ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ChrisM: This one Mathijs? I thought it was
> Keith's:
> [i4.tinypic.com]

I don't believe it! I have missed this for 20 years! Notice the stripe, notice the missing tip of the pickup selector. Taylor was playing Keith's LP for the '73 Euro tour!

I know a guy in the US who just saw his guitar increase about $200.000 in value.....

Mathijs

Wow! You mean you didn't know? I'm shocked, shocked! This guitar as you know was used by Keith throughout the '72 tour but so far as I know he didn't use it for the '73 tour (or any Les Paul Standard, correct me if I'm wrong Mathijs) I wonder if Mick bought it from him or Keith gave it to him? Also the '72 tour marked the last ime Keith used Bursts on stage. (again, correct me if I'm wrong) The only other tour where I know he played one was on the 1994 tour during Satisfaction and that was a Murphy aged reissue. I wonder why he abandoned them? I'd love to talk to the guy on the LP forum who has this guitar now. Can you name names Mathijs?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-02 04:35 by ChrisM.

EXILE - Dominique Tarle



ROCKMAN

Sorry about the quality, but here's Jagger in Jamaica 72,
is it Taylor's guitar this one?

Eric...Anymore of these shots from
Dynamic Sound Studio?..would love to see em all.

Please where you find?



ROCKMAN

Mick Taylor during the recording of John Mayalls - Blues From Laurel Canyon
Recorded at Decca Studios, West Hampstead, London between August 26th and 28th, 1968


Dominique Tarle



ROCKMAN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-02 06:14 by Rockman.

Rockman, just a minute....
nice snaps, you too!

Rockman, here's a link to the page, one have to sign in to get good quality photos. [www.urbanimage.tv];

I can't remember exactly what I searched for to find this page....but it was something with "flynn" and "stout", hoping to find some TMOQ covers penned by Stout.
I know I've seen "in like Flynn, out like Stout" somewhere

Mick Taylor possibly playing with John Mayall Band - 1967/68..Dominque Tarle



ROCKMAN

wow, brilliant discoveries, great photos - thanks gentlemen! i am proud of you all.
and the cat who just earned $200,000 ought to offer ChrisM some kind of reward. :E

meanwhile Mathijs pointed out something interesting about Mick T's Tele in this shot i sent to him -
for now i'll just post the shot and move out of the way so he can point out the noteworthy detail.


- Saville Theatre dec 14 1969, courtesy APL/Lovelace

Well, it struck me yesterday when you send me the picture: Taylor's Telecaster has a Stratocaster neck! And the only other person I have ever seen with such a configuration was Clapton with Blind Faith, who played a '62 Custom Tele with a Strat neck. It must have been fashionable in the day, and maybe Clapton and Taylor had some communication about it.

Also notice the stacks of HiWatt amps, the amps they originally wanted to bring to the US Tour of 1969, but didn't pass US Customs. Ampeg was the only amp manufacturer in the US with amps big enough for the Stones, so the Stones choose Ampeg to bring the amps. History was made, and for the entire 70's a band wasn't a band if you didn't have banks of Ampegs on stage. If US Customs approved of the HiWatt shipment, HiWatt would have been the number one choice for rock bands!

Mathijs

And to Rockman: I really wouldn't mind you posting more from that Exile book!

Mathijs

OK Mathijs...I'll see what other Taylor shots I can glue up for ya...


EXILE - Dominique Tarle



ROCKMAN

EXILE - Dominique Tarle



ROCKMAN

EXILE - Dominique Tarle



ROCKMAN

Man, how I LOVE those shots in the studio with the wires, with "Richards" stenciled on a case, with Keith sitting there w/o shirt and Jagger blowing. Knowing now that those tapes were in such a bad state that it wasn't even sure they were salvageable. And knowing Exile became what it is. How I would love those books "Exile" and TOTA.
Great shots btw from the Dynamic Studio sessions. It is always so exciting to find a new set of shots that have been so far completely unseen. By me.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

EXILE - Dominique Tarle



ROCKMAN

(Thanks to SSSSoul, ChrisM, Mathijs, Chelsea, Rockman and everybody else who comment on this beautiful and informative threads! They are part of the "IORR Heritage" and therefore they should be saved and somewhat put into the archives, IMHO.)

I have seen the pic of Keith with the sunburst LP, from the 1972 Tour about a thousand times (it appears on the STP 7CD boxset inlay, even!) but NEVER in my whole life would I have checked the flametop to compare it with the guitar played the next year! It's amazing!!!

Thanks again, and beautiful pics, BTW!!

[There'll be no wedding today...]

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-24 01:23 by Erik_Snow.

Chelsea Drugstore,
He never sold any guitars to keep the dope coming. First of all, he lost several guitars when Nellcote was raided in the South of France in '71.

In case you're interested Mathijs: He gave the Les Paul SG he owned to his brother-in-law (the producer Robin Millar), as a wedding present. He went to America to promote his solo record and there was a burglary at his house (a remote place in Devon, near Dartmoore National Park) in his absence. The house was almost completely emptied out.
Later on, another of his favourite Les Pauls ('58 LP Standard, I think it was) was stolen on tour.
A good thing then, that Taylor was never the kind of guy that was obsessive about having a vast collection of guitars.

Also, two of Taylor's houses went up in flames, something like that might slightly change your perspective on the importance of material possessions. The first fire in London happened around the time of Mick's departure from the band (after he announced he was leaving). His wife Rose woke him up in the middle of the night, flames were already coming from under the door. They escaped by the skin of the teeth because they managed to climb out of the window with just the clothes they had on.
The phrase "Nobody leaves the Rolling Stones alive" was something that Marshall Chess invented (it was less than six years after Brian Jones was found on the bottom of his swimmingpool and it was actually meant as a threat). Keith liked the sound of it, so he took it over and pretended he came up with it first.

The second fire took place just a couple years later, after they'd moved to the country. Taylor was not present and the house burned down to the ground. In both cases, the suspected cause was arson.

Mathijs, it's all very well that you take an interest in what kind of guitars Keith and Mick T have played over the years, but for someone that doesn't know anything about the man's personal life you're making way too many assumptions.

Almost immediately after Mick T left the Stones, they cut him off from all the artist royalties generated by the records he helped to create while with the band. It was illegal what they did but that didn't matter to them.
The financial hardship Taylor endured was not the result of him wasting it on drugs. The Stones froze his assets and Taylor had to seek legal advice (heavy-weight lawyers with matching fees).

Taylor helped to make some of their best records. They had not toured for several years before the '69 tour. They knew Stadium Rock had arrived and they needed a guitarist of MT's calibre otherwise there would be no way they could compete with bands like Led Zeppelin.
They had wanted to get rid of Allen Klein for a while when Mick T joined.
After the release of Get Your Ya Ya's out, they formed their own business stucture (with different subcompanies based in Amsterdam) and founded their own label Rolling Stones Records. Taylor had become one of the five company directors. So there were some serious legal issues with them acting like his entitlement to his 1/5 share of the royalties had suddenly ended.

Despite the treatment he received from his old bandmates (and their business advisors), Taylor was still not broke.
Not long after leaving the band, he flew to NYC to have a meeting with CBS (Ahmet Ertegun at Atlantic had already made him an offer). Upon return to London he popped by at the studio to see his old friends. Keith was fuming with anger when he heard that Taylor had secured himself a better deal than the rest of the Stones together.
The second half of the 70's, Taylor worked with different people like Jack Bruce, Pierre Moerlen, John Phillips (Pay Pack and Follow album plus the score for movie The Man who Fell to the Earth, starring David Bowie).
The Jack Bruce project was disbanded after about a year, and Taylor thought he might as well develop and record his own musical ideas. He finished work on his solo album two years later. The record company then wanted him to promote the new LP in America. So after the release ('79) a "down and out" Taylor went to live on the East Coast and actually moved into the house on Long Island where The Great Gatsby was filmed.

Once again, his new place was not financed by the royalty cheques he kept finding in his postbox.
Anyone seen the movie?
I think Mathijs should definitely watch it. Not such a shabby place for "a guy who's broke and has to sell guitars to fuel his drug addiction"..?*

Just to refresh your memory, here is what you stated on page 1 of this thread:

---------------------
Re: Mick T's Guitars
Posted by: Mathijs (IP Logged)
Date: July 1, 2006 13:18
Taylor sold all his guitars in the early 80's to sustain his drug addiction. The '73 Euro guitar is now owned by a member of the LP forum.
---------------------

*(Not such a shabby place. That's what Keith must have thought also. A couple of years later, Anita and Keith split up, and Keith decided to look for a house on the East Coast. Guess who he called up ?)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-05 17:25 by Stranger.

Interesting Thread "Stranger"..

You know your stuff.. - Wonder if that's still the "main" reason the Stones
won't let Taylor back in.. even for one show??

MLC

So there must be some legal exposure that Taylor can some day bring down the glimmers right since he was 1/5 of rolling stones records and royalties were due him and with the stones changing record companies etc.

I guess we can all wait for his book and what went down in the stones camp.

OpenG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So there must be some legal exposure that Taylor
> can some day bring down the glimmers right since
> he was 1/5 of rolling stones records and royalties
> were due him and with the stones changing record
> companies etc.
>
> I guess we can all wait for his book and what went
> down in the stones camp.

Fact is that MT did not sue the stones.

This can mean only that

1) the story is not true, or
2) they have settled the matter to MT's satisfaction

C

He Stranger,

Nice read! You sound a bit like Taylor's girlfriend from Groningen (I forgot her name, Marlies or something), but here's what I know:


-------------------------------------------------------
> In case you're interested Mathijs: He gave the Les
> Paul SG he owned to his brother-in-law (the
> producer Robin Millar), as a wedding present.

It might very possiblly true he gave a guitar to Robin Millar, but NOT the Bigsby SG he played from '68 until 71. This SG was stolen at Nellcote, as stated by Taylor (and Richards) himself in various interviews.

> Later on, another of his favourite Les Pauls ('58
> LP Standard, I think it was) was stolen on tour.

I know of one LP "stolen" on tour, and that was a '58 LP with Bigsby. It wasn't actualy stolen, Taylor had left it in a train in England in the early '90's.

> Also, two of Taylor's houses went up in flames,
> something like that might slightly change your
> perspective on the importance of material
> possessions.

It really doesn't matter what MY perspective is on material possesions. Anyhow, I am not interested in Taylor's personal live (nor in the personal lives of any of the other Stones), and (maybe therefore) I have never heard of fires at his house.

> Mathijs, it's all very well that you take an
> interest in what kind of guitars Keith and Mick T
> have played over the years, but for someone that
> doesn't know anything about the man's personal
> life you're making way too many assumptions.

Please read all the posts about guitars of the Stones -there is not one statement from me about the personal live of any of the Stones, except for the one about Taylor selling his guitars in the early 80's. I will get to that later on.

> Almost immediately after Mick T left the Stones,
> they cut him off from all the artist royalties
> generated by the records he helped to create while
> with the band. It was illegal what they did but
> that didn't matter to them.

> The Stones
> froze his assets and Taylor had to seek legal
> advice (heavy-weight lawyers with matching fees).
> So there
> were some serious legal issues with them acting
> like his entitlement to his 1/5 share of the
> royalties had suddenly ended.

First, the Stones never cut Taylor of from any royalties. Second, Taylor has never ever sued the Stones. Third, Taylor has no right to 1/5 of the royalties. Taylor has the right to 1/3 of 20% of the royalties of he songs he co-wrote (Ventilator Blues), and to this day get SENA royalties from the albums he plays on, which is not very much (SENA rights won't make you a rich man, contrary to writing royalties). It might be unbelievable, but if Charlie, Bill or Mick Taylor would have left the Stones in the mid-70's by all standard they wouldn't have left as rich as you and me might expect they would. For the non-writing members, the only real way to make money is (and still is for Wood and Watts) is touring.

> Despite the treatment he received from his old
> bandmates (and their business advisors), Taylor
> was still not broke.

> The second half of the 70's, Taylor worked with
> different people like Jack Bruce, Pierre Moerlen,
> John Phillips (Pay Pack and Follow album plus the
> score for movie The Man who Fell to the Earth,
> starring David Bowie).

It is widely known that after the failure with Jack Bruce Taylor became a heroin addicted recluse, hardly playing at all. For most of '76 to '79, Taylor was completely missing in action, with very, very sparse contributions. After his 1979 album failed to make any commercial succes, Taylor again went in hiding for 1980 (doing absolutely nothing!) and most of 1981, to return to the stage in October 1981 to do a short tour with Alvin Lee. There's many of stories about Taylor during the "missing years", how he spent months at home being totally addicted. Even Taylor has been quite frank in interviews about these years.

Taylor sold several of his guitars in late '80 or early '81. There's statements of various people who were around at the time confiming this story, among them Bill Wyman and Bob Dylan, as well as various widely known guitar traders (Bob Gruhn and Tom Wheeler for example). As the LP's he sold were very valuable at the time it is a quite known fact that Taylor sold them, and as the guitars are worth $250.000 each today, there's an entire family of collectors. One of the collectors (quite widely known as he has one of the largest LP's collections on the world) has one of the LP's of Taylor.

I have absolutely no clue on the financial position of Taylor, nor on his personal live. All I know that his live seems to go with ups and downs. Bill Wyman has stated that when Taylor visited him to play on his solo album in 1996 Taylor was completely down and out, and had sold all his equipment and was without any money at all. Wood told the press in 2002 that when Taylor visited the Stones in London Taylor mentioned that he was broke, and that he could use some money.

What's the point of this all? I personally really don't care about Taylor's personal live. He's a guitar god to me, and that's all that counts. The widely known reason why his Les Paul's dissapeared after 1980 was that he sold them as he was completely down and out, which I find very, very tragic for such a tremendous musician.

Mathijs

Mathijs,

You make some good points also.. From my discussions to people close to Taylor,
I got the impression he is/was having money problems (he's not pulling in enough)

Remember reading a statement from Taylor saying he get's periodic royalties from
Allen Klein and Taylor doesn't think Klein is that bad of a guy?

Again guess we'll have to wait on Taylor writing a book to get his side of things, just wish these guys could "bury the hachett" and the Stones let Taylor
sit-in for one night!!

MLC

Back to the manin topic concerning Mick's guitars. I was curious to know more about the Sunburst that Keith used during the '72 tour and which was later used by Mick druing the '73 tour. Mathijs, do you have anymore information? Serial number, photos, guitar's nickname, if any, and so on? The fact that the guitar was used extensively by both Keith and Mick makes it a guitar of no little historical interest!

ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back to the manin topic concerning Mick's guitars.
> I was curious to know more about the Sunburst that
> Keith used during the '72 tour and which was later
> used by Mick druing the '73 tour. Mathijs, do you
> have anymore information? Serial number, photos,
> guitar's nickname, if any, and so on? The fact
> that the guitar was used extensively by both Keith
> and Mick makes it a guitar of no little historical
> interest!

Well, they are different guitars! Keith's was a '56 or '57 with a maple neck. He used it throughout the '70's, up to the Barbarians, and then it dissapears. Taylor's was a '59 with rosewood board. I have 2 or 3 pics, and that's it, I don't know anything more. I even doubt Taylor ever used it with the Stones (although he did play Dance Little Sister on a Strat).

Mathijs

Hmmmm, Mathijs, it seems that we are talking about two different guitars. I was referring the Sunburst Les Paul that had the distinctive flame pattern in the middle of the upper part of the body and which is mentioned at the top of thread an earlier. Sounds like you talking about a Sunburst Strat. I should have been more clear in my post.

Does anyone know what is the acoustic guitar in the Exile book picture above?

Also, has Taylor talked about his acoustic guitars at all?

That's definety a Gibson but I need to double check the model. I have never seen a photo of him playing a guitar during Sweet Virginia so I'm not certain what model he used but I remember that he used a D-28 for most of his acoustic needs.