Well, it's fairly easy to put a new covering on an amp. Someone who is really skilled can probably make it look a bit old and weathered too. So don't make too many conclusions based on the appearance.



If you peer right inside the new looking amp you will see a rather weathered looking sticker - a detail I doubt that any one would bother with if recovering an amp, especially if no real effort had been put into weathering the tweed. So could it be that the liver coloured amp has been recovered with tweed? This would no doubt require the speakers to be removed so there would be no surprise if they were put back in a different way round.

On the other hand, I'm sure Keith has enough amps to throw in something entirely different if that's what he feels like.

i believe you're right open g. 00003 is the non tweed. regarding wear, this model and really all models don't wear near as bad as the cloth tweed covers, although you can see the wood on the inside is clearly old. cheers....

The sticker is NOT from the new amp, but from the liver-coloured vintage amp. The new amp is totally new, without a doubt.

The speakers can never be celestion speakers. Celestion speakers are British speakers with a British sound. Fender used Jensen speakers from Chicago, and they sound truly American. The speakers in these amps are all new, and I bet they are something specials as there is no label on them. They could be anything really, like EVM or old Altec Lansings. But they are not Celestions, and most probably not new Jensen's, as they sound nothing like the old ones

Mathijs

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>3) what is the effect pedal on the right? I have
> never seen that one before! <<
>
> Another question solved - It's a Zinky Master
> Blaster.
>
> "Master Blaster™ is designed for use with all
> styles of playing, is extremely quiet in
> operation, has a highly versatile tone control,
> and can be plugged directly into a variety of
> amplifiers. Most notedly, Master Blaster™ can add
> up to 9 dB of clean volume to an amp without
> coloring the tone in ANY way at all. Master
> Blaster™ can also be set to add a treble “shimmer”
> to the tone, or conversely, to “warm up” an overly
> bright tone. Master Blaster™ includes separate
> tone and volume controls, and a true bypass
> footswitch for on/off operation, all powered by a
> 9V battery or 9V power adaptor (included). The
> Master Blaster’s electronics are housed in a
> rugged brushed stainless steel case with eye
> catching graphics and a dazzling blue LED."
>
> [www.zinky.com]
>
> [www.zinky.com]


Great you've found the maker! I'll buy one!


Mathijs

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coocooforcoconuts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > the one with the keith graphics on the back is
> > serial number 00003. i have a photo of the
> inside
> > label but don't know how to post it.
>
> Here ya go - big thanks to you - wow
>
> [i20.photobucket.com]
> 3d1164665398-fender-twin-kr-m8-.jpg
>
> [i20.photobucket.com]
> 2d1164665398-fender-twin-kr-m8-.jpg

This "liver" coloured Twin is without a doubt NOT a vintage amp, and it is certainly equipped with Russion made Groove Tube valves. So, no expensive New Old Stock tubes for Keith, which is a big surprise for me!

Mathijs

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keith's amps from the back (wow, thats rare -
> thank you Gwen for finding the site)
> and the Fulltone TTE - Tube Tape Echo at Glasgow
> 2006.
>
> [i20.photobucket.com]
> toneRollingStonesGlasgow016.jpg


On top of the valve, there's the distinct Gt logo of Groove Tubes: so also in the '57 Twin Keith does not uses vintage valves/tubes.

Mathijs

Speakers in my opinion are Webers Silver Bell.....

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The speakers can never be celestion speakers.
> Celestion speakers are British speakers with a
> British sound. Fender used Jensen speakers from
> Chicago, and they sound truly American.

Are you serious?
That's not quite a "killer-arguement" is it?

The
> speakers in these amps are all new,

Yep, they look new.

> and I bet they
> are something specials as there is no label on them.

The label of my Celestion came off easy.
I've had Celestin Green Backs, where the cover consists of a green plastic whatnot.
You can use it as sourcer for a pot of plants, but there goes your label.
Maybe Keith and his technican actually consider Celestions as something special, and they have proofen to sound great.



> They could be anything really, like EVM or
> old Altec Lansings.

Nope, Electro Voice and Altec Lansing have a different chasis build.
The size of the magnet, the ventilation hole, how many spokes, painted or not - all that narrows the possible contenders down to a few.

Benon mentioned the Weber, that could be a possible contender - but only the Blue Dog Silver Bell Ceramic series.


> But they are not Celestions,
> and most probably not new Jensen's, as they sound
> nothing like the old ones
>
> Mathijs

There ya go talking about the sound again - but we've only just learned what Keith uses behind his amps.
I mean all those speakers don't sound like crap - they just sound different.
I'm still on the Celestion track.

I opened the back of my old amp and snapped my 2 Celestions - they must be about 20 years old, still going strong.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-27 17:34 by open-g.

I think there EVM'S and i thought his boost was a Brown sound but it is'nt i'll figure that one out though,it's hard to see.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The sticker is NOT from the new amp, but from the
> liver-coloured vintage amp. The new amp is totally
> new, without a doubt.
>
> The speakers can never be celestion speakers.
> Celestion speakers are British speakers with a
> British sound. Fender used Jensen speakers from
> Chicago, and they sound truly American. The
> speakers in these amps are all new, and I bet they
> are something specials as there is no label on
> them. They could be anything really, like EVM or
> old Altec Lansings. But they are not Celestions,
> and most probably not new Jensen's, as they sound
> nothing like the old ones
>
> Mathijs

Well, I was refering to the sticker on the inside of the new looking amp. If you look closely, it appears to be very worn and faded (yellow).

As regards speakers, I think they will be celestion speakers - why don't you think they are? They definitely are NOT jensens and I've not seen an altec lansing speaker that looks like that (although I don't know much about this company's speakers). Also doesn't look like any EVM or eminance speakers I know of.

From my experience of trying out different speakers, celestions are the best match for fender amps. I've messed around with both my old bassman and with my new blues deluxe. To my ears, fitting a celestion Greenback, Alnico blue or G12H is the best possible money you can spend on your tone once you have a fender valve amp. For less money than a stomp box you can drastically change your tone from the stock jensen or eminence. It's only my opinion but I don't think you need to get any special speakers apart from the classic celestions.

I might well be wrong about these but I just can't see what you are basing your opinion on. To be honest, I can't really tell the difference in the sound of speakers once the whole lot is mixed in with the rest of the band and is being pumped through all those eq and processing systems and then being mixed up by the stadium acoustics etc. If your telling me that you can tell from that mixed up sound that they are definately not celestions then I take my hat off to you! All I know is what sounds best on my Fender amps (OK, I don't have twin #003) and that is what my opinion is based on.

Well, they're certainly not Jensens.
I must admit they look more like heavy magnet Celestions than anything else to me.
The late Cesar Diaz is on record to the effect that Keith was using Celestions in his twins. That was a number of years ago...but may still be the case.
It's also conceivable of course that whatever speakers are used, they may have been re-built to altered specs by any one of a number of industry speaker gurus.
Only thec techs will know. I suspect Keith ain't all that interested so long as they sound right.

If Celestions could it be the Black Shadows made for Mesa/Boogie?I say that cause they are the speakers of Keef 4x12 Mesa/Boogie cabinets and also(i think) of the Mark II amps...if not which model?Celestions Vintage 30 maybe?



---------------------------------------------
Shattered !!!
---------------------------------------------

Now that makes sense, IMO - If Keith has been useing Celestions in his Mesa Boogie
cabinets - he may be biased to the good sound they have produced in the past.

yeah...I thought that if he likes Black Shadows on Boogie combo amps and has it also on Boogie cabinets...so he putted in the Fender Twins also

---------------------------------------------
Shattered !!!
---------------------------------------------

Looking at the pictures of your amp, open g, you can see that keef's magnets are bigger than yours. However, they seem to match the size of the black shadows pretty well so that could be it.

There could be a few reasons for that:

a) my speaker is old and coroded & doesn't show the black of the magnet as clear.
b) the angle and lens of my pic are different
c) it's a different Celestion type ( they have quite a variety)
d) you're right



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-29 03:31 by open-g.

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > The speakers can never be celestion speakers.
> > Celestion speakers are British speakers with a
> > British sound. Fender used Jensen speakers from
> > Chicago, and they sound truly American.
>
> Are you serious?
> That's not quite a "killer-arguement" is it?

No, it's not a killer-arguement, and I think you're right about them being Celestion's. At first I just couldn't believe they even could be Celestions, but I guess they are indeed.

Mathijs

By the way, on the first pae of this thread there's a picture of all three amps lined up next to eachother, the liver colored 0003 one, the new one, and the vintage one. The liver colored one looks indeed to be vintage, with a new tweed or tolex covering. The vintage one seems vintage, and the new one could be anything. It looks new, but keith has the money to buy anything in the world, so it could be a brand new vintage Twin.

Mathijs

I think we have a winner here:

>>
Thanks for the pictures, I believe the speakers are G12-80's that were issued in the late 70's. This was a premium speaker in its day and was a significant contribution to the rock sound of the 80's, as its tight bass and fluid treble worked very well with high gain amps giving great feel and fluidity to the hyper speed lead players that were exploding on to the scene. To get technical, they use a 1.75" diameter 8 ohm coil with a 50oz magnet, have a response from 75 to 5000Hz, and 99dB sensitivity (1W@1m). They are a good all rounder with lots of punch and bite, dynamic fluid treble, good mid presence and definition, but overall a slightly compressed sound. The G12-80 evolved in to the Classic Lead 80 which is still available.
>>

And in my own defense (I know I shouldn't do this...): Lead 80's are the roughly same as Mesa/Boogie C90's, and very close in sound to Black Shadows and EVM12L's. They are, for Celestion's, "American" sounding, in contrast to typical British crunch.

Mathijs

Hehe, ok.

Check this page - they could be simply Celestions G12H30 ....
[www.louisamps.com]

benon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check this page - they could be simply Celestions
> G12H30 ....
> [www.louisamps.com]

No, putting two in a '57 Twin means they would blow if you put the volume past five. Also the magnet and screw layout is different.

Also, the person stating which speakers are in Keith's amp is among the worlds most knowledgable persons when it comes to Celestion speakers, I do not doubt his judgement.

Mathijs

What about the Ampeg amps that they were known for in 69?

So which model of Celestions on Twins...the Black Shadows like I said?¿

---------------------------------------------
Shattered !!!
---------------------------------------------

Something Like that..we ain't entirely sure ;^).

I've tried popping a quite similar 80s G12H100 into a 6L6 Fender Deluxe that normally houses a Jensen C12N. I got some interesting results. It certainly had the right vibe. I might leave it in for a while and see how it goes.

Thanks to Stefano Hoochie Coochie Man from Italy, who posted some valuable info in a therad on Keith's set up that I started on a well known Italian site dedicated to guitars (accordo.it), we have some extra detail on the rack below the fulltone.

Refer to the pic above from fulltone's site.

The 4th from the top on the left side should be a Lexicon MXP100, a quite cheap multieffct.

The 2nd from the top on the right side seems to be an old ART valve preamp

Finally a IBANEZ UE400 multieffect was recognized.

C

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a great shot of the back of that amp! Now
> the questions are:
>
> 1) what type of tubes/valves are in them?
> 2) What speakers are in there?
> 3) what is the effect pedal on the right? I have
> never seen that one before!
>
> Mathijs


Mathijs, at least it prooves that the power tubes are no RCA tubes.
Looks like Groove Tubes or Sovtek or some kind of that with
red letter branding.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a great shot of the back of that amp! Now
> the questions are:
>
> 1) what type of tubes/valves are in them?
> 2) What speakers are in there?
> 3) what is the effect pedal on the right? I have
> never seen that one before!
>
> Mathijs


Mathijs, the pic with the serial number makes clear that
he uses Groove Tubes in his twin.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> open-g Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>3) what is the effect pedal on the right? I
> have
> > never seen that one before! <<
> >
> > Another question solved - It's a Zinky Master
> > Blaster.
> >
> > "Master Blaster™ is designed for use with all
> > styles of playing, is extremely quiet in
> > operation, has a highly versatile tone control,
> > and can be plugged directly into a variety of
> > amplifiers. Most notedly, Master Blaster™ can
> add
> > up to 9 dB of clean volume to an amp without
> > coloring the tone in ANY way at all. Master
> > Blaster™ can also be set to add a treble
> “shimmer”
> > to the tone, or conversely, to “warm up” an
> overly
> > bright tone. Master Blaster™ includes separate
> > tone and volume controls, and a true bypass
> > footswitch for on/off operation, all powered by
> a
> > 9V battery or 9V power adaptor (included). The
> > Master Blaster’s electronics are housed in a
> > rugged brushed stainless steel case with eye
> > catching graphics and a dazzling blue LED."
> >
> > [www.zinky.com]
> >
> > [www.zinky.com]
>
>
> Great you've found the maker! I'll buy one!
>
>
> Mathijs


Mathijs, I would have bet my ass you do ;-)) Have fun to experience the Keith
sound!

liddas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to Stefano Hoochie Coochie Man from Italy,
> who posted some valuable info in a therad on
> Keith's set up that I started on a well known
> Italian site dedicated to guitars (accordo.it), we
> have some extra detail on the rack below the
> fulltone.
>
> Refer to the pic above from fulltone's site.
>
> The 4th from the top on the left side should be a
> Lexicon MXP100, a quite cheap multieffct.
>
> The 2nd from the top on the right side seems to be
> an old ART valve preamp
>
> Finally a IBANEZ UE400 multieffect was recognized.
>
>
> C

Interesting, but how did Stefano get the details?
not by looking at this picture, hopefully?



Ibanez UE-400 is a 20-200$ piece from the 80s, and it's not known for its great sound^^

Doesn't really fit in the line of Zinky and Fulltone, IMO.
so I hope you can give us some more details.