Pietro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the USA, soccer is a sport played mostly by
> upper middle class girls and immigrants from
> Mexico.
>
.................spoken like a true ignorant bigot.

Every restaurant with a bar and a TV has been tuned in to the World Cup games that I have seen, and doing record business as a result. Give soccer players this much, at least they don't grab their balls and spit tobacco on themselves the way baseball players do.

I went to the Braves game last night and the free food and open bar in the 755 club made for a great evening, but baseball truly is a dreadfully boring game. The Braves really suck this year as well.

Until EVERYBODY learns that commenting on the average American, or German, or Italian, or Frenchman, or... (particularlly without any real knowledge of which one speaks) is just ignorant, this planet will never get any better.And what is possible will remain impossible. Which is our collective own fault.

Jump on top of me now in true internet style.

Rip This Wrote:
I think maybe a little
> encouragement to motivate interest in the game
> might be a better tact rather than calling us
> "football stupid"..........

please feel free to point out where I said or implied that.....

I beleive this is your quote:

The US seems to be the only country on earth that - in general - doesnt 'get it' when it comes to the game having a mass appeal

to me "get it" in this context (when reading your entire reply) implies that we aren't able to grasp the subtle nuiances of a spirited low scoring soccer match, understand it's complexities, etc..etc...etc.....your speaking in generalities and implying that we're stupid even though you didn't use those words..........and your not the only one (so don't take it personally). I think if you all are so good at the sport, then teach us to play better. I thought we did OK against Italy even though we didn't win the game

i know, but with Arabia Saudi, Costa Rica, Togo, USA, are the worst teams in this tournament...even France!!!, i really think Uruguay or Colombia should play the world cup instead USA.

Rip This Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Further more, Americans don't have a fixation with
> scoring...........what ridiculous generalities and
> stereotypes are we bullshitting about
> here....baseball games for example are often 1-0
> 3-1 affairs..........

I'd sign for 3-1 final score in any football match... LOL!

I think maybe a little
> encouragement to motivate interest in the game
> might be a better tact rather than calling us
> "football stupid"..........Go England!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you should have in mind that the rest of the world probably don't give a shit if americans like football or not...

We were only commenting in a good mood why could be that people from the US seem to not follow football like the rest of the world, but you seem to heve taken it like an attack to your independence... (I know we are talking in general terms and that is not scientific, as there are millions of people in the US who follow the World Cup, but for sure the ambience over there is not the same as in Europe, Argentina or Brazil, for example, where footbal is no.1 sport).

[There'll be no wedding today...]

um...........excuse me Bruno dear.........but thanks.....I rest my case.

Rip This Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I beleive this is your quote:
>
> The US seems to be the only country on earth that
> - in general - doesnt 'get it' when it comes to
> the game having a mass appeal
>
> to me "get it" in this context (when reading your
> entire reply) implies that we aren't able to grasp
> the subtle nuiances of a spirited low scoring
> soccer match, understand it's complexities,
> etc..etc...etc.....

nope...I meant it more as a cultural thing, which is based on taste and choice -not down to stupidity or ignorance. At no time did I suggest you were 'unable' to understand it.


your speaking in generalities
> and implying that we're stupid even though you
> didn't use those words..........and your not the
> only one (so don't take it personally). I think if
> you all are so good at the sport, then teach us to
> play better. I thought we did OK against Italy
> even though we didn't win the game

uh...if you care to read my first post in the thread, I actually defended the US team's ability somewhat against what I thought was a pretty insulting initial post. The American team is one of the highest ranked sides in the world and to play in their 5th successive World Cup is an achievement not to be sniffed at.


But hey, if you want to twist an innocent observation that we have cultural differences when it comes to sport and a statement saying your national team isnt too bad into some "implied" insult on your entire country and Americans' intellectual capabilities, feel free



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-23 21:10 by Gazza.

There is a lot for sport fans to choose from in the U.S.
American football is number 1, baseball and basketball follow with ice hockey a distant fourth (although very popular in our northern regions & Canada)
Football and basketball are huge at the professional and college levels.
No one can follow all of this, except a few who have no other life, so we need to choose.
As mentioned above, soccer is the number 1 sport for kids to play. U.S. soccer does a good job spotting talented kids and getting them into higher level leagues at an early age. Soccer loses some of these kids to football and basketball in high school where they get much more recognition. But U.S. soccer will get better over time as the pool of talented players 18 and over continues to grow.
Pro soccer in the U.S. is not stable enough to develop a large fan base. Players and even teams change all the time. And looking at other countries, it is hard for us to understand the club system where the good players play. If there was best club teams in the world played each other every year in an end of the year tournament for best team in the world, I think America would watch almost as much as the World Cup. We like the idea of competition to prove who is number 1. Two years ago a lot of people watched the Europe Cup. The World Cup being only every four years will make it so that it will take decades before soccer is a huge spectator sport in the U.S. By that time maybe the U.S. will have the talent to really be a top 5 team.
This year no one really expected the U.S. to do much. Tough group. "Reward" for being number 2 would be playing Brazil. The U.S. definitely played worse than expected but it is not something that will cause anyone outside of the U.S. soccer organization to lose any sleep over.
The U.S. will continue to watch the World Cup even though the U.S. is not in it.
Should be some good games coming up.

Ok, there are many here who know much more about the sport than I do, but it is clear that Sender just isn't very bright. The US team is not bad by any stretch. They have beaten Mexico several times, they beat Brasil, they were cheated out of a win against Italy & they were cheated out of a tie with Ghana (and yes, I think if Argentina had been playing those games, the refs would not have made those absurd calls). Therefore, to say the US is a bad team is the comment of a non fan of the sport. While the US should not be ranked #5 (as they are by FIFA), they probably should be in the top 10.

As to why Americans don't "get it", a big part is the lack of scoring...a reason that hockey isn't VERY popular here either. Another big one is the faking of injuries that seems to be constant in soccer. Americans have a sense of machismo in that we look at soccer players as pansies or girly men. They get breathed on & they roll around like their legs were just sawed off. American men just do not respect the players as the players present themselves as more fragile than 5 year old girls. Further, this tactic is used to waste time rather than play the game (ie run out the clock when you have a lead). This too is looked at as borderline cheating. Fair or unfair, these are some reasons it isn't so popular here...we see baseball/football/basketball/hockey players become a bloody mess & keep playing. We see soccer players cry & whine & fake injury constantly...so it's hard to respect them as men.

My wife is Argentine & we have been discussing this next issue quite a bit lately. Soccer is called "the beautiful game"...but what is beautiful about it? Riots in Europe, an actual war in central America, U.S. team clearly being singled out by the refs to not win, etc. When the US goes to central America, they have blood, needles & razors thrown at them. Parades outside their hotel at all hours of the night for no reason other than to keep them from sleeping. They are given crap locker rooms, when good ones are available. I see no beauty in the sport, there seems to be no sense of sport or fair play. After seeing an ESPN special on the racism in the Italian & Spanish leagues, and how nothing is done about it, it is clearer that this is not a beautiful game. If the game is beautiful, it turns ugly every time it is played. Italy & Spain should be ashamed as nations at the fascist nazi behaviour by MANY of their fans, not just a few bad ones. My wife was not allowed to go see Boca when they played as her parents were afraid of violence. Here in the US, when the US plays Mexico, Mexicans throw M-80s (very powerful firecrackers) at US fans which could blow off your foot. Soccer may be popular, but it seems that it is loved by very few. It has become a nationalistic or regionalistic (pro soccer) event where the worst people come out & show just how poorly their parents raised them. A beautiful game? I'd say it's the ugliest of all games...which is too bad, b/c many of the players seem to want it to be pure & beautiful. World Cup? If the powerhouse countries had any integrity, they would boycott it until the game is cleaned up...but then again...it's not really about sport is it?

Gazza Wrote:
> nope...I meant it more as a cultural thing, which
> is based on taste and choice -not down to
> stupidity or ignorance. At no time did I suggest
> you were 'unable' to understand it.
>
>
> your speaking in generalities
> > and implying that we're stupid even though you
> > didn't use those words..........and your not
> the
> > only one (so don't take it personally). I think
> if
> > you all are so good at the sport, then teach us
> to
> > play better. I thought we did OK against Italy
> > even though we didn't win the game
>
> uh...if you care to read my first post in the
> thread, I actually defended the US team's ability
> somewhat against what I thought was a pretty
> insulting initial post. The American team is one
> of the highest ranked sides in the world and to
> play in their 5th successive World Cup is an
> achievement not to be sniffed at.
>
>
> But hey, if you want to twist an innocent
> observation that we have cultural differences when
> it comes to sport and a statement saying your
> national team isnt too bad into some "implied"
> insult on your entire country and Americans'
> intellectual capabilities, feel free


Your observation wan't so innocent, even though you do defend the American team; no I am not insulted. But the implied observations speak in generalities and that is unfair. All I'm saying is give the team a chance......at least you have gone to some lengths to do so.....maybe others should too.

The majority of the US public don't care about this sport. I am a sports fan and don't care about the World Cup or how the U.S. does. That is just me. I do know that every where else it is huge and respect that.

All I see in the beautiful game is ugliness.

SeNdEr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And please dont come back, you are horrible,
> really, please play basketball you are great but
> not soccer!!


U R AN IDIOT

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rip This Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I beleive this is your quote:
> >
> > The US seems to be the only country on earth
> that
> > - in general - doesnt 'get it' when it comes to
> > the game having a mass appeal
> >
> > to me "get it" in this context (when reading
> your
> > entire reply) implies that we aren't able to
> grasp
> > the subtle nuiances of a spirited low scoring
> > soccer match, understand it's complexities,
> > etc..etc...etc.....
>
> nope...I meant it more as a cultural thing, which
> is based on taste and choice -not down to
> stupidity or ignorance. At no time did I suggest
> you were 'unable' to understand it.
>
>
> your speaking in generalities
> > and implying that we're stupid even though you
> > didn't use those words..........and your not
> the
> > only one (so don't take it personally). I think
> if
> > you all are so good at the sport, then teach us
> to
> > play better. I thought we did OK against Italy
> > even though we didn't win the game
>
> uh...if you care to read my first post in the
> thread, I actually defended the US team's ability
> somewhat against what I thought was a pretty
> insulting initial post. The American team is one
> of the highest ranked sides in the world and to
> play in their 5th successive World Cup is an
> achievement not to be sniffed at.
>
>
> But hey, if you want to twist an innocent
> observation that we have cultural differences when
> it comes to sport and a statement saying your
> national team isnt too bad into some "implied"
> insult on your entire country and Americans'
> intellectual capabilities, feel free

Hey Gazza,

Since feelings are hurt here, as an apology I think you should mail out soccer balls to all Americans responding on this thread !

I did read your first post and it sums things up well I think.

Like I said previously, kicking the soccer ball about is pretty cool, but nothing beats a blizzard in Cleveland at Browns Stadium in the winter.

Rip This Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> > nope...I meant it more as a cultural thing,
> which
> > is based on taste and choice -not down to
> > stupidity or ignorance. At no time did I
> suggest
> > you were 'unable' to understand it.
> >
> >
> > your speaking in generalities
> > > and implying that we're stupid even though
> you
> > > didn't use those words..........and your not
> > the
> > > only one (so don't take it personally). I
> think
> > if
> > > you all are so good at the sport, then teach
> us
> > to
> > > play better. I thought we did OK against
> Italy
> > > even though we didn't win the game
> >
> > uh...if you care to read my first post in the
> > thread, I actually defended the US team's
> ability
> > somewhat against what I thought was a pretty
> > insulting initial post. The American team is
> one
> > of the highest ranked sides in the world and to
> > play in their 5th successive World Cup is an
> > achievement not to be sniffed at.
> >
> >
> > But hey, if you want to twist an innocent
> > observation that we have cultural differences
> when
> > it comes to sport and a statement saying your
> > national team isnt too bad into some "implied"
> > insult on your entire country and Americans'
> > intellectual capabilities, feel free
>
>
> Your observation wan't so innocent,

you can read my mind, now? Yes - it was.

even though
> you do defend the American team; no I am not
> insulted. But the implied observations speak in
> generalities and that is unfair.

Nothing is "implied". Simply a statement that different countries have different cultures - which I doubt you would disagree with - theres no comment that one is 'better' or 'worse' than the other. Different strokes for different folks. What 'works' for you may not work for me - and vice versa.

All I'm saying is
> give the team a chance......at least you have gone
> to some lengths to do so.....

thank you

maybe others should
> too.


Agreed.

Im Thanking My God as we speak that My Country is out. That means it will be even harder to mainstream this Game in the US.

virgil,

Well said!!!

livewithme Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pro soccer in the U.S. is not stable enough to
> develop a large fan base. Players and even teams
> change all the time. And looking at other
> countries, it is hard for us to understand the
> club system where the good players play.

I have happy memory of New York Cosmos world tour in the late-seventies.
Cosmos at that time seemed to aim at Real Madrid today.
It had Giorgio Chinaglia, Carlos Alberto, Franz Beckenbauer, Johan Neeskens and Pelé. Good old days.

i dont know why americans hates soccer, but in Argentina we are horrible in baseball so we dont play it...and if USA plays soccer horrible so dont do it, its simple, i dont want to be bad with this thread but i think Uruguay, Colombia, Hungary, Belguim or Scotland should play the world cup instead USA, thats all because they are better...

Sender, you are so ignorant! sos una verguenza .. yo tambien soy argentino y das pena realmente... quien te crees que sos para decirle a los norteamericanos que no juegen al futbol??? y porque? porque no ganan el mundial?? anda a cagar! con ese criterio los argentinos nunca deberian haber jugado al basket porque cuando empezaron eran unos crotos..ahora son campeones del mundo!... SOS LO PEOR DE LA ARGENTINA... METETE TU ARROGANCIA EN EL CULO! y mas: APRENDE A ESCRIBIR EN INGLES PORQUE NO SE TE ENTIENDE UN CORNO!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-24 06:57 by stoned_in_dc.

no es arrogancia, solo creo que merecen estar otros paises, como creo que ni Arabia ni Togo deberian estar hasta que tengan un status de profesional como el futbol europeo o latinoamericano, en USA aman el basket y baseball, es como si fueramos nosotros a jugar el superbowl o algo parecido, nada que ver, Uruguay se merece la plaza mas que USA seguro, no es arrogancia, solo que ABURRE y mucho ver partidos como USA-Ghana y que encima pierda, es un mundial y deben ir los mejores.- Sorry my bad english...

SeNdEr,

I have the feeling that you already see Argentina as the winner of the WC
It is often said that French are pretentious and arrogant.
So I wonder if you don't have French origins ? LOL !

no, i think we will lost with Germany if we can win against Mexico. sorry my bad english.

My wife is Argentine & feels that SENDER is a bigot who makes her country look bad. SENDER, you're a disgrace to Argentina...and a bad human being.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-24 20:14 by sdstonesguy.

P.S. I will never understand how BV allows this crap & even defends it with "just ignore it if you don't like it but don't attack people". It does seem very accepted here to speak against America & Americans...maybe next someone will start talking about Jews or Blacks...I wonder if that too will be accepted...

Some people don't show any respect for others. Sad fact. Please edit your post and remove whatever was posted in disrespect. Thank you. PS. Posting in disrespect or otherwise insulting others is of course aganst the IORR policy.

Bjornulf