya's Out.
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Taylor has stated in various interviews that he regretted very much his Mayall’ years guitars were stolen at Nellcote. This always seemed very plausible to me, as the SG has never been seen anymore after July 1971. If Taylor now states he gave it away, then I guess that must be the truth, and I was wrong.
I hope you understand that I have by no means any intention to spread any rumors, gossip are down right lies about MT’s personal live. To this day, Mick Taylor’s playing is my main inspiration in music, and I guess he will always be. But I do hope we will once have the truth about the guitars of the Stones, the guitars that inspired me to play guitar from the beginning.
Mathijs
Ps: I would really like to know what YOUR take is on what happened with the two Les Paul guitars he used on the ’72 and ’73 tour. Where are the now according to you?